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Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

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The Bristol to Swindon trains are entirely XC services, XC trains, XC crews no GWR involvement at all.

Was at the station yesterday and one of the XC services on the shuttle was announced by the station staff as "the xx:xx CrossCountry on behalf of Great Western Railway service" which is kinda correct but obviously something they took upon themselves to announce.
 
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XCTurbostar

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Possibility of increase in 2+4’s on Cardiff – Swansea and Exeter – Penzance services,
I'm guessing this is the 5 HST Trailers that ran to Laira yesterday?
Since the HSTs still have ATP, would it not make sense to run these into Paddington?
 

55002

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Seems to be an issue with up trains into Paddington at minute, few at standstill..
 

robbeech

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Except presumably GWR-only tickets are valid?
It would be a bit daft if they weren't!
I wouldn't put anything past anyone nowadays. Anyone for a Penalty fare for using a Northern ticket on a northern train with a northern guard and driver and no PIS to say it is actually a TPE service?
 

Qwerty133

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Plymouth to London via Birmingham. Crikey. 3 and a half hours to Birmingham. 20 minutes at New St then hour or so to Euston. Thats nearly 5 hours. And my point is people with reserved seats, ie disabled, lose them. So my neighbour for example is cancelling his trip as he cannot guarantee a seat on a train now.

I'm not asking Rail North to give up its entire 802 fleet but where they to spare 3 or 4 then a Plymouth to Reading shuttle could perhaps run every couple of hours or so.
The problem is you are effectively asking them to give them all up before too long. There is a active line of thought that whilst the issue would have eventually occurred on whichever line the units were working on there is a particular issue with the infrastructure on the GWML that has speeded up the process which is the reason for the proportion of units available being so much lower at GWR than any other operator.
 

37424

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Except presumably GWR-only tickets are valid?
It would be a bit daft if they weren't!
Will XC staff even be bothering to check tickets on these services? it always seems to me that in times of major disruption guards/revenue staff on trains seem to go into hiding.
 
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Brissle Girl

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I wouldn't put anything past anyone nowadays. Anyone for a Penalty fare for using a Northern ticket on a northern train with a northern guard and driver and no PIS to say it is actually a TPE service?
XC has confirmed that Group Save tickets are valid, so I think we can conclude that the sensible approach is being taken.
 

Bikeman78

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Do trains in Belgium have standard cab layout and equipment? It is not very big and has a different history.
No, the cabs in the class 22/23/25 built in the 1950s/1960s are similar but nothing like the Alstom class 13s built in 1997. As to why it's allowed, they are rather more relaxed about Health and Safety over there. It's only recently that they've started putting up fences along railway lines.
 

AdamWW

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I wouldn't put anything past anyone nowadays. Anyone for a Penalty fare for using a Northern ticket on a northern train with a northern guard and driver and no PIS to say it is actually a TPE service?

That's taking the PIS.
 

Bletchleyite

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I wouldn't put anything past anyone nowadays. Anyone for a Penalty fare for using a Northern ticket on a northern train with a northern guard and driver and no PIS to say it is actually a TPE service?

Did that actually happen? If so I'd have taken a load of photographs of the train etc and let it get to Court.
 

cf111

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I'm guessing this is the 5 HST Trailers that ran to Laira yesterday?
Since the HSTs still have ATP, would it not make sense to run these into Paddington?
Would many Paddington or Reading(?) drivers still have competency on HSTs?
 

YorksLad12

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I'm not asking Rail North to give up its entire 802 fleet but where they to spare 3 or 4 then a Plymouth to Reading shuttle could perhaps run every couple of hours or so.
Who is this "Rail North" of which you speak? Rail North Ltd. was wound up when TfN took over co-management of the Northern & TPE franchises through the Rail North Partnership. It doesn't own, finance or lease stock and shortly won't have any franchises to co-manage either.
 

JN114

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Would many Paddington or Reading(?) drivers still have competency on HSTs?

Zero

Edit:- sorry I read that as “How Many” not “Would Many”.

No, Paddington lapsed their HST competency by summer 2019; Reading haven’t had it for 10+ years.

Bristol, Exeter, Plymouth are your options really for Castle Knowledge and Paddington Route knowledge.

But the castle fleet is already flat out covering its own work + some additionals in the West Country. Running to London is going to “cost” a lot of sets, and therefore cause a lot of cancellations.

It requires changes; but the West Country isn’t cut off. Pewsey remains the only GWR station completely unserved by some form of alternative rail services.
 

robert thomas

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GWR are in the hands of Hitatchi and can do nothing to progress the return of the 800s without Hitatchi returning trains to traffic.
 

800001

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Not sure if what I share below has been posted on here, but I think this shows how serious the issue is, and that it will be a long job to sort all units:-

Longest crack found so far = 285mm,
86 out of 93 trains affected (mixture of yaw damper and lifting pocket issues),
7000 grade aluminium which requires highly specialist welding to the point it will have to be overseen by The Welding Institute (TWI),
Intention for 800013 to have first welding and be tested, 800026 to have parts removed for analysis,
Any work or assessments will be overseen by an independent party (Ricardo Rail), so there can be no accusation of Hitachi/GWR ‘marking their own work’,
Nothing will be underwritten that is not safe,
Process/work to follow this sign-off procedure:
GWR/Hitachi,
Ricardo Rail,
ORR/DfT,
Work being done, and the process followed for safety validation, etc, to be communicated out to GWR staff via the FastLine for reassurance, etc,
Strict criteria for return into service will be put in place,
No exact/precise roadmap for return of trains, but as it stands only 8 would be available today,
The concern is that metal would come free from the set at high speed, rather than a structural failure being encountered,
Will be looking at whether this has been caused or exasperated in some way by infrastructure issues in the Western Region (track issues) by the use of instrument trains when possible.
 

Master29

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Not sure if what I share below has been posted on here, but I think this shows how serious the issue is, and that it will be a long job to sort all units:-

Longest crack found so far = 285mm,
86 out of 93 trains affected (mixture of yaw damper and lifting pocket issues),
7000 grade aluminium which requires highly specialist welding to the point it will have to be overseen by The Welding Institute (TWI),
Intention for 800013 to have first welding and be tested, 800026 to have parts removed for analysis,
Any work or assessments will be overseen by an independent party (Ricardo Rail), so there can be no accusation of Hitachi/GWR ‘marking their own work’,
Nothing will be underwritten that is not safe,
Process/work to follow this sign-off procedure:
GWR/Hitachi,
Ricardo Rail,
ORR/DfT,
Work being done, and the process followed for safety validation, etc, to be communicated out to GWR staff via the FastLine for reassurance, etc,
Strict criteria for return into service will be put in place,
No exact/precise roadmap for return of trains, but as it stands only 8 would be available today,
The concern is that metal would come free from the set at high speed, rather than a structural failure being encountered,
Will be looking at whether this has been caused or exasperated in some way by infrastructure issues in the Western Region (track issues) by the use of instrument trains when possible.
Thanks for a very good analysis. This makes things even poorer from the procurement point of view.
 

adc82140

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Seems as though the current consists are being split - I can imagine they’ll be used in a common pool with the GWR units on Swindon services then?
Are the C2C 387 cabs different? If so it would make sense to have GWR cabs on the outer ends.
 

Ianno87

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Haven't Grand Central just restarted services on the ECML? Bet those 180s are going to be busy!

Why would they be? LNER aren't far from their ordinarily planned level of service, relatively few trains are cancelled.
 

gg1

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Apologies if this has already been asked but what's involved in certifying a driver to drive a different class of unit/loco, and how long does the process take?

If (and I know it's a huge if) alternate suitable stock became available, for how long would the 80xs have to be out of traffic for a TOC to consider this a worthwhile and feasible option?
 

43102EMR

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Are the cabs different? If so it would make sense to have GWR cabs on the outer ends.
They were built to (almost) the same spec as GWR’s as they were part of Porterbrook’s speculative build order (some of GWR’s were as well I believe but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) - the main difference is the pantograph.
 

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DriverEight

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Why would they be? LNER aren't far from their ordinarily planned level of service, relatively few trains are cancelled.
People book journeys in advance. If I was looking to book a journey to or from London or the North East last week, I would have booked it with Grand Central. Even now, LNER will be operating under a cloud. Why risk a cancellation on LNER? People on this forum with knowledge of the railways may know what's going on, but the general public will only have heard horror stories on the news of safety issues, broken trains and entire fleets withdrawn from service. This has been a public relations catastrophe for LNER and it's something they won't recover from quickly
 
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