England & Wales Tracing App to be released Sept 24th

[Bantamzen]

In light of possible further restrictions next week, I may be planning to delete the app as it will no longer serve a useful function.

 

[DelayRepay]

Yes, I have received two, and immediately self-isolated. As a result family member will miss their flu jab appointment, and I will miss a hospital appointment, as well as two weeks off work in Kent Route Control. Not happy at all.

Does it tell you if the alert is linked to a venue check in or a Bluetooth contact? How much information does it give you?

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes, I have received two, and immediately self-isolated. As a result family member will miss their flu jab appointment, and I will miss a hospital appointment, as well as two weeks off work in Kent Route Control. Not happy at all.

Did the app tell you to self-isolate?

My phone running Android 11 gives a notification when you disable Bluetooth using the main Bluetooth on/off for the phone (rather than just disabling in the app itself), I then leave this notification outstanding when I'm at home as a prompt to turn it back on when I go out.

Hmm here in Android 10 land no such notification but it would be useful when I get to 11.

 

[takno]

Yes, I have received two, and immediately self-isolated. As a result family member will miss their flu jab appointment, and I will miss a hospital appointment, as well as two weeks off work in Kent Route Control. Not happy at all.

Unless it actually goes red and tells you to self isolate I don't think you're supposed to do so. For some reason they decided to set it up so it alerts you if you've ever been near an infected person however briefly. I know people in universities who are getting 3 or 4 of these pings a day without being required to actually isolte

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unless it actually goes red and tells you to self isolate I don't think you're supposed to do so. For some reason they decided to set it up so it alerts you if you've ever been near an infected person however briefly. I know people in universities who are getting 3 or 4 of these pings a day without being required to actually isolte

The app will give you a self isolation countdown if it is requiring you to isolate. Those stupid alerts (which are a bug of some kind) can be disregarded - walking past someone in the street is enough to trigger those.

 

[Jamiescott1]

My local informal running group (runs organised via social media) have just advised that for Wednesdays run they will be printing a qr code and asking people to check in on the app.

 

[Richard Scott]

My local informal running group (runs organised via social media) have just advised that for Wednesdays run they will be printing a qr code and asking people to check in on the app.

What's the point if you're all outside (which I assume you are)? I'd refuse.

 

[Jamiescott1]

What's the point if you're all outside (which I assume you are)? I'd refuse.

I'm not going to bother going to any of their runs where a qr code is required.
I downloaded the app at the weekend to check into a pub. Then deleted the app after I'd checked in

 

[island]

I'm not going to bother going to any of their runs where a qr code is required.
I downloaded the app at the weekend to check into a pub. Then deleted the app after I'd checked in

If you are so inclined you can cancel or delete check-ins on the app.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are some silly ones. If you go into a motorway service station to have a wee with a mask on throughout you are very unlikely to pick it up.

I think it needs a "check out" feature.

 

[Smidster]

There are some silly ones. If you go into a motorway service station to have a wee with a mask on throughout you are very unlikely to pick it up.

I think it needs a "check out" feature.

I did find it a little silly wandering round town over the weekend with almost every shop displaying a QR code.

It is one thing if you are going to a hospitality venue or something like a gym where you will spend a substantial period of time but for going into a corner shop to pick up the newspaper strikes as overkill.

 

[A Challenge]

Are shops required to have a QR code?

 

[_toommm_]

Are shops required to have a QR code?

They’re not. If there’s a cafe or restaurant inside of said shop, then the cafe or restaurant is obliged to.

 

[jfollows]

Interesting to see that the French "StopCovid" app has been a flop, perhaps because it's built around the centralised model originally proposed by the NHS here but subsequently dropped here in favour of the decentralised approach. A new version of the French app is due to be released on October 22nd. but will still be using the same centralised data collection approach as before. Also I saw that the French PM admitted that he didn't have the original app because he didn't need it, since he never uses the Métro; he's said he'll download the new one. Although I don't see the UK app as much of a success, perhaps the ability to use it with the QR codes for restaurants makes a difference too, which is something the French government is considering implementing.

Quote from https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...-more-interactive-StopCovid-app-on-October-22

13 October 2020
The French StopCovid app has been downloaded 2.6 million times, but has not been considered a success
By Hannah Thompson

A new, “more interactive, dynamic and effective” version of the StopCovid track and trace app is set to be released in France on October 22.

Why, and how will it differ from the first version? We explain.

First version less successful than hoped

The first version of the app was released on June 2. It was intended to monitor interactions between users via Bluetooth, and send an anonymised alert if someone they had been in contact with - meaning, within one metre of them for 15 minutes or more - was later diagnosed with Covid-19.

Overall, the app has not been considered a success, and has been installed just 2.6 million times in France. This is compared to the counterpart apps being used in the UK (16 million downloads) and in Germany (18 million).

Junior digital affairs minister Cédric O has said that the application was not working “well”, in the sense that it had not been widely received by the public due to a “lack of confidence”.

Is the new app completely different?

No, but it has been described as a major update to the current version, and more “dynamic and interactive”.

It may change its name, from the current StopCovid to AlerteCovid (and not "TéléCovid", as Prime Minister Jean Castex said in error last week). This has still not been confirmed for sure, however, as “AlerteCovid” is also the name of the Canadian app, so this change could cause confusion.

Technologically, there will be no change. The app will be downloaded, stored and updated in the same way as before - on your smartphone.

The time after which you will receive an alert could now change from 15 minutes to five minutes, with this still set to be confirmed by Santé Publique France.

What about my data?

The new app will use the same data collection system as before - an anonymised centralised system created by INRIA, the French Institute for Research in Computer Science and Automation. This is in contrast to other versions, including those used in the UK and Germany, which use the decentralised protocol by companies Apple and Google. France refused to use this.

Mr O has this week repeated that “StopCovid has taken steps to protect the data of its users, and does not use, in any case, geolocalisation”.

All data collected by the app is anonymised, and even if an alert is sent to one of your contacts, it will not identify who has Covid, who was in contact with them, where, or when.

How will the new app be used?

The app may be used in future by the government to share information on Covid-19, the Prime Minister said, as a way to make it more interactive and efficient.

Currently - except in case of an infection alert - once it is installed, it stays almost silent and out of sight, which means that it may be easy to forget about it.

But the government has ruled out the sending of “local alerts” - for example, if cases of Covid-19 were rising in a certain area.

In contrast, there could soon be QR codes displayed at the entrance of bars, restaurants, shops and sports halls, which the app can scan to become even more effective at tracing cases. This would also remove the need for businesses to collect client data manually, as they do currently.

This QR code system is used in countries including the UK. It collects the time, date, and data of the visiting customer, so the establishment can contact them in future in case of a possible spread.

Do I have to use different apps when travelling?

Yes. Currently the apps from each separate country do not interact with each other or share data, so if you need to travel between countries you are advised to download the app specific to the country you are in.

Is the app obligatory?

No. It is recommended, but not mandatory, even for businesses that are open to the public.

Mr O said: “Downloading it will stay on a voluntary basis.”

Anything else we should know?

This will have almost no impact on the user experience of the app, but the government has opened the app’s maintenance project to competitors this week. Until now, it has been operated by CapGemini, for free.

The maintenance of the app is said to cost €200,000-300,000 per month, according to news source L’Obs in June.
And, this time, Prime Minister Castex has said that he intends to download the app and use it. He admitted that he had not downloaded the previous version.

 

[A Challenge]

One of my friends who is at Liverpool University has said he's been getting many more than 2 notifications a day - more like 20. So far he hasn't had any recommending him to self isolate, but given he seemed surprised when I suggested that it might be better if he turned it off while in his flat and there are a load of people self-isolating there at the moment, I can't imagine they are even genuine contacts!

 

[MDB1images]

One of my friends who is at Liverpool University has said he's been getting many more than 2 notifications a day - more like 20. So far he hasn't had any recommending him to self isolate, but given he seemed surprised when I suggested that it might be better if he turned it off while in his flat and there are a load of people self-isolating there at the moment, I can't imagine they are even genuine contacts!

A work collegue lives near St Helens and has had 5 notification this week.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A work collegue lives near St Helens and has had 5 notification this week.

I've had 2 in total. Which I've probably picked up by being next to someone in a petrol station queue or something. They come up if your phone has ever seen another phone (at any distance within Bluetooth range) which was later marked infected.

The notification includes a date, which you can't see if the phone is vertical but you can if you turn it horizontal before it disappears. I'll do that with the next one and see if I can work out a pattern.

 

[adc82140]

OK technical question: what is the average range of Bluetooth?

 

[birchesgreen]

I had my first notification yesterday, but it was only to tell me i was now in a HIGH risk area. Love the speed of this news service!

 

[Yew]

The notification includes a date, which you can't see if the phone is vertical but you can if you turn it horizontal before it disappears. I'll do that with the next one and see if I can work out a pattern.

Truly world beating!

 

[Trackman]

OK technical question: what is the average range of Bluetooth?

10 metres (class 2 mobile phone)

 

[nlogax]

It is one thing if you are going to a hospitality venue or something like a gym where you will spend a substantial period of time but for going into a corner shop to pick up the newspaper strikes as overkill.

I only check in at pubs and restaurants, ie places where I’m spending a fair amount of time. Checking in at shops is indeed complete overkill unless you like spending an hour at Tesco milling around for no apparent reason.

 

[david1212]

Are shops required to have a QR code?

They’re not. If there’s a cafe or restaurant inside of said shop, then the cafe or restaurant is obliged to.

I only check in at pubs and restaurants, ie places where I’m spending a fair amount of time. Checking in at shops is indeed complete overkill unless you like spending an hour at Tesco milling around for no apparent reason.

Yesterday though QR code laminates by the sanitiser at the entry to two charity shops. If for staff / volunteers logically it would be in their private area or behind the counter.

For supermarkets, large stores etc even if there an hour ( excluding cafe ) the time when near any other individual shopper would be very brief so totally different to those at the next table in a cafe, pub or restaurant, time with the same staff member at hairdresser, beautician etc.

 

[IanXC]

I only check in at pubs and restaurants, ie places where I’m spending a fair amount of time. Checking in at shops is indeed complete overkill unless you like spending an hour at Tesco milling around for no apparent reason.

Same. As far as I'm concerned I check in at a place people might remove their face covering. Face coverings always on? No check in.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

How is the app going? Has the entire population downloaded it now or was there an initial surge and then not much interest?

Haven't seen any media articles one way or the other since the initial launch.

 

[Richard Scott]

How is the app going? Has the entire population downloaded it now or was there an initial surge and then not much interest?

Haven't seen any media articles one way or the other since the initial launch.

I haven't downloaded it so at best it's entire nation minus one!

 

[bspahh]

How is the app going? Has the entire population downloaded it now or was there an initial surge and then not much interest?

As of October 7th, the app has been downloaded 16,510,512 times according to

Weekly statistics for NHS Test and Trace (England) and coronavirus testing (UK): 1 October to 7 October

www.gov.uk

 

[johnnychips]

Strangely I have noticed in pubs like Greene King and Wetherspoon who have their own apps and/or QR code do not ask you to download it, whereas non-chain pubs that write your name and phone number on a piece of paper ask you to, but don’t bother if you don’t.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Theres a few pubs i go in that make you sign in with the NHS app.
I quite like the pubs otherwise they wouldn't get my custom (altho I did report 1 to the police for their mask sign not mentioning exemptions).
I usually download the app l, check in and show ive checked in then delete the app straight away

 

[Bantamzen]

It seems there is to be an update to the app's algorithms to reduce the risk score that it uses to warn people to self-isolate:

NHS Covid-19 app to issue more self-isolate alerts

Officials have decided to lower the threshold at which stay-at-home notifications are served to users.

www.bbc.co.uk

An update to England and Wales' contact-tracing app is set to serve more self-isolation alerts.
Gaby Appleton - who recently took over NHS Covid-19 - said this was being done to help tackle the spread of the coronavirus.
The change coincides with a change to the app's algorithm to make its contact-matches more reliable.
The Health Secretary previously voiced concern about people being told to stay at home because of false alerts.
As a result, the app had required a higher risk score to be calculated before triggering a self-isolate command.
The new director of product for Test and Trace said her team was so confident in the improvements made to distance estimates that it had moved the level at which notifications were triggered even lower than first planned.
"The update to the risk threshold is expected to increase the number of people asked to self-isolate by the app, having been in close contact with someone who tested positive," Gaby Appleton blogged.
"We believe lowering the threshold is necessary to reduce the R rate and break the chain of transmission."
One risk is that if people start receiving more alerts they may become less willing to obey them.
Privacy protections built into the software mean officials cannot see who it has told to self-isolate, and users cannot be fined for ignoring the app's guidance.

Version 3.9 of NHS Covid-19 takes advantage of a filtering process called Unscented Kalman Smoother, to screen out suspect readings.
The technique can be used for the first time as Apple and Google - which provide the underlying technology behind the app - have made it possible to scrutinise more of the Bluetooth data that is gathered to identify when two users are in close proximity.
In simple terms, the app can now determine when the inferred distance between two handsets has rapidly fluctuated over a short timespan - for example being measured as being 2m, then 10m, then 3m, then 8m - within 15 minutes.
Since this is not the way people normally interact with each other, the algorithm now takes this into account when calculating its risk score.
Experts from the Alan Turing Institute - who have been helping improve the app - believe it is now close to, or perhaps even more accurate than, the original abandoned effort that did not rely on Apple and Google's framework.
They believe further improvements can still be made.
But the short-term consequence of the upgrade is that they believe the app will be able to confidently identify more high-risk cases, and thus trigger more notifications.
That could prove controversial since users who are on low incomes can claim £500 from their local authority when ordered to self-isolate by a manual contact tracer, but there is no current way to get the payment if instructed to isolate by their handset.

Now on face value at least, this might make sense if the app is going to disregard what are potentially random interactions, i.e. people not spending extended amounts of time interacting but moving in & out of their personal space. However the risk is that it will simply lead to a lot more people being told to isolate when they might actually not be at risk. I shall be monitoring chatter about this update across the web, but my finger is now hovering above the "uninstall" button.