Maybe being a bit curious here but governments don't mention companies such as Amazon when they are doing apps, websites, they will just plaster any label on it and call it theirs?
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England & Wales Tracing App to be released Sept 24th
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Maybe being a bit curious here but governments don't mention companies such as Amazon when they are doing apps, websites, they will just plaster any label on it and call it theirs?
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The hosting providers will be providing the back end hosting - irrespective of who is developing the app, website, or whatever it is.
I briefly looked into this last week - someone pointed out that the relevant git repository hadn't had a commit pushed to it for over a month. Which is possible, I guess - maybe they didn't make any changes between the trial and the full roll-out - but it does seem a little odd. I haven't looked since to see if that has changed.
Well yes, but so are most of the things that have happened since March. Many of the backbenchers probably agree - and happily they finally seem to be waking up - but the *government* is not acting like Tories in pretty much any respect. Which is particularly irritating as this is the one time we need them to.
There were lots of changes updated on September 24th at https://github.com/nhsx/covid19-app-system-public
I think it would have been better to have rolling updates to the code, rather than doing it just as the release goes out into the wild.
DelayRepay
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The aps aren't run by Amazon. The government are renting server space from Amazon. This is really, really common and is a used as a way to have reliable technology available quickly, without having to build and manage a traditional data centre. There are loads and loads of companies using Amazon Web Services as well as lots of government departments. Your bank may well be using AWS for some of their services. Netflix and the BBC both use AWS.
birchesgreen
Established Member
Most of the internet these days is hosted on one of the big cloud hosting providers, of which Amazon is the biggest player. This forum isn't on AWS though, i just checked so you are safe 
423 changed files, 10000+ new lines of code... Yes, that's fairly major.
It would seem better to expose the real repository, yes.
Most companies doing rapid development are very focused on open comms, no-blame cultures, and not being afraid to make mistakes.
Doing that on a typical open-source project is generally okay, since not that many people are interested. The one external guy who does take it on themselves to negatively comment on everything will basically just give the team something to cohere around - hating him.
The NHS project is being crawled over with a fine toothcomb for errors, transgressions or being poor value for money. It's likely that Devs committing mistakes and being corrected in code review, or internal debates, or in-jokes in messages, could all be seized upon by an aggressive press who can't be bothered to understand.
Opening the source for transparency is important. Opening the process and developers for needless criticism isn't.
WelshBluebird
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All of this talk of Amazon is really where I start to despair at the media reporting and how paranoid some people are.
Amazon have AWS (Amazon Web Services) as part of their business. AWS is mainly a hosting provider (though that is a bit of a simplification given how much they do offer!). Many many websites and apps use AWS to power their services. Having AWS involved in your system is no where near an issue. To give examples - Netflix, Facebook, BBC, easyJet, Reddit, Expedia, Etsy, AirBnB, I could go on!
As a software developer - thank you! haha. Hardly anyone thinks of us lot when it comes to stuff like this.
Amazon have AWS (Amazon Web Services) as part of their business. AWS is mainly a hosting provider (though that is a bit of a simplification given how much they do offer!). Many many websites and apps use AWS to power their services. Having AWS involved in your system is no where near an issue. To give examples - Netflix, Facebook, BBC, easyJet, Reddit, Expedia, Etsy, AirBnB, I could go on!
As a software developer - thank you! haha. Hardly anyone thinks of us lot when it comes to stuff like this.
Scrotnig
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Indeed. The public not understanding this - ok, up to a point. They may not have the knowledge to do so. The media not understanding it and even misreporting it - completely unacceptable.
DelayRepay
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I wonder how many of the news articles mis-reporting the involvement of Amazon are themselves using AWS?
The media probably understands it perfectly well - it just makes better copy / clickbait if they pretend not to.
If it relies purely on proximity, and the bluetooth signal can get through the wall (which in many cases it will be able to) I can't see how this could be avoided.
Turn it off when in your house I suppose.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Potentially, although Bluetooth struggles very quickly passing through objects and walls so you will probably be OK. Of course you could just stop the app's Bluetooth access when at home.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It shouldn't do - the Bluetooth signal is very weak, so it going through a brick wall is relatively unlikely.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Just make sure your neighbours do too.....
I'd rather they put theirs on the opposite side !
WelshBluebird
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From what I understand, just because your phone can see the bluetooth signals from another phone, it doesn't mean the app will translate that into that you are at risk if that person does register a positive test. It is more based on some logic that uses the signal strength of the bluetooth signal along with a measure of time I believe. Obviously nothing will be perfect, but I would be surprised if they haven't thought to at least try to cover the case of people living in flats or terraced houses!
It's going to depend on the building - in modern semis / terraces with flimsy walls it may well get through, particularly if close to the wall.
AndyY
Member
Does anyone find that the app eating up the battery? I had the tracking switched on for about 2h when out for a walk and shopping, the battery dropped from 80% to about 30%.
birchesgreen
Established Member
Can't say i've had that problem, though i use an iPhone XR which has pretty good battery life to be honest.
Bantamzen
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I've been keeping an eye on mine, and it barely tickles the battery, never using up more than a couple of percent (Sony XZ2 using Android v10).
nlogax
Established Member
It shouldn't, but bluetooth stacks can vary quite a lot between phones and Android versions, and the older the phone/Android version the worse it is likely to be. I'd give it a day or so to see if it's something unrelated, but if it's that battery-hungry on your device then it's probably not worth it
This thread has gone quiet.
Looking back I can see that a few establishments have refused entry to those without a smartphone with the app installed.
I was offered an old smartphone but it is only Android 5 while the app requires at least 6. I have a couple more possibilities in the pipeline.
When ' checking in ' does the app also require an internet connection either Wi-Fi or 3G / 4G ?
I am only on PAYG so if the network internet is enabled I don't want my credit disappearing rapidly by either this app or anything else on the phone.
Of course the data of where I have been has to be uploaded but this could be when back at home by wi-fi.
For public Wi-fi, as I understand, while in some places it just connects most require some form of registration which can include sending a code to email that has to be accessed then entered.
I'm not that bothered for now but if come next spring / summer the choice becomes either not go out for a full day or have to ' check in ' at a pub / cafe / restaurant then connect to their wi-fi to download and use their app to order I will begrudgingly do this.
What is the current arrangement at motorway services. Do you ' check in ' to enter even if just going to the loo or only for eat-in food facilities or shared seating areas?
Looking back I can see that a few establishments have refused entry to those without a smartphone with the app installed.
I was offered an old smartphone but it is only Android 5 while the app requires at least 6. I have a couple more possibilities in the pipeline.
When ' checking in ' does the app also require an internet connection either Wi-Fi or 3G / 4G ?
I am only on PAYG so if the network internet is enabled I don't want my credit disappearing rapidly by either this app or anything else on the phone.
Of course the data of where I have been has to be uploaded but this could be when back at home by wi-fi.
For public Wi-fi, as I understand, while in some places it just connects most require some form of registration which can include sending a code to email that has to be accessed then entered.
I'm not that bothered for now but if come next spring / summer the choice becomes either not go out for a full day or have to ' check in ' at a pub / cafe / restaurant then connect to their wi-fi to download and use their app to order I will begrudgingly do this.
What is the current arrangement at motorway services. Do you ' check in ' to enter even if just going to the loo or only for eat-in food facilities or shared seating areas?
No. To check in, you need to give permission for the app to use the camera on your phone. It then stores the information about your visit. You don't need to connect to the internet.
The app does need internet access to work properly, but this can be from WiFi at home. This is first to download the app. Then if you have a positive COVID test, the app needs to connect to distribute the details of your contacts. The app doesn't know your contact details or phone number. If you come into contact with someone who has the infection, then the warning will be sent to you when the app is connected to the internet.
Covid-19: Test and trace app incompatibility angers cross-border residents
The Department for Health and Social Care says it is working on "a technical solution".
www.bbc.co.uk
Even though I haven't downloaded any but we all seen this coming no matter where you stay in the UK and Ireland (this should have ... once again been a 4 nation approach), not going down the road in politics but wish however all politicians get their heads together than give mixed messages!
I personally seen this from the outset issues would arise but I did wonder why the need for 2 apps if I stay in Scotland but would also have to put in the England version (no problems in general here) if I am visiting Newcastle (other areas in England) in the future.
If I was to change my mind on the whole app thing I would download as a UK than a Scotland app but thats just my personal preference (everyone will be different)
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