• Dear Guest, and welcome to RailUK Forums. Our non-railway discussion forums are currently restricted until members have five or more posts, and you will not be able to make a new thread or reply to an existing one in this section until you have made five or more posts elsewhere on the forum.

Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
11,835
Couple of police out around Cambridge today on (obviously brand new) bikes, which I've never seen before.

Didn't see them challenge anybody. Presume just focusing on any groups of people or 'loitering' (of which I saw none on my walk)
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

C J Snarzell

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2019
Messages
1,276
As I said before people have to be sensible and use common sense and the police need to be proportionate in dealing with people who are out and about.

We all have our differences and opinions about this - a family from the same household having a picnic for a short time close to where they live might be accused of wrong doing because they are not complying with the one hour exercise rule. I know some parents are really struggling with their young children being cooped up indoors so something like this does offer a small window of respite. As long as they distance themselves from others could this be frowned upon?

The fisherman by the canal - again he is keeping well away from others but he is probably spending several hours with his rod and bait and no doubt he too will ruffle people's feathers about the time he spends away from his address.

Going back to what I said earlier - I've walked through my local park today and seen one or two people sat down on benches - one was a young woman feeding her child who was in it's pushchair. Again people would challenge whether she should be sat down on that bench at all while she spends a few minutes feeding her child!!!

You could play devils advocate with anything people do, no matter how trivial but like I said it's all down to keeping safe, sensible and applying common sense.

Thankfully every single person I've seen out and about today is behaving sensibly - I've seen one chap actually drawing cash from a ATM with disposable gloves on while I've seen queues outside my local paper shop with ten feet in between each person.

CJ
 

111-111-1

Member
Joined
20 Jul 2019
Messages
170
My travel to work today, as an essential worker, meant because of reduced train service either being an hour early or too tight on the next train.

I chose to sit on a bench in a public area and read, no one came within at a guess 20metres of me whilst there, rather than sit in a busy staff room before starting work. I did wonder what a police officer would say if approached but consider it was less risky for me and others doing what I did.
 

telstarbox

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
5,137
Location
Wennington Crossovers
I honestly don't think most people are breaking the new restrictions on purpose. It's such a massive change to decades of established practice in the UK that it will take a couple of weeks to sink in.
 

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,261
Local Tesco express has marked the floor with hazard tape to indicate where customers should stand in the queue to keep their distance, while the pet store has maximum of two customers at any one time inside
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
11,616
Location
Isle of Man
And she leaves the virus on the bench for the next person and the person after that and five days later you have a serious cluster.

Only if people start licking the bench.

If playground equipment is a risk so is a bench.

Playground equipment, and outdoor gym equipment, is a risk because you use your hands to use most of it, and most people will grab the equipment in roughly the same place.

If you're using your hands to sit on a bench you're doing it wrong.

I think "picking on easy targets" is the phrase you're looking for.

Quite. You won't get many £60 FPNs out of the marauding gangs because they'll tell the bizzies to go forth and multiply.
 

Busaholic

Established Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
9,883
I use my car to take my dog for a walk in the morning. Up until last September, I took him the five or ten minutes walk to my local public gardens, where dogs on a lead are welcome (there's a proper park five or so minutes further on), passing many people on the way, but I was generally able to avoid other people/dogs in the garden with reconaissance. Then, on the way back one day, within yards from home, I stopped for five minutes to chat and, on resumption, my leg went from under me and I went crashing into some ironwork outside a shop, leaving me shocked, breathless and a bit bruised, but with the realisation that the MS which I have would no longer allow me to walk unaided without a stick. (I only did that at this stage when walking the dog, as I felt I couldn't cope with both a stick and an elderly, but feisty, dog.) An hour later, my car Blue Badge arrived in the post, and from that day onwards my morning walk with dog involves a short car journey for us both before the gardens walk (by chance, I have a disabled parking bay almost opposite where I live which my car can occupy overnight.) So, I use a car both to walk my dog and to exercise myself, and my perambulations are all recorded on the CCTV a few yards away from my home in the centre of town. Given Penzance police are being exceedingly proactive in enforcing the new regulations, even before they became law, I'm quite expecting to be spoken to at some level in the coming days, but I have my response ready, which is basically that instead of potentially coming into fairly close contact with a number of people on the way to and from the gardens, my actual dog walk now usually involves nobody passing me even within nodding or shouting distance, because there are sufficient paths that I can avoid others. I have an arrangement that I can (usually, especially now) park in the gardens, by the way.
 

ChrisC

Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
486
Location
Nottinghamshire
Absolutely. I've been on several walks in the last few years that are part of the signposted Walk London walks and, in the outer suburbs, you can easily travel for half an hour without passing anyone. If you know the area, you can usually find somewhere to walk where you can easily socially isolate, just avoid the touristy areas. Just needs common sense and selflessness.

I don’t live in London but in rural Nottinghamshire. Away from the City of Nottingham and the area around Mansfield, Nottinghamshire is a sparsely populated and rural county. Since retiring 5 years ago I go for a walk of between 5 and 10 miles every week. I usually find somewhere to park in a small village and set off walking over footpaths for about 3 hours and regularly do not pass a single person.
That’s what I was intending on doing at least twice a week during the current situation, as indeed I did last Friday on a walk near the lovely cathedral town of Southwell.

Those people who all flocked in crowds last weekend to coastal towns, tourist locations in National Parks etc as though it was a holiday have probably made it far more difficult for all of us who like to do long walks in quiet isolated locations. Fortunately, I live in a rural location and have country walks from my house, but it’s going to get a bit boring doing the same walks for weeks if I can’t drive a few miles first, park up and walk from a different starting point.
 

SilentGrade

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2017
Messages
129
Didn't see them challenge anybody. Presume just focusing on any groups of people or 'loitering' (of which I saw none on my walk)

Which is what they should be focusing on. Not lone dog walkers, bench sitters or people out for 1hr and 15minutes of exercise.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
4,501
Only if people start licking the bench.
Or they put their hand on it whilst sitting down or standing up again. Benches have armrests you know!
Especially a risk if they are about to eat or drink something or smoke, as people often do on a bench.
 

infobleep

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
10,170
So there have been lockdowns in many other Countries, yet it only seems to be the UK, that cannot comply with the request !
STAY HOME... seems simple enough
ESSENTIAL JOURNEY ONLY... seems simple enough again !
Do you have evidence that people in other counties are complying more compared to the UK?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
52,451
Location
Yorkshire
STAY HOME... seems simple enough
ESSENTIAL JOURNEY ONLY... seems simple enough again !
It is "ESSENTIAL" that we have sufficient exercise to have a good immune system. As I've been denied my usual exercise I am doing long walks to ensure that my immune system is in good shape. This is for both physical and mental health reasons.
 

Belperpete

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
1,547
it’s going to get a bit boring doing the same walks for weeks if I can’t drive a few miles first, park up and walk from a different starting point.
I am sorry, but being bored does not make your journey essential!

The regulations seem quite clear to me, it is quite clearly stated that you should be minimising the time spent outside the house, and travelling somewhere else to do your exercise, as opposed to doing it locally, is clearly unnecessarily increasing the time spent outside your house.

It is exactly this kind of selfish "its alright for me to bend the rules" kind of attitude, when applied by thousands of individuals, that led to the crowding in the national parks. It may be safe for you to do it, but only providing other people aren't doing the same.

Once one person starts bending the rules, then you set the precedent for others to bend them even more. If its OK for you to drive somewhere more scenic that you would prefer to exercise, what about those without a car? Surely they should then be allowed to take the train or bus to do the same? Once you start saying that its okay to travel to do exercise, then the buses and trains will start filling with hikers, which is obviously highly undesirable at present.

Anyone using their car to make an unnecessary journey, just because they are bored of their usual walk, is clearly flouting the regulations, and I personally would fully support the police taking action against them.
 

richa2002

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
2,151
Once one person starts bending the rules, then you set the precedent for others to bend them even more. If its OK for you to drive somewhere more scenic that you would prefer to exercise, what about those without a car? Surely they should then be allowed to take the train or bus to do the same? Once you start saying that its okay to travel to do exercise, then the buses and trains will start filling with hikers, which is obviously highly undesirable at present.

Anyone using their car to make an unnecessary journey, just because they are bored of their usual walk, is clearly flouting the regulations, and I personally would fully support the police taking action against them.
This is where your argument fails. There is nothing "surely" about that. Cars are a safe cuccooned environment, trains or buses are not. Tough luck if you can't drive.

People need to get a grip and have a sense of proportion. This is not the bubonic plague and evidence is increasingly coming to light suggesting the modelling on this could be extremely flawed. You don't shut down the economy on shaky evidence. When will people realise that this virus is not the only influencer on health. There is potentially far more damage to be done by the most recent measures brought in with both mental health and long-term economic damage.

Individuals like yourself who take authoritarian measures to the limit and lick their lips at police action towards someone driving a couple of miles to walk their dog are a danger to the freedom of our society. You should take a step back and perhaps think a little more critically. Or book a one-way ticket to China.

It's amazing what fear can do to peoples' rationality.
 
Last edited:

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
7,724
Location
here to eternity
Individuals like yourself who take authoritarian measures to the limit and lick their lips at police action towards someone driving a couple of miles to walk their dog are a danger to the freedom of our society.

The measures are not there for "authoritarian" purposes - they are there to help slow the spread of the virus.
 

parkender102

Member
Joined
21 Dec 2010
Messages
287
My daughter currently lives in Brixton in a flatshare and has been working from home for 2 weeks. He 2 flatmates have recently returned to home in North Wales so she is left alone. Her plan was to self isolate for a week since the last contact with anyone else and then return to our house in North Wales as she can just as easily work from home here. It would benefit her mental wellbeing being back at home.

I know we can only leave the house in essential circumstances and I'm not sure this is essential but I see 2 options:

I drive to to London and bring her straight back home - if stopped by the Police will they allow me to complete my journey or will this be deemed non essential.

She can use public transport to return home - Tube or Bus then Avanti West Coast to London Euston to Chester and I will pick her up from the Station. Are people being stopped at the Stations and asked if the travel is essential? Would travel be allowed if stopped?

Would appreciate any advice or recent experience.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
63,867
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I know students have been advised that a journey home is not essential travel, so I would suggest it isn't for her either, I'm afraid, and so she would likely be refused access to public transport and you would be turned around and sent home.
 

WindsorJoe

Member
Joined
2 Jun 2019
Messages
18
Location
Windsor
Unfortunately, the advice for your daughter would be to remain in Brixton. Public transport would definitely not be a option. If you where to be stopped by the police, then you would be turned back towards home. Plus if anything where to happen on your journey to and from London such as a break down, accident need to top up for petrol it would be seen as putting yourself potentially into contact with others unnecessarily . Its unbelievably tough but staying in Brixton by herself is the advice I would give.
 

Jamesrob637

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2016
Messages
3,268
Or you may make it to Brixton but get turned back on the return, just as bad.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
52,451
Location
Yorkshire
...When will people realise that this virus is not the only influencer on health. There is potentially far more damage to be done by the most recent measures brought in with both mental health and long-term economic damage.....
I do share these concerns, as do many others I know. I believe the current mood among many is that we will continue for these three weeks, and possibly a little longer if required, but people are not going to accept the current situation indefinitely. There are many people I know who are at far greater risk from the measures used to counteract the virus than the risks of the actual virus itself; but understand the current need for restrictions, but at some point something has to give.

Just to add can we try to get back to discussing the enforcement element as we already have a separate thread for the actual measures being taken.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
11,616
Location
Isle of Man
The measures are not there for "authoritarian" purposes - they are there to help slow the spread of the virus.

I respectfully disagree- the virus is the excuse, not the motivation.

My gut instinct is that many of the worst "emergency" changes, such as those to the Mental Health Act, won't get rescinded when the virus has gone. I also strongly suspect much of the "emergency" legislation will stay on the statute books- even if dormant for a bit- ready to be used again next time but on a politician's whim.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
4,501
I respectfully disagree- the virus is the excuse, not the motivation.

My gut instinct is that many of the worst "emergency" changes, such as those to the Mental Health Act, won't get rescinded when the virus has gone. I also strongly suspect much of the "emergency" legislation will stay on the statute books- even if dormant for a bit- ready to be used again next time but on a politician's whim.
All the legislative changes are temporary. They can’t continue without further parliamentary debate and voting
 

Belperpete

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
1,547
This is where your argument fails. There is nothing "surely" about that. Cars are a safe cuccooned environment, trains or buses are not.
Cars are not a safe, cucooned environment, they just appear to be. Until you have a crash, or breakdown. Or we start needing the police to deal with the kind of over-crowding and tail-backs we saw last weekend.

I am afraid that people like you who go on public forums advocating that it is perfectly acceptable to disregard a clear and unambiguous instruction simply because it slightly inconveniences you, are only leading the way for others to follow your example, and with ever bigger and more serious infractions.

As someone who lives in one of the national parks affected by last weekend's antics, I can say that the local population are absolutely furious about all those who blatantly ignored the instructions just so that they could get some exercise somewhere prettier.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
24,868
Location
Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
I see the exercise fetishists are on looking for ways to be clever and circumvent the rules and pretend they don't apply to them. The NHS says that you should do at least 150 minutes of moderate intensity activity a week or 75 minutes of vigorous intensity activity a week. That means 25 minutes of moderate activity every day is more than enough. I wonder why they need 3 hour bike rides?

I am sure it is not an excuse to try and avoid the rules. Exercise is fine. Don't take the pi$$.

My gut instinct is that many of the worst "emergency" changes, such as those to the Mental Health Act, won't get rescinded when the virus has gone. I also strongly suspect much of the "emergency" legislation will stay on the statute books- even if dormant for a bit- ready to be used again next time but on a politician's whim.

there is a whole swathe of dormant emergency legislation on the books already.
 

EssexGonzo

Member
Joined
9 May 2012
Messages
567
Unfortunately my wife has had to make two journeys from Essex up to Bolton in the last 10 days to help her elderly and very sick parents. Her sister living locally is in self isolation as her daughter came back from NZ with CV19 symptoms.

On the second journey up there, she was at a near deserted service station on the M6 and police were cruising the car park asking (quite rightly) people why they were travelling. They took her explanation at face value.

I'm glad they're checking these things.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
52,451
Location
Yorkshire
I don't mind them asking but they need to accept appropriate/plausible answers and cannot demand ID.
I see the exercise fetishists are on looking for ways to be clever and circumvent the rules and pretend they don't apply to them. The NHS says that you should do at least 150 minutes of moderate intensity activity a week or 75 minutes of vigorous intensity activity a week. That means 25 minutes of moderate activity every day is more than enough. I wonder why they need 3 hour bike rides?...
Normally I would get:
  • 60 minutes of cycling per week (minimum - if I only go to work or the station each weekday)
  • 100 to 180 minutes of vigorous intensity, playing football, per week (depending on how often I play football)
  • 60 to 180 minutes of light activity involving football but not playing it competitively; ie. I will be walking or jogging around the pitch and not running at high intensity as it's not competitive for me.
  • A reasonable amount of walking in the course of a normal working day as some of the jobs I do involve a fair amount of walking
  • In addition to this I occasionally go for longer walks or cycle rides, sometimes with forum members
I am therefore going to do a suitable amount of exercise, as I see fit, to replace that. The fact that some people don't want me to do this will make me want to do it even more; I know you like saying "I am not going to change my mind" but guess what? I am not going to change my mind :D The fact I know you won't change your mind isn't my loss; it's yours!

I know I am right to do it and many people I know agree with me.

The idea that the figures you provide above are enough to remain what I would consider suitably active healthy are not figures I accept. They will be the bare minimum and not something to aspire to!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top