EMR Class 360's

[43096]

I wonder what is the second-longest London commuter service that's standard class only...

In terms of distance or time? If time, then I'll give you Wokingham to Waterloo at 70 minutes or so - so actually longer than the poor down-trodden commuters of Wellingborough.

 

[Merle Haggard]

In terms of distance or time? If time, then I'll give you Wokingham to Waterloo at 70 minutes or so - so actually longer than the poor down-trodden commuters of Wellingborough.

Thanks, interesting; but NRES gives 55 minutes via Reading to Paddington...

 

[43096]

Thanks, interesting; but NRES gives 55 minutes via Reading to Paddington...

It may well do, but Waterloo is rather more convenient than Paddington for much of London - e.g. if you work in the city or at Canary Wharf it drops you straight on to the Waterloo & City/Jubilee lines. That rather negates the time difference.

 

[43102EMR]

It may well do, but Waterloo is rather more convenient than Paddington for much of London - e.g. if you work in the city or at Canary Wharf it drops you straight on to the Waterloo & City/Jubilee lines. That rather negates the time difference.

That will change once/if the Elizabeth Line becomes operational early next year.

 

[Roger B]

That will change once/if the Elizabeth Line becomes operational early next year.

But then it might be more preferable to change onto Elizabeth Line at Reading, cutting out the need for change at Paddington (and being more likely to find a seat). However that would also increase journey time - and with no first-class option, per the question posed by the OP.

 

[43102EMR]

But then it might be more preferable to change onto Elizabeth Line at Reading, cutting out the need for change at Paddington (and being more likely to find a seat). However that would also increase journey time - and with no first-class option, per the question posed by the OP.

IMHO I can’t see that many people riding the full length of the Elizabeth Line from Reading to Paddington unless they’re stopping at intermediate stations such as Langley or Taplow, but I could be wrong.

With regards to the 360s though, isn’t it still unconfirmed as to whether first class will be included post-refurbishment? It would look a bit out of place considering Thameslink stopping services from Bedford have first class on board.

 

[LowLevel]

First Class reinstatement is pending DfT decision making. First couple of reliveried units to be done at Northampton for the launch with the rest to follow.

 

[43102EMR]

First Class reinstatement is pending DfT decision making. First couple of reliveried units to be done at Northampton for the launch with the rest to follow.

Vinyled or repainted?

 

[LowLevel]

Vinyled or repainted?

Not sure. The quote was reliveried which doesn't give much of a clue. I assume paint if they can get that anti vandal blue off

 

[edwin_m]

First Class reinstatement is pending DfT decision making. First couple of reliveried units to be done at Northampton for the launch with the rest to follow.

A PR own goal when people board the shiny "new" train only to find it's a tatty old one.

 

[43096]

Not sure. The quote was reliveried which doesn't give much of a clue. I assume paint if they can get that anti vandal blue off

Given the lack of time between now and service start, I would think it would be sticky-back plastic. Similar to the launch of Airdrie-Bathgate in Scotland where a couple of 334s got ScotRail livery as vinyls for the launch, with all the 334s (including the two vinyled units) then getting a repaint when they went for refurbishment.

 

[43102EMR]

Not sure. The quote was reliveried which doesn't give much of a clue. I assume paint if they can get that anti vandal blue off

Sounds like a similar situation to the TfW franchise launch where 175003 and 107 received vinyls for the launch but are currently going in for repaints - will still be interesting to see regardless as minus 115, the 360/1s have been in the blue livery for too long!

 

[43055]

First Class reinstatement is pending DfT decision making. First couple of reliveried units to be done at Northampton for the launch with the rest to follow.

Thanks for the heads up. RTT currently have 2 paths in tomorrow and Friday from Northampton to Cricklewood.

Tuesday:
Realtime Trains - 5Q97 1043 Northampton Emd to Cricklewood Depot
Realtime Trains - 5Q31 1504 Northampton Emd to Cricklewood Depot
Friday:
Realtime Trains - 5Q97 1043 Northampton Emd to Cricklewood Depot
Realtime Trains - 5Q31 1504 Northampton Emd to Cricklewood Depot

 

[Helvellyn]

In terms of distance or time? If time, then I'll give you Wokingham to Waterloo at 70 minutes or so - so actually longer than the poor down-trodden commuters of Wellingborough.

The reason Wellingborough keeps being brought up is that it is the only station where the new Connect Service is being considered a downgrade. Outside of off-peak services being roughly every half hour there isn't much to celebrate.

• Loss of First Class;
• Loss of on-train catering;
• Loss of direct service to Leicester, Loughborough, Nottingham;
• Loss of one-change service to Derby, Chesterfield, Leeds;
• Promise of refurbished stock to InterCity standards unfilled with no date this will happen;
• Retention of InterCity pricing - it's a big jump in price versus fares from Bedford, or in comparison to other towns a similar distance from London.

It also affects more than Wellingborough which has a catchment area well within 10 miles of Rushden, Irchester, Higham Ferrers, Irthlingborough and Finedon (all of which incidentally had rail services in the past).

There is also a new 3,000 home plus new development to the East of the station. Part of the Stanton Cross plan included a new Eastern entrance to the station and a new 700 multi-storey car park. The developers agreed to this on the back of good North and South rail links. They are said locally to be rather hacked off at the new timetable, which removes some of the selling points.

Kettering at least moves to four trains per hour, two of which are non-stop to/from St Pancras whilst Corby gets a doubling of its service.


To come back on topic if the initial plan is to use 360s in pairs due to lower demand hopefully agreement can be reached to agree a refurbishment contract and get it underway.

 

[Ethan1852]

To come back on topic if the initial plan is to use 360s in pairs due to lower demand hopefully agreement can be reached to agree a refurbishment contract and get it underway.

The refurbishment would have happened but due to covid everything has been delayed.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Will still be interesting to see regardless as minus 115, the 360/1s have been in the blue livery for too long!

But surely only railway enthusiasts and some railway staff will know that. Slap some new colour and new seat covers and internal vinyls, and their new clientele will think they are new. Look what happened to the Marston Vale passengers who were given refurbished D stock.

 

[swt_passenger]

The refurbishment would have happened but due to covid everything has been delayed.

In Jan 2020, ie before Covid problems, EMR had already announced that the 360s would enter service without being refurbished.

 

[Wolfie]

In Jan 2020, ie before Covid problems, EMR had already announced that the 360s would enter service without being refurbished.

The delayed transfer, because GA were late getting their replacements, didn't help any with respect to that.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The RMT is taking strike action on the first day of the new service (and following two Sundays). It is not happy with the passenger safety of the 360 service as when operated in multiple there will be no access to a staff member in part of the train.

 

[43096]

The RMT is taking strike action on the first day of the new service (and following two Sundays). It is not happy with the passenger safety of the 360 service as when operated in multiple there will be no access to a staff member in part of the train.

Let’s be honest, RMT don’t give a stuff about passengers; this is really about wanting extra staff (who would then sit around doing nothing).

 

[Wolfie]

The RMT is taking strike action on the first day of the new service (and following two Sundays). It is not happy with the passenger safety of the 360 service as when operated in multiple there will be no access to a staff member in part of the train.

RMT are correct. Of course, given that they have operated trains with exactly the same issue in other parts of the country their motivation will come under heavy and justified scrutiny.

 

[RuralSquad93]

Senior conudctors are taking action, they don't work 360's only Train Managers so 360 workings should be unaffected AIUI

 

[43102EMR]

The RMT is taking strike action on the first day of the new service (and following two Sundays). It is not happy with the passenger safety of the 360 service as when operated in multiple there will be no access to a staff member in part of the train.

It’s the RMT - they find any and every excuse to strike when at times there’s really no need...

 

[LowLevel]

It's nothing to do with 360s and train managers at all, the RMT messed up their press release and wrote a load of nonsense beyond the first paragraph. Not for the first time. It has now disappeared.

They're in discussions with EMR with regards to manning multiple units coupled but no ballot has even taken place let alone a strike.

Where things are a bit sour is a very long running dispute with the local train guards (senior conductors) over a lot of impositions made in the Stagecoach era to their contracts.

 

[Wolfie]

It's nothing to do with 360s and train managers at all, the RMT messed up their press release and wrote a load of nonsense beyond the first paragraph. Not for the first time. It has now disappeared.

They're in discussions with EMR with regards to manning multiple units coupled but no ballot has even taken place let alone a strike.

Where things are a bit sour is a very long running dispute with the local train guards (senior conductors) over a lot of impositions made in the Stagecoach era to their contracts.

TY for the clarification. That makes more sense.

 

[73128]

In terms of distance or time? If time, then I'll give you Wokingham to Waterloo at 70 minutes or so - so actually longer than the poor down-trodden commuters of Wellingborough.

there's also the Chiltern line, all standard class for some time. Leamington is over an hour let alone points north. And DfT wanted SE to go standard class only (but unclear where that's got to).

 

[Railperf]

The RMT is taking strike action on the first day of the new service (and following two Sundays). It is not happy with the passenger safety of the 360 service as when operated in multiple there will be no access to a staff member in part of the train.

The 360s worked on GA services in 4, 8 and. 12-car units as DOO only. No major problems reported. Also the GA 321's, 379,s and 317's are all DOO in 8 and 12-car operation.

 

[Journeyman]

The 360s worked on GA services in 4, 8 and. 12-car units as DOO only. No major problems reported. Also the GA 321's, 379,s and 317's are all DOO in 8 and 12-car operation.

Yeah, we all know the RMT will selectively play the "safety" card when it suits them.

 

[Aictos]

RMT are correct. Of course, given that they have operated trains with exactly the same issue in other parts of the country their motivation will come under heavy and justified scrutiny.

I'm sure when Virgin Trains used to operate pairs of Class 22Xs, the understanding was that there was a safety critical staff member in the leading unit eg the driver and a safety critical staff member in the trailing unit eg the train manager although it's been a long time since I've been on such a working so couldn't say if that practice still continues.

 

[LowLevel]

Yeah, we all know the RMT will selectively play the "safety" card when it suits them.

Read my post #1224.

I do wish people would read the thread before commenting rather than skipping relevant information that someone has taken the time to provide.