England & Wales Tracing App to be released Sept 24th

[yorkie]

https://www.bourneblades.co.uk/news/important-fa-mandates-use-of-nhs-covid19-app-2571955.html

Further news that requires your immediate attention please... in that the FA has now made it compulsory for all those participating in, or attending matches to download the new NHS COVID-19 App with immediate effect.

Until further notice, all participants/attendees must also use the App to scan the QR code at match(es) on arrival. Please note that this must be done using the official NHS COVID-19 App, not other/standard QR scanning Apps.

It sounds like people who do not have smartphones can no longer participate in, watch, or officiate in, football matches? Does anyone know anything about this, and whether they are allowed to impose this?

 

[DelayRepay]

I am only on PAYG so if the network internet is enabled I don't want my credit disappearing rapidly by either this app or anything else on the phone.
Of course the data of where I have been has to be uploaded but this could be when back at home by wi-fi.
For public Wi-fi, as I understand, while in some places it just connects most require some form of registration which can include sending a code to email that has to be accessed then entered.

This may reassure you:

Major phone operators in England and Wales, including Vodafone, Three, EE, O2 (including giffgaff and Tesco mobile), Sky, and Virgin, are supporting NHS COVID-19 app users by ‘zero-rating’ data charges for all in-app activity. This means customers will not be charged for data when using the in-app functions, or if they are directed out of the app to nhs.uk websites.

 

[Richard Scott]

https://www.bourneblades.co.uk/news/important-fa-mandates-use-of-nhs-covid19-app-2571955.html

It sounds like people who do not have smartphones can no longer participate in, watch, or officiate in, football matches? Does anyone know anything about this, and whether they are allowed to impose this?

Or those of us who have no desire to have this app on our phones. I don't want it and that should be my choice. I'm happy to do manual track and trace i.e. give the establishment my details.

 

[45107]

https://www.bourneblades.co.uk/news/important-fa-mandates-use-of-nhs-covid19-app-2571955.html

It sounds like people who do not have smartphones can no longer participate in, watch, or officiate in, football matches? Does anyone know anything about this, and whether they are allowed to impose this?

If you click on the link contained in the article, it states that clubs can use paper back up if the app is not available.
I have attended 3 non-league games in the last week and have been allowed to use the manual/paper check in.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It sounds like people who do not have smartphones can no longer participate in, watch, or officiate in, football matches? Does anyone know anything about this, and whether they are allowed to impose this?

As a first thing, as is repeatedly pointed out on here, but people don't seem to get, yes, a private organisation such as a football club is totally entitled to impose this if they so desire. Your remedy is to cease patronising the organisation or business.

However, this link:

FA Announcement for NHS Test & Trace

All facility providers and clubs to use NHS Covid-19 App

nehyl.org.uk

would suggest it is not actually true:

The NHS Covid-19 app for participants to read the QR code can be downloaded here and FAQ's are here. Note alternative QR code readers/cameras will not work so the App must be used to read the QR code poster. A full list of devices tested using the App is here - if a device isn't supported, attendance will need to be recorded on paper for that individual and retained for 21 days. Everyone who can download the App should do so.

 

[DelayRepay]

Have any of the app users on this forum received any kind of 'alert' yet?

 

[island]

As a first thing, as is repeatedly pointed out on here, but people don't seem to get, yes, a private organisation such as a football club is totally entitled to impose this if they so desire. Your remedy is to cease patronising the organisation or business.

The government says otherwise. I cannot find the specific link but I am sure it was posted earlier on the thread – it says that those who can’t/don’t/won’t use the app must (direct quote) be offered the opportunity to provide contact details some other way.

 

[takno]

The government says otherwise. I cannot find the specific link but I am sure it was posted earlier on the thread – it says that those who can’t/don’t/won’t use the app must (direct quote) be offered the opportunity to provide contact details some other way.

It was stated further up the thread, but it was based on a misreading of the quoted regulation, which said that the NHS app *must* be offered. The bit about alternatives was a separate part of the sentence.

 

[island]

It was stated further up the thread, but it was based on a misreading of the quoted regulation, which said that the NHS app *must* be offered. The bit about alternatives was a separate part of the sentence.

Wrong.

[Withdrawn] Maintaining records of staff, customers and visitors to support NHS Test and Trace

Venues in certain sectors should continue to ask customers, visitors and staff to 'check in', to help stop the spread of coronavirus (COVID-19)

www.gov.uk

Relevant quote: “Venues must not make the specific use of the NHS QR code a precondition of entry (as the individual has the right to choose to provide their contact details if they prefer).” (My emphasis)

 

[87 027]

I have downloaded the app for the sake of convenience. I'm slightly bemused by the fact that having checked into several venues today it shows me in two places at once (check in times seem to be rounded even if that produces illogical results). The app itself allows you to turn contract tracing on and off, and to delete all stored data including check ins.

I'm surprised that there isn't a version of the app that works with earlier hardware to support checkins using scanning of QR codes even if the handset itself doesn't support the more modern Low Energy incarnation of Bluetooth which is needed to make the Android and iOS APIs work for proximity detection

 

[_toommm_]

Have any of the app users on this forum received any kind of 'alert' yet?

I've had two in the past few days saying I might have been in contact with someone who had it. My housemate had four. We both contacted 111 as there was nothing to concrete to say whether we did or didn't have to isolate, and they've said those notifications are erroneous, and the app will turn its tick to red, and will categorically tell you if you need to isolate.

They're allegedly working on a fix.

 

[takno]

I'm surprised that there isn't a version of the app that works with earlier hardware to support checkins using scanning of QR codes even if the handset itself doesn't support the more modern Low Energy incarnation of Bluetooth which is needed to make the Android and iOS APIs work for proximity detection

Would probably be a good idea. I guess the worry is that a lot of people would go for that one in preference

 

[87 027]

Would probably be a good idea. I guess the worry is that a lot of people would go for that one in preference

I was thinking of a single universal app adapting itself to the hardware functionality of the handset it's running on. I must confess I had serious privacy concerns with the previously proposed centralised app, not least with government's refusal to enact the proposed privacy safeguards suggested by the joint human rights committee, but I am persuaded that the decentralised model using the Apple and Google APIs does increase safeguards

 

[MikeWM]

I still don't see the point of 'venue checkin' in the case that you are also doing the bluetooth proximity stuff. What is that going to usefully pick up that the proximity stuff won't? Am I missing something here?

(That is other than that they're getting us prepared for the next stage, where the phone app will say whether we're sufficently 'clean' to be allowed in...)

 

[bspahh]

I still don't see the point of 'venue checkin' in the case that you are also doing the bluetooth proximity stuff. What is that going to usefully pick up that the proximity stuff won't? Am I missing something here?

If everyone used the app then you might be able to rely on just the Bluetooth contacts.

Checking into a venue means that you can also identify people who just left their name and contact number, and is a useful backup in case there were problems with the Bluetooth method.

 

[MikeWM]

If everyone used the app then you might be able to rely on just the Bluetooth contacts.

Checking into a venue means that you can also identify people who just left their name and contact number, and is a useful backup in case there were problems with the Bluetooth method.

Ah yes, it seems I had't thought through all the scenarios. There still needs to be a mechanism for someone who doesn't have the app to inform others, whether by manual records or the checkin. Fair enough...

 

[Huntergreed]

Question about contact tracing, if I visit a pub and someone else later tests positive (wasn’t sitting with them), would I be asked to self isolate? And would my use of the app increase my chances of being asked to do so? Slightly concerned about visiting hospitality due to this.

 

[158801]

I have the NHS app on my personal phone and my work phone.

I’ve had three alerts in the last 12 hours on my work phone. That is to say that I’ve been in close proximity with three people who have subsequently tested positive - however the closeness or duration is not enough to make me isolate. These alerts would probably be triggered by customers -rather than colleagues as, in staff rooms, I tend to have both phones with me.

Considering that 90% of the population (assuming there’s 20 million under 16’s) haven’t downloaded the app, and assuming that 65% of people are asymptomatic - that means I’ve had close contact, on the train, with 120 people with Coronavirus in the last 14 days (and I’ve only been at work for 7 of them !)

 

[_toommm_]

The proximity and time spent near the person who tested positive is important. The photo below shows the algorithm, whereupon you need to build up 900 points in a day per infected person to be contacted. A five minute 0 to 2 metre contact gets you 300 points, and a five minute 2 to 4 metre contact gets you 150 points.

 

[takno]

The proximity and time spent near the person who tested positive is important. The photo below shows the algorithm, whereupon you need to build up 900 points in a day per infected person to be contacted. A five minute 0 to 2 metre contact gets you 300 points, and a five minute 2 to 4 metre contact gets you 150 points.
View attachment 84264

So if you spend half an hour 3 metres away from someone outdoors it will trigger?

 

[_toommm_]

So if you spend half an hour 3 metres away from someone outdoors it will trigger?

By the sounds of it yeah.

 

[kez19]

If everyone used the app then you might be able to rely on just the Bluetooth contacts.

Checking into a venue means that you can also identify people who just left their name and contact number, and is a useful backup in case there were problems with the Bluetooth method.

Not everyone wants to use the app though do they? This whole premise of using an app to control a virus, it sounds more like a computer game! (are we in Jumanji by chance?), the irony of it to me is when they say its everyone's responsibilty, yet way back in the beginning no government had a clue and yet we are to believe them now? (may sound a bit off topic here but that what I think)

When I say control the virus/spread it’s the messaging that I have heard the Scottish Government use in their ads (I’m guessing it’s the same message that’s used from the uk government level)

Yet people are using the apps and unsure of what they meant to do with the notifications, maybe they should have held the apps back to make sure it was close to 100% for public use than what sounds like a buggy development (you could argue the same with windows and apple with updates, times updates have rolled out cause issue then send patches to update - is this happening with the apps?)

 

[birchesgreen]

To be honest i looked at the app on my phone just now and realised i've had the bluetooth tracking thing turned off for the last week (forgot to turn it back on when i went out again). Even if you have the app its only as good as the idiot using it!

 

[ainsworth74]

To be honest i looked at the app on my phone just now and realised i've had the bluetooth tracking thing turned off for the last week (forgot to turn it back on when i went out again). Even if you have the app its only as good as the idiot using it!

Yes that's something that could do with some work! I have the contact tracing turned off most of the time as I'm at home most of the time! It would be useful if rather than the "remind me in x hours" you could pick a time for it to remind you specifically or something a bit more useful than just "remind me in a few hours".

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes that's something that could do with some work! I have the contact tracing turned off most of the time as I'm at home most of the time! It would be useful if rather than the "remind me in x hours" you could pick a time for it to remind you specifically or something a bit more useful than just "remind me in a few hours".

Yes a daily reminder that pops up in your notifications first thing would be useful.

 

[nlogax]

Yes a daily reminder that pops up in your notifications first thing would be useful.

Reckon it's probably possible to turn off contact tracing while at home using something like Tasker or Automate. I'm faffing around with Automate right now, will give it a go.

 

[david1212]

No. To check in, you need to give permission for the app to use the camera on your phone. It then stores the information about your visit. You don't need to connect to the internet.

The app does need internet access to work properly, but this can be from WiFi at home. This is first to download the app. Then if you have a positive COVID test, the app needs to connect to distribute the details of your contacts. The app doesn't know your contact details or phone number. If you come into contact with someone who has the infection, then the warning will be sent to you when the app is connected to the internet.

Thanks for these details about how the app works.

This may reassure you:

Major phone operators in England and Wales, including Vodafone, Three, EE, O2 (including giffgaff and Tesco mobile), Sky, and Virgin, are supporting NHS COVID-19 app users by ‘zero-rating’ data charges for all in-app activity. This means customers will not be charged for data when using the in-app functions, or if they are directed out of the app to nhs.uk websites.

Thanks for this.

Equally if the app used a bit of data at every check-in I would not be bothered about it. Rather that keeping the phone with mobile internet on would potentially allow Android or other apps to use data without realising until I checked the credit balance or found it was almost all used.

Back 10 or so years ago when Wi-fi in holiday accommodation etc was not almost universal or was chargeable at silly rates aimed at business people on expenses I had a mobile broadband USB dongle for my laptop. I specifically turned off known updates e.g. Windows, antivirus definitions but was caught more than once by others that updated occasionally e.g. flash player. With lower data speeds then the clue sometimes was email etc loading far slower than usual.

The key point here is I now know I can keep the mobile internet on a smartphone off. The app working this way also makes it usable with an Android tablet. I have one but rarely use it. I bought it primarily together with a bluetooth module to get some idea why the car has thrown its toys out the pram.

 

[yorkie]

Moderator note: Some posts have been split to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/spreadsheet-error-resulted-in-missing-sars-cov-2-cases.209906/

I know it's difficult but if we can try to stick to discussing the app and any uses of the app in this thread, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[IanXC]

Yes that's something that could do with some work! I have the contact tracing turned off most of the time as I'm at home most of the time! It would be useful if rather than the "remind me in x hours" you could pick a time for it to remind you specifically or something a bit more useful than just "remind me in a few hours".

My phone running Android 11 gives a notification when you disable Bluetooth using the main Bluetooth on/off for the phone (rather than just disabling in the app itself), I then leave this notification outstanding when I'm at home as a prompt to turn it back on when I go out.

 

[charley_17/7]

Have any of the app users on this forum received any kind of 'alert' yet?

Yes, I have received two, and immediately self-isolated. As a result family member will miss their flu jab appointment, and I will miss a hospital appointment, as well as two weeks off work in Kent Route Control. Not happy at all.