EMR still useless

[43055]

Not so sure about that. The journey time on a tram train would surely by significantly longer, and would make the Pronto bus the more attractive alternative.
If the RHL is to remain hourly it apparently needs to be on the opposite half-hour for better connections at both ends.

But if you move to the opposite half hour then there would be a clash at Worksop with the Northen services. Not sure what the problem with the connections are at Nottingham as there is normally at least 2 trains a hour on each line with generally a 30 min headway.

 

[ChrisC]

Not sure what the problem with the connections are at Nottingham as there is normally at least 2 trains a hour on each line with generally a 30 min headway.

This is the problem with the connections at the Nottingham:

The hourly RHL train arrives in Nottingham at xx45 each hour.
Trains to the following destinations depart only hourly at these times each hour.

Lincoln/Grimsby xx34
Grantham/Peterborough/Norwich xx40
Manchester/Liverpool xx45
Grantham/Skegness xx46
Now that XC are only running hourly it is the xx41 departure to Birmingham which connects at Derby with trains to the SW.
You only have to consider all the places served by these trains listed above to see how journey times to so many destinations now include a wait of approx 1 hour in Nottingham.

It’s no better in the opposite direction.
The RHL train departs Nottingham at xx25. Trains from the following destinations arrive in Nottingham each hour at the following times again resulting in an hour added to journey times.

Skegness/Grantham xx20
Grimsby/Lincoln xx25
Norwich/Peterborough/Grantham xx31
Liverpool/Manchester xx34
Again the train from Birmingham/Derby which connects with the XC train from the SW arrives in Nottingham at around xx26

It was always the train to/from Mansfield Woodhouse, currently removed from the timetable, that passengers from RHL stations would use for connections. Not good for a town the size of Mansfield to be left with such poor links to so many parts of the country.

 

[Jozhua]

Work is being undertaken on the RHL at the moment with detailed timing runs being made, apparently to make sure the May timetable which will still be hourly is robust, but with passive provision for the December timetable to be half hourly should all things be signed off etc.

EMR have also implemented a new method of work to speed up the door operations on 170s whereby if the guard is in a back or middle cab and can see the whole train through the droplight window they can release the train doors as soon as it comes to a stand without checking from the platform - it all saves cumulative seconds.

That's good to hear - the door opening is a bit painful at the moment!

Not so sure about that. The journey time on a tram train would surely by significantly longer, and would make the Pronto bus the more attractive alternative.
If the RHL is to remain hourly it apparently needs to be on the opposite half-hour for better connections at both ends.

Not perticularly - if it ran on the same route and similar stopping pattern, stops and acceleration out of them would be much faster.

Tram trains can achieve 62mph top speeds, which is about as fast as you'll go on that route. Tram signalling/switches allows for faster turnaround of the single track sections, reducing delays on those. Hopefully upgrades during electrification would eliminate or reduce these sections where possible.

Additionally, you could add a stop to serve Lenton, near QMC, much better serving the hospitals and universities with less need to double back.

This, alongside being able to do DOO would enable the same number of people to provide more frequent service, making it MUCH more appealing.

 

[mattmtfc]

Yeah I saw this, which would have been good if going to Mansfield. But it ended up being more efficient for me to go via Lincoln as I was headed to Nottingham.

Either way, very unfortunate.

I know there only every 2 hours but the sherwood arrow only takes around 1hr 20 all the way from Worksop to Nottingham and the train nearly takes that not sure how much it is these days.

 

[Jozhua]

I know there only every 2 hours but the sherwood arrow only takes around 1hr 20 all the way from Worksop to Nottingham and the train nearly takes that not sure how much it is these days.

1hr 6 minutes. It stops pretty frequently, door opening takes a long time and the 170s need a while to get up to speed.

Tram-ifying routes like this worked well in Manchester - remember lines like Bury and Altrincham basically run entirely on the old mainlines the whole way.

Tram technology has also come along, with tram train top speeds being around 62mph now, as they are in Sheffield. Additionally, less used stops can become "request stops" - saving time from not needing to stop at them at all!

The single track sections cause a lot of issues - Metrolink operates frequently with them, but the mainline network struggles much more, as the signals/switches take longer to react. The goal should probably be to double track more areas where possible!

 

[LowLevel]

1hr 6 minutes. It stops pretty frequently, door opening takes a long time and the 170s need a while to get up to speed.

Tram-ifying routes like this worked well in Manchester - remember lines like Bury and Altrincham basically run entirely on the old mainlines the whole way.

Tram technology has also come along, with tram train top speeds being around 62mph now, as they are in Sheffield. Additionally, less used stops can become "request stops" - saving time from not needing to stop at them at all!

The single track sections cause a lot of issues - Metrolink operates frequently with them, but the mainline network struggles much more, as the signals/switches take longer to react. The goal should probably be to double track more areas where possible!

Nottingham to Worksop is over 30 miles - far longer than Manchester to Altrincham or Bury - the bit beyond Mansfield of which is almost entirely countryside. I suspect if you were to convert it to a tram train Derbyshire wouldn't touch it with a barge pole funding wise and it would be closed north of Mansfield. I think it probably has too much dead rural running to do well as a tram. It'd be better served with something like a 172, or to be radical, a regeared 170.

 

[liamf656]

It'd be better served with something like a 172, or to be radical, a regeared 170.

I’ve mentioned before that 172s would be great, I’m glad someone else has the same idea! They’d also be good on Liverpools if the interior was fitted out accordingly, as the 172/3s have gangway connections which would make it easier to work in multiple, but all of that is for (and has been said in) the speculative forum

 

[ChrisC]

There have been a number of cancellations on the RHL today including the 2229 last train from Nottingham to Worksop tonight. There’s a replacement bus which unbelievably is timed to take 2hr 28mins to reach Worksop, not arriving until 0057!

 

[LowLevel]

There have been a number of cancellations on the RHL today including the 2229 last train from Nottingham to Worksop tonight. There’s a replacement bus which unbelievably is timed to take 2hr 28mins to reach Worksop, not arriving until 0057!

A number of nasty bugs going around as well as COVID have been making inroads into the traincrew, unfortunately.

 

[43055]

There have been a number of cancellations on the RHL today including the 2229 last train from Nottingham to Worksop tonight. There’s a replacement bus which unbelievably is timed to take 2hr 28mins to reach Worksop, not arriving until 0057!

The north staffs service has been more or less non existent this evening as well! After the 1548 from Derby the next service was the 1948 due to both the 1748 and 1848 being cancelled. Yes there is a bus at 1645 Bus but from what I have seen next to no one actually uses it and it also thinks its funny by putting 'I'm a choo choo' on the destination with no mention of it going to Stoke. The last service towards Crewe has already been cancelled tomorrow.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Regarding north staffordshire cancellations, the 1508 from Crewe was cancelled this afternoon between Stoke and Crewe - inbound service late. I noticed quite a lot of passengers waiting for their non-existant train at Crewe.

I've found that when the last 2 EMR trains of the night towards Crewe get cancelled, like the one tomorrow night 9th April, they still operate but as empty coaching stock to Crewe. Presumably driver only, to form the first train out of Crewe the next day?

 

[Jozhua]

Nottingham to Worksop is over 30 miles - far longer than Manchester to Altrincham or Bury - the bit beyond Mansfield of which is almost entirely countryside. I suspect if you were to convert it to a tram train Derbyshire wouldn't touch it with a barge pole funding wise and it would be closed north of Mansfield. I think it probably has too much dead rural running to do well as a tram. It'd be better served with something like a 172, or to be radical, a regeared 170.

I mean a tram is essentially an EMU-lite. The sort I was thinking of would be high floor, higher speed - not far off an EMU, but able to operate on 750v DC, 25Kv AC & battery.

Alternatively, one of the Vivarail Battery units could work quite nicely, cover ground fairly fast!

In the meantime, I'd like some direct Nottingham - Matlock services back...