Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

[DarloRich]

@ashworth so sorry to hear this; sadly I do understand what you are going through, and this is one of the reasons that I feel strongly that there needs to be a sensible limit for how long this goes on for and that the needs of factors such as mental wellbeing and peoples livelihoods cannot be sacrificed and there does need to be a balance when decisions are made.

The sensible time will be as long as it needs to be sadly. We all need to accept that, accept limits on our liberty and freedom of expression and get through this so we can get back to real life asap. All other considerations are secondary to that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The sensible time will be as long as it needs to be sadly. We all need to accept that, accept limits on our liberty and freedom of expression and get through this so we can get back to real life asap. All other considerations are secondary to that.

(my underline/bold)

Er, who is suggesting limits on freedom of expression? That would be wrong.

 

[DarloRich]

(my underline/bold)

Er, who is suggesting limits on freedom of expression? That would be wrong.

Apologies - I mean the expression of our will/desires.

We live in a society where we are, rightly, able to pretty much do as we please, when we want and how we want. Many people are finding it hard to accept that we cant do that at present, accept why it needs to be like that and be honest about how long that is going to last.

 

[Typhoon]

On the other hand Our Cocker Spaniel and I have been doing 10 mile sections of the London Loop ( 150 odd miles) for the past 18 months (all the way Clockwise and now half way back anticlockwise ) at weekends
We both love doing this
As you say some of it is very isolated and it is easy to get off track as many signs are now missing
I have decided that the responsible thing is to stop doing this because I do not want to fall or become ill and rely on Emergency Services having to come to the middle of nowhere
( I could get a lift to the start and finish of each section)
I am keeping local

Thanks for details of the London LOOP, in particular the signage. I've left that one for now. It is primarily the Green Chain, that is well signed and paths much as I remember as a kid.

 

[Meerkat]

Thanks, but I think I covered that - risks of accident or breakdown are vanishingly small. Whereas off licenses are designated as essential suppliers. The comparative risks of driving about on your own, or going in to an off licence to make a face to face purchase do not seem, to me, to justify the driving ban.

The risk of YOU crashing is small, but as soon as large numbers of people start going for a drive the small risks add up and there will be accidents. Those accidents require the depleted emergency services to put themselves at risk and require hospital resources that desperately need conserving.
Also, if there are lots of low risk journeys being made then the more selfish can make higher risk journeys (load of mates meeting up etc etc) without being noticed.

My view is that 2) and 3) are entirely justified, but point 1) should have been responded to at this stage with a polite discussion and, at most, a warning. Hmmm.

I would guess that the driver nicked for going for a drive due to boredom was a kid who may well have been driving anti-socially. Who would answer “coz I’m bored” other than a cocky muppet?
Driving like a tosser is hard to prove, slapping the Covid FPN on is easy.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Am glad to see that it's a gradual easing over six months. The country will struggle with a continuation of the lockdown in its current form (and maybe even stricter enforcement) for half the year. Sad to read some of the examples above which are making things so very difficult for many people. Am personally finding it 'tricky' already.. my partner is north of the border and I'm down here in London, so we're just taking it week by week at the moment and catching up with each online as much as possible. I had it in my mind to drive up last week and spend the rest of the lockdown in Scotland but ultimately it was a 450 mile non-essential journey so I opted not to. I also didn't fancy getting two thirds of the way there only to be fined / turned back home.. naturally I'm spending a lot more time on here at weekends than I otherwise would!

Maybe a technicality but if you were intending to go there for the entire period of the lockdown, then couldn't you just about justify that as moving house, which, on my reading of the guidance, is discouraged but allowed.

 

[greyman42]

Just saw NW (England) news report of people arrested for "shopping for unnecessary items!"

Will these arrests end up with people being charged with an offence and a court appearance?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Will these arrests end up with people being charged with an offence and a court appearance?

I'd happily attend court if they tried to charge me for buying something like a USB Cable, Easter egg or a mouse whilst getting my groceries.

 

[baz962]

I'd happily attend court if they tried to charge me for buying something like a USB Cable, Easter egg or a mouse whilst getting my groceries.

I was wondering how they are policing this. I had the same thought as you , if you were buying eggs/milk/bread etc and you put a pot plant in your trolley , are you in bother. Or in this case , did the people have only non essential shopping or admitted to it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was wondering how they are policing this. I had the same thought as you , if you were buying eggs/milk/bread etc and you put a pot plant in your trolley , are you in bother. Or in this case , did the people have only non essential shopping or admitted to it.

I suspect it might well have been people who gave abuse to the officer when asked what they were up to. This is how most people who get charged with minor offences get done; if you're polite and civil you mostly just get a telling off.

 

[baz962]

I suspect it might well have been people who gave abuse to the officer when asked what they were up to. This is how most people who get charged with minor offences get done; if you're polite and civil you mostly just get a telling off.

Should you get a telling off even if you have essential supplies , if you had one or two non essential items , assuming you walked right past them in the aisle and didn't make any sort of detour to pick them up.

 

[Meerkat]

Should you get a telling off even if you have essential supplies , if you had one or two non essential items , assuming you walked right past them in the aisle and didn't make any sort of detour to pick them up.

Who said they even got a telling off? As very obvious from some posts on here there are people with very adverse reactions to authority, who would quite willingly instigate an argument if an official appeared to be monitoring a shop.

 

[nedchester]

Should you get a telling off even if you have essential supplies , if you had one or two non essential items , assuming you walked right past them in the aisle and didn't make any sort of detour to pick them up.

How do the police decide what is 'essential'? I personally think the police are acting above their remit. They perhaps need to act on groups of youths on street corners etc or maybe someone shopping for 'non-essential' items is an easy target.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who said they even got a telling off? As very obvious from some posts on here there are people with very adverse reactions to authority, who would quite willingly instigate an argument if an official appeared to be monitoring a shop.

And when you do that, Police Officers have a habit of moving to "what can we get them for".

I would suspect that the vast majority of prosecutions for slightly borderline tyres and seatbelt offences occur for this reason.

 

[baz962]

Who said they even got a telling off? As very obvious from some posts on here there are people with very adverse reactions to authority, who would quite willingly instigate an argument if an official appeared to be monitoring a shop.

I didn't say anyone did . I was asking the question. If anyone went to a shop for essential item's and picked up something non essential as they walked past , would that land them in bother. I also questioned how it's policed . Anyone wanting on the other hand to buy something non essential , could do it and then pop a pint of milk in the trolley or basket and say , look officer I was buying milk .

 

[Bantamzen]

How do the police decide what is 'essential'? I personally think the police are acting above their remit. They perhaps need to act on groups of youths on street corners etc or maybe someone shopping for 'non-essential' items is an easy target.

As things stand they can't decide what is essential or nor, they don't have the mandate, there is as far as I understand no list of essential goods.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

If true, it seems like the police have gone completely insane in telling people off buying "non-essential" things like Easter eggs etc.

What does one tell little Johnny at Easter who doesn't get a chocolate egg from mummy and daddy cos the nasty plod forbade buying one?

Then the shops will have a mountain of Easter eggs they can't shift

 

[nedchester]

If true, it seems like the police have gone completely insane in telling people off buying "non-essential" things like Easter eggs etc.

What does one tell little Johnny at Easter who doesn't get a chocolate egg from mummy and daddy cos the nasty plod forbade buying one?

Then the shops will have a mountain of Easter eggs they can't shift

The police should be looking for support from the public. This kind of thing alienates them from that support.

 

[Meerkat]

Have individuals been told off? I thought the story was about police/officials telling shops what they could sell.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I must admit I did have a right chuckle at the idiot who was caught driving from Coventry to Salford to collect something he'd purchased off e-bay, with his wife in the boot of the car. You couldn't make it up!

CJ

 

[farleigh]

The police have no power to inspect what you are buying. I suspect many of them would love that power. If it is for sale in a shop that is open then as far as I am concerned it is reasonable to purchase it given that the shop has been permitted to stay open.

 

[greyman42]

I must admit I did have a right chuckle at the idiot who was caught driving from Coventry to Salford to collect something he'd purchased off e-bay, with his wife in the boot of the car. You couldn't make it up!

CJ

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Stephen Kinnock driving to London to see his dad.

 

[scotrail158713]

Have individuals been told off? I thought the story was about police/officials telling shops what they could sell.

Nope - you’re right. (As far as I can see anyway)

 

[PHILIPE]

Neither has there been any mention of the two drug dealers journey moving drugs from the West Midlands presumably to the rural parts of Wales who were stopped at Newtown.

 

[FGW_DID]

Some ridiculous and OTT reactions here.

You aren’t going to fall fowl of the law if you are doing your essential shop and you pop an Easter egg or two in with your shopping.

If you went to the shop however and just bought that one unnecessary item then yes you are effectively making an unnecessary journey.

the whole point is to minimise your visits to the shops!

 

[High Dyke]

Thanks for details of the London LOOP, in particular the signage. I've left that one for now. It is primarily the Green Chain, that is well signed and paths much as I remember as a kid.

I've been led astray a few times by missing or obscure signage whilst walking the LOOP. Still the rest will have to wait for now... I took a short walk from my house yesterday, through the jitty to the next street and then up the footpath from there to the fields behind the house. All in all I was out for about an hour. On the way I passed two young people, I stepped aside from the path and with a polite 'thank you' they passed by within seconds. Further on the circular walk I passed other people walking - we all kept a safe distance apart. Does that make me a target of the police?

I've said before that we are all aware what the government has said. I suppose I could walk to the shops - when I need essential items. My nearest supermarket is 15 minutes away. I think part of the problem is different police forces are enforcing things as they interpret the restriction. North Yorkshire have reportedly set up roadblocks, but Lincolnshire Police says it will use "common sense and discretion" when using new policing powers introduced to enforce strict guidelines.

 

[FGW_DID]

I think N. Yorks & Derbyshire have had to utilise roadblocks as they have had the greatest influx of people travelling to the area intent on their exercise, who probably thought they would be the only ones to have that 'original' idea

 

[Tom B]

I assume one of the big issues for police is that this is rushed into law - they admitted that, when announced, they only knew as much as anyone else - and perhaps it was not subject to the scrutiny, checks, training, examples etc which would normally happen.

Police have also said that they are trying to encourage people to understand the need for the measures, rather than write out a ticket. Consider...

A) Tyrone, a college student who doesn't take much notice of the news, goes out to the hypermarket in his car to buy a playstation to stave off boredom - knowing that the hypermarket is still open as it sells food. The police stop him in the car park and explain the reason behind the rules, that he should go home etc. A penny drops in Tyrone's head and he goes "Oh, yeah, hadn't thought about that constable. Yeah ok, I didn't realise, sorry constable" and the constable goes "Ok, well you're here now anyway, you may as well buy it and get home, have a nice day and keep 6'6" from everyone ok?".

B) Kevin, a local pub lawyer who *knows* the country would be run properly if *he* was in charge, goes out to the hypermarket in his car to buy a playstation to stave off boredom. The police stop him in the car park and explain the reason behind the rules. Kevin quotes select portions of the rules to the constable, asks why they think they have the right to ask him anything, says that they're a bunch of >expletive< >expletive< and they should be out catching proper criminals like the ones he often posts about on his local vigilante facebook group. The police explain they are trying to educate people and reduce the spread of the virus, but Kevin starts rambling on about 5G and a video what he once saw on youtube, and how do you explain that? Eh? Eh? And nobody's going to stop his god given right to buy his playstation. The supermarket's security bloke asks him to leave as he's making a scene and swearing in front of children, at which point Kevin lunges and thumps him, at which point he gets nicked for ABH as well as getting his ticket for not respecting the lockdown. The police constables spend the rest of their shift booking him in and doing the reams of paperwork whilst Kevin clogs up one of their cells and contracts covid19 from one of the other inmates.

... which outcome is more positive for *everyone*?

 

[FGW_DID]

I assume one of the big issues for police is that this is rushed into law - they admitted that, when announced, they only knew as much as anyone else - and perhaps it was not subject to the scrutiny, checks, training, examples etc which would normally happen.

Police have also said that they are trying to encourage people to understand the need for the measures, rather than write out a ticket. Consider...

A) Tyrone, a college student who doesn't take much notice of the news, goes out to the hypermarket in his car to buy a playstation to stave off boredom - knowing that the hypermarket is still open as it sells food. The police stop him in the car park and explain the reason behind the rules, that he should go home etc. A penny drops in Tyrone's head and he goes "Oh, yeah, hadn't thought about that constable. Yeah ok, I didn't realise, sorry constable" and the constable goes "Ok, well you're here now anyway, you may as well buy it and get home, have a nice day and keep 6'6" from everyone ok?".

B) Kevin, a local pub lawyer who *knows* the country would be run properly if *he* was in charge, goes out to the hypermarket in his car to buy a playstation to stave off boredom. The police stop him in the car park and explain the reason behind the rules. Kevin quotes select portions of the rules to the constable, asks why they think they have the right to ask him anything, says that they're a bunch of >expletive< >expletive< and they should be out catching proper criminals like the ones he often posts about on his local vigilante facebook group. The police explain they are trying to educate people and reduce the spread of the virus, but Kevin starts rambling on about 5G and a video what he once saw on youtube, and how do you explain that? Eh? Eh? And nobody's going to stop his god given right to buy his playstation. The supermarket's security bloke asks him to leave as he's making a scene and swearing in front of children, at which point Kevin lunges and thumps him, at which point he gets nicked for ABH as well as getting his ticket for not respecting the lockdown. The police constables spend the rest of their shift booking him in and doing the reams of paperwork whilst Kevin clogs up one of their cells and contracts covid19 from one of the other inmates.

... which outcome is more positive for *everyone*?

Brilliant!

(Unfortunately it seems there are a lot of Kevins out there!)

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I would guess that the driver nicked for going for a drive due to boredom was a kid who may well have been driving anti-socially. Who would answer “coz I’m bored” other than a cocky muppet?
Driving like a tosser is hard to prove, slapping the Covid FPN on is easy.

That does actually sound plausible, although it is obviously speculation.

However, if that that was the case, it would clearly justify the police arresting him. It's hard to see how it would justify the police using him as an example on a public tweet to say 'we arrested someone for going for a drive because they were bored' - because if your speculation is true, that would make for a somewhat misleading tweet.