EMR Class 360's

[Ianno87]

The loss of First Class from Wellingborough is a problem, especially if EMR continues to charge Intercity fares from Wellingborough.

I often purchased advanced first tickets from London to Wellingborough as for a quieter journey at not more much cost. Im future I will drive to Bedford.

I hardly think a 12 car train having only started at Corby will be particularly busy generally at Wellingborough.

 

[Nym]

You never know they might take the chance of installing a vending machine or two on board...?
Oh wait, we're not sensible over here.

 

[dk1]

You never know they might take the chance of installing a vending machine or two on board...?
Oh wait, we're not sensible over here.

Where would it go, who would service & restock it, the hurdles of a safety case & that’s all before unions kick off in case it permanently affects staffing. Best leave well alone & advise the public to buy before boarding. Would be a can of worms.

 

[Robertj21a]

You never know they might take the chance of installing a vending machine or two on board...?
Oh wait, we're not sensible over here.

I think/hope you're joking.

 

[43102EMR]

So it seems the white stripe’s finally being removed from the 360s ahead of their introduction into service with EMR on May 16 - 119 being amongst the first.

Also note how the first class designation has been removed, confirming earlier statements about first class being (potentially temporarily) removed (photo creds Twitter)

 

[Rail Blues]

So it seems the white stripe’s finally being removed from the 360s ahead of their introduction into service with EMR on May 17 - 119 being amongst the first.

Also note how the first class designation has been removed, confirming earlier statements about first class being (potentially temporarily) removed (photo creds Twitter)

It's amazing how much removing the stripe changes their appearance, the plain blue livery and the round lights make them curiously reminiscent of MK1 DMUs like the 116s I used on the cross city line as a nipper.

 

[Aictos]

Thanks for the photos, will be strange seeing them eventually in the purple EMR livery.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s a rare of removing a stripe to make the vehicle go faster!

 

[Old DMU]

It's amazing how much removing the stripe changes their appearance, the plain blue livery and the round lights make them curiously reminiscent of MK1 DMUs like the 116s I used on the cross city line as a nipper.

I hope they are going to give them an external wash! The public won't be impressed by dirty looking rolling stock!

 

[greatvoyager]

So it seems the white stripe’s finally being removed from the 360s ahead of their introduction into service with EMR on May 16 - 119 being amongst the first.

Also note how the first class designation has been removed, confirming earlier statements about first class being (potentially temporarily) removed (photo creds Twitter)

Does look rather empty in that plain livery.

 

[43055]

First passenger workings tomorrow? Looks to form 1P01 to Kettering and then shuttle between Corby and Kettering until 1P33 where it swaps with a unit from Etches Park.

Realtime Trains - 5P01 0625 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Corby

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 5P34 1659 Kettering to Kettering Stabling Sidings

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43102EMR]

First passenger workings tomorrow? Looks to form 1P01 to Kettering and then shuttle between Corby and Kettering until 1P33 where it swaps with a unit from Etches Park.

Realtime Trains - 5P01 0625 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Corby

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 5P34 1659 Kettering to Kettering Stabling Sidings

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Potentially - given the debrand to plain blue livery as well as a few units in Cauldwell receiving decals I’d say this is very likely.

Also it’s worth noting that the ORR has approved electric passenger services on the newly electrified section of the MML earlier this week, and with more HSTs being stood down it’s reasonable to assume Saturday’s the first day of service.

 

[Rail Blues]

I hope they are going to give them an external wash! The public won't be impressed by dirty looking rolling stock!

That's probably part of it. The 116s always seemed to be incredibly grimy both inside and out.

 

[fgwrich]

I hope they are going to give them an external wash! The public won't be impressed by dirty looking rolling stock!

I think they'd be used to it by now with EMR!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Catering on a journey lasting about an hour is a moot point though. There isn't catering on Northampton services, nor Cambridge services for example. I doubt very much the takings on catering south of Kettering were of any significance.

Not quite correct.
Pre-covid, a light breakfast (hot bacon roll or porridge) was served in the first class on the Avanti 06.40 Northampton - Euston.
There was at-seat catering on Avanti from Rugby and Milton Keynes, though possibly limited to tea/coffee from the latter.
I think the same applies to LNER from Peterborough.

Bearing in mind that the fares from Kettering & Wellingborough are at 'inter-city' levels, it's fair to compare with Inter-city services elsewhere, rather than 'NSE' (LNwR, GA)

 

[westcoaster]

First passenger workings tomorrow? Looks to form 1P01 to Kettering and then shuttle between Corby and Kettering until 1P33 where it swaps with a unit from Etches Park.

Realtime Trains - 5P01 0625 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Corby

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains - 5P34 1659 Kettering to Kettering Stabling Sidings

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Guess it is possible, due to the brent cross west line blockage.

 

[Old DMU]

I think they'd be used to it by now with EMR!

Brought up in the west country I remember the wonderful Merchant Navy and their lighter family, the West Country Class steam locos which always look dirty in the black and white photos now, but I remember them as shiny green locos belching huge plumes of black sooty smoke !!! Just call me a romantic!

 

[43102EMR]

Potentially - given the debrand to plain blue livery as well as a few units in Cauldwell receiving decals I’d say this is very likely.

Also it’s worth noting that the ORR has approved electric passenger services on the newly electrified section of the MML earlier this week, and with more HSTs being stood down it’s reasonable to assume Saturday’s the first day of service.

Can confirm this is a 222 rather than a 360.

 

[D365]

I think they'd be used to it by now with EMR!

I concur - squashed bugs are a regular sight

 

[A0wen]

Not quite correct.
Pre-covid, a light breakfast (hot bacon roll or porridge) was served in the first class on the Avanti 06.40 Northampton - Euston.
There was at-seat catering on Avanti from Rugby and Milton Keynes, though possibly limited to tea/coffee from the latter.
I think the same applies to LNER from Peterborough.

Bearing in mind that the fares from Kettering & Wellingborough are at 'inter-city' levels, it's fair to compare with Inter-city services elsewhere, rather than 'NSE' (LNwR, GA)

Ok. Well done for being a pedant and finding the one train from Northampton that did.

I know the point about the fares, but that won't change any time soon. And the fare is to get you from 'x' to 'y', not to determine the level if rolling stock, on board services or any other such variable, because if it did then people would have a claim against the ToC for breach of contract every time such things changed.

The higher fares were because those stations were outside the old NSE area - didn't just happen there and wasn't limited to "Inter City" standards - similar fare increases occurred at places like Hanborough or Newmarket.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Ok. Well done for being a pedant and finding the one train from Northampton that did.

Only one train, but a very popular one - double Voyager. Both first class sections usually reasonably full (perhaps a total of 2-4 vacant seats - at tables for 4) with Northampton boarders, standard full. Commuters evidently thought it was worth adjusting travel times slightly for the benefits over the stopping Cl. 350 (not infrequently, 350/2) trains.

Not suggesting every train from Wellingborough should have catering, but it's a pity that there will no longer be even one morning peak fast service with service. Fair comment that there was an element of ORCATS raiding in the Northampton situation, which would not apply at Wellingborough.

All or nothing seems a poor decision.

 

[A0wen]

Only one train, but a very popular one - double Voyager. Both first class sections usually reasonably full (perhaps a total of 2-4 vacant seats - at tables for 4) with Northampton boarders, standard full. Commuters evidently thought it was worth adjusting travel times slightly for the benefits over the stopping Cl. 350 (not infrequently, 350/2) trains.

Not suggesting every train from Wellingborough should have catering, but it's a pity that there will no longer be even one morning peak fast service with service. Fair comment that there was an element of ORCATS raiding in the Northampton situation, which would not apply at Wellingborough.

All or nothing seems a poor decision.

As somebody who's used both Northampton and Wellingborough stations, I can safely say I hardly ever used the on train catering. At Wellingborough there is a very good coffee shop on the station platform, so I bought before I travelled. I think I used the catering trolley once on a return journey because I arrived at St P with insifficient time to buy something else before boarding.

The loss of catering isn't really a loss for Wellingborough (or Kettering). The bigger loss at Wellingborough is the fact even in the peak it's only 2tph so if you miss one, or one is cancelled then it's a 30 minute wait for the next, not currently a problem between 7-8.30 am.

As an aside, I think the Northampton train you referred to was withdrawn some time back, possibly pre Avanti? Certainly there are no Avanti services showing on RTT that I could find.

 

[43055]

As an aside, I think the Northampton train you referred to was withdrawn some time back, possibly pre Avanti? Certainly there are no Avanti services showing on RTT that I could find.

If you are talking about the 0641 from Northampton it was in the December 2019 Avanti timetable. Most likely temporarily withdrawn in the reduced timetable.

Potentially - given the debrand to plain blue livery as well as a few units in Cauldwell receiving decals I’d say this is very likely.

Interesting. I'm guessing it's going to be more like the outgoing/temporary livery than full purple if its just decals.

 

[Merle Haggard]

As an aside, I think the Northampton train you referred to was withdrawn some time back, possibly pre Avanti? Certainly there are no Avanti services showing on RTT that I could find.

It was running right up to the first lockdown, cancelled then reinstated for a bit (and withdrawn again)

It's origins date back to the LH Northampton - Euston services, where latterly an Oxley - Euston (IC) ECS was hired in by NSE from Northampton to provide one of them. The current arrangement is use of a Branston - Euston ECS service; originally into passenger service at Northampton, but moved back in stages to New St, (for those who prefer the scenic route - it's 'overtaken by a later train').

The Wellingborough café had a sticky period when NE MML offered free tea and coffee in both classes (not continued by Stagecoach) and, presumably, they welcome the further changes. Their cups may be larger, as well.

The Milton Keynes - Euston first class commuters do seem very keen on their at-seat morning coffee. Personally, I allow enough time between getting up and leaving home to make my own...

 

[Mordac]

As somebody who's used both Northampton and Wellingborough stations, I can safely say I hardly ever used the on train catering. At Wellingborough there is a very good coffee shop on the station platform, so I bought before I travelled. I think I used the catering trolley once on a return journey because I arrived at St P with insifficient time to buy something else before boarding.

The loss of catering isn't really a loss for Wellingborough (or Kettering). The bigger loss at Wellingborough is the fact even in the peak it's only 2tph so if you miss one, or one is cancelled then it's a 30 minute wait for the next, not currently a problem between 7-8.30 am.

As an aside, I think the Northampton train you referred to was withdrawn some time back, possibly pre Avanti? Certainly there are no Avanti services showing on RTT that I could find.

There also used to be a lovely micropub. I hope it survived the pandemic.

 

[LowLevel]

There also used to be a lovely micropub. I hope it survived the pandemic.

It is indeed lovely and happily is trading outdoors.

 

[A0wen]

There also used to be a lovely micropub. I hope it survived the pandemic.

Yes, but at just before 8am en route to a meeting in London a coffee is more appropriate than a beer

 

[MK Tom]

On the catering point, won't there still be a couple intercity 222-operated departures from Corby/Wellingborough at certain times of day? The ex-Oakham service for one? If we're really comparing with the few early morning Avanti breakfasts from Rugby/Northampton/MKC.

 

[Helvellyn]

There was already a catering differential between the Meridians and HSTs in First Class. When catering comes back the offering on the Meridians/Adelantes will be consistent but no more full English breakfasts. Between 7am and 8am there were three Meridian and two HST services South from Wellingborough. The latter seemed more popular. But going to just two services, even if eventually 12-cars, will still be seen as a loss of flexibility. But yes, most customers would use the cafe on platform 1. However, only two services an hour means that in the peaks you'll need to allow plenty of time to get a coffee because custom won't be spread out across an hour.

 

[Merle Haggard]

On the catering point, won't there still be a couple intercity 222-operated departures from Corby/Wellingborough at certain times of day? The ex-Oakham service for one? If we're really comparing with the few early morning Avanti breakfasts from Rugby/Northampton/MKC.

There will be one, 14.19 from Wellingborough. As far as Wellingborough to St Pancras goes, it's standard class only (no first class fares available). I wonder if some wag will be trying to claim that means it's de-classalassified and they can sit in the first class with a standard ticket
Morning service from Wellingborough is rigidly 360s every half hour.

Although no Avanti up trains call (or are set down only) at Milton Keynes in the morning peak, there are 5 - all offering at seat - between 06.25 and 07.13.
Rugby has 6 similarly between 06.30 and 08.00.
These were all per Covid of course.

I wonder what is the second-longest London commuter service that's standard class only...