Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

[AdamWW]

People book journeys in advance. If I was looking to book a journey to or from London or the North East last week, I would have booked it with Grand Central. Even now, LNER will be operating under a cloud. Why risk a cancellation on LNER? People on this forum with knowledge of the railways may know what's going on, but the general public will only have heard horror stories on the news of safety issues, broken trains and entire fleets withdrawn from service. This has been a public relations catastrophe for LNER and it's something they won't recover from quickly

The people I talked to at work today hadn't even heard of the problem.
And this is somewhere that 800's provide the service to London.

 

[Railcar]

To add to the misery, today (Tuesday 11th May) around lunchtime there was a problem that prevented the few trains that were running from reaching Paddington.

I was at Reading station at about 1pm. The displays were full of cancellations (including TfL Rail) but there were no notices to say what was going on. A couple of announcements were made on the PA but they were appalling - blurted out and impossible to understand. The only aim of the announcer was to get through the message as fast as he could. The staff I asked had no clue either.

In the end, I walked round to the Land of the Third Rail and took a train to Clapham Junction.

 

[Ianno87]

People book journeys in advance. If I was looking to book a journey to or from London or the North East last week, I would have booked it with Grand Central. Even now, LNER will be operating under a cloud. Why risk a cancellation on LNER?

Because you'll either be able to rebook.on another train, or get a refund.

People on this forum with knowledge of the railways may know what's going on, but the general public will only have heard horror stories on the news of safety issues, broken trains and entire fleets withdrawn from service.

Good job it's not even close to the entire LNER fleet then isn't it?

This has been a public relations catastrophe for LNER and it's something they won't recover from quickly

Not really.

 

[VP185]

Apologies if this has already been asked but what's involved in certifying a driver to drive a different class of unit/loco, and how long does the process take?

If (and I know it's a huge if) alternate suitable stock became available, for how long would the 80xs have to be out of traffic for a TOC to consider this a worthwhile and feasible option?

For traction:
Someone has to write a full traction course. Includes manuals and fault guides (some material may be readily available)
Classroom based training, maybe a week, depending how different the traction is.
Train handling with an instructor (a minimum of 20 hours depending on how different the traction is to what drivers already sign)
A final written pass out exam (1 day)
A final ride assessment (1 day).

All in all, 2 to 3 weeks. Obviously the number of instructors and trainers you have will affect how long it takes to train a whole depot

 

[Goldfish62]

To add to the misery, today (Tuesday 11th May) around lunchtime there was a problem that prevented the few trains that were running from reaching Paddington.

I was at Reading station at about 1pm. The displays were full of cancellations (including TfL Rail) but there were no notices to say what was going on. A couple of announcements were made on the PA but they were appalling - blurted out and impossible to understand. The only aim of the announcer was to get through the message as fast as he could. The staff I asked had no clue either.

In the end, I walked round to the Land of the Third Rail and took a train to Clapham Junction.

Points failure and failed freight train somewhere east of Hayes.

 

[800001]

To add to the misery, today (Tuesday 11th May) around lunchtime there was a problem that prevented the few trains that were running from reaching Paddington.

I was at Reading station at about 1pm. The displays were full of cancellations (including TfL Rail) but there were no notices to say what was going on. A couple of announcements were made on the PA but they were appalling - blurted out and impossible to understand. The only aim of the announcer was to get through the message as fast as he could. The staff I asked had no clue either.

In the end, I walked round to the Land of the Third Rail and took a train to Clapham Junction.

Signal faults

 

[matacaster]

When a unit is jacked up are the Jack's synchronised such that the whole body is effectively level as it is raised? I am wondering if uneven application of Jack's might cause a twisting motion on the body. Expert thoughts please?

 

[Failed Unit]

The people I talked to at work today hadn't even heard of the problem.
And this is somewhere that 800's provide the service to London.

Making mischief. LNER don’t operate many 800’s. They are Azuma’s. I have never used an 800 on LNER. (Will get my coat)

 

[Sunset route]

With a trip planned to York and then on to Scotland for the West Highland Way then returning home to the south east I’m watching with great interest how LNER are getting on with their Azuma’s medium to long term, but this does seem to be a long term problem at the moment.

 

[geoffk]

I'd echo other comments that GWR and others (XC) have been working flat out to arrange alternatives, replan timetables yet again, train 387 guards etc. and they deserve thanks for that.

I agree that GWR have put together a replacement timetable in record time, assisted by Cross-Country, Chiltern and South Western either with ticket acceptance or actual trains. Fortunate perhaps that this has happened at a time when timetable and patronage are at reduced levels, but next week's timetable change sees an uplift on some routes while passenger numbers can be expected to grow as more Covid restrictions are lifted.

 

[Goldfish62]

I agree that GWR have put together a replacement timetable in record time, assisted by Cross-Country, Chiltern and South Western either with ticket acceptance or actual trains. Fortunate perhaps that this has happened at a time when timetable and patronage are at reduced levels, but next week's timetable change sees an uplift on some routes while passenger numbers can be expected to grow as more Covid restrictions are lifted.

SWR are not currently running any through trains to Exeter. A change at Salisbury is required, then a skeleton service on to Exeter. From next week an hourly through service is restored so that should be a significant help.

 

[800001]

With a trip planned to York and then on to Scotland for the West Highland Way then returning home to the south east I’m watching with great interest how LNER are getting on with their Azuma’s medium to long term, but this does seem to be a long term problem at the moment.

Watch this space, vast majority or lner units should see return to service by weekend, with mitigation process in place to manage the cracks.

 

[Sporty60]

Where's Clarence Yard when you need him?

 

[geoffk]

SWR are not currently running any through trains to Exeter. A change at Salisbury is required, then a skeleton service on to Exeter. From next week ab hourly through service is restored so that should be a significant help.

Indeed. The 12.56 to Salisbury today had a reasonable load from St. Davids and picked up a lot more at Central, many having luggage so more likely bound for London than, say, Axminster. The staff at St. Davids were recommending going via Salisbury rather than Bristol, as the latter route would require two changes, at Temple Meads and Swindon.

 

[BayPaul]

Where's Clarence Yard when you need him?

Something tells me that he is exactly where we need him - helping sort out this mess!

 

[DriverEight]

Because you'll either be able to rebook.on another train, or get a refund.




Good job it's not even close to the entire LNER fleet then isn't it?



Not really.

According to a story in a York newspaper 3 days ago, LNER were advising people not to travel on their services. The story went on to say that ALL Hitachi 800 type trains had been withdrawn from service. Whether or not that is factually accurate is neither here nor there, people will believe it. They won't go hunting around for second opinions or researching facts and figures, they'll simply accept what they're being told in the press. So, yes, it's a PR disaster for LNER, GWR, Hull Trains and anyone else that relies on Hitachi 800s. They've been banging on about their amazing new trains, and now, in the eyes of the public, it's come back to bite them on the backside

 

[thelongestroad]

For traction:
Someone has to write a full traction course. Includes manuals and fault guides (some material may be readily available)
Classroom based training, maybe a week, depending how different the traction is.
Train handling with an instructor (a minimum of 20 hours depending on how different the traction is to what drivers already sign)
A final written pass out exam (1 day)
A final ride assessment (1 day).

All in all, 2 to 3 weeks. Obviously the number of instructors and trainers you have will affect how long it takes to train a whole depot

And that is even before you consider the implications of the COVID secure safe method of working, i.e training bubbles etc.

 

[800001]

Should start to see some trains starting to return to service over the next few days.

All TOCs have met with DFT and Orr today to agree a process for going forward, this will allow units to enter service with the cracks in place but with a process in place to monitor and ensure it is still safe for train to be in service.
Not aware of any process to repair yet.

 

[Failed Unit]

Should start to see some trains starting to return to service over the next few days.

All TOCs have met with DFT and Orr today to agree a process for going forward, this will allow units to enter service with the cracks in place but with a process in place to monitor and ensure it is still safe for train to be in service.
Not aware of any process to repair yet.

Thanks for your contributions. It does seem a pragmatic approach. I am sure some of these trains were happily running around with the cracks for a number of weeks. Not good of course but if the outcome is say below 3mm watch it. Above 3mm take it out could help. I see tomorrows cancellation list is pretty much all bi-modes. (Includes the 5 cars)

 

[800001]

Thanks for your contributions. It does seem a pragmatic approach. I am sure some of these trains were happily running around with the cracks for a number of weeks. Not good of course but if the outcome is say below 3mm watch it. Above 3mm take it out could help. I see tomorrows cancellation list is pretty much all bi-modes.

Yes, they have to majority of cracks, there is 2 more 8002 bimodes in use tomorrow including return of 1A15 Harrogate to London.

 

[AdamWW]

According to a story in a York newspaper 3 days ago, LNER were advising people not to travel on their services. The story went on to say that ALL Hitachi 800 type trains had been withdrawn from service. Whether or not that is factually accurate is neither here nor there, people will believe it. They won't go hunting around for second opinions or researching facts and figures, they'll simply accept what they're being told in the press. So, yes, it's a PR disaster for LNER, GWR, Hull Trains and anyone else that relies on Hitachi 800s. They've been banging on about their amazing new trains, and now, in the eyes of the public, it's come back to bite them on the backside

I really don't know what "the public" think, but I don't believe my friends/family/work colleagues pay that sort of attention.

Some people I know (who do use trains) refer to all current operators as "British Rail".

Once this is sorted out I doubt they will decide not to use trains because there was a while that services were badly disrupted.

GWR, by the way, has been much more low key than LNER about their new trains...despite the fact that unlike LNER they have (partially) replaced a diesel with electric service.

Thanks for your contributions. It does seem a pragmatic approach. I am sure some of these trains were happily running around with the cracks for a number of weeks.

It would seem very likely that they have been present at some level for quite a while.

It was the "Nothing has gone wrong so far..." attitude that led NASA to lose a shuttle and its crew.

 

[rebmcr]

When a unit is jacked up are the Jack's synchronised such that the whole body is effectively level as it is raised? I am wondering if uneven application of Jack's might cause a twisting motion on the body. Expert thoughts please?

That would manifest as issues with units from a particular depot — not an entire fleet, and certainly not on completely separate mainlines.

 

[24Grange]

And that is even before you consider the implications of the COVID secure safe method of working, i.e training bubbles etc.

Can you have 2 people in the cab in the current circumstances -for training ? or do they have to be "bubbled" or what ever is current.

 

[sonic2009]

Watch this space, vast majority or lner units should see return to service by weekend, with mitigation process in place to manage the cracks.

So my hope for my Azuma trip for Sunday may still be on?

Going up to Inverness and then back from Aberdeen on Wednesday

Great to have inside knowledge though thanks to everyone who's contributed to answering so many questions.

 

[snowball]

When a unit is jacked up are the Jack's synchronised such that the whole body is effectively level as it is raised?

Yes, there's a video advertising Mechan jacks somewhere within the last few pages of the thread.

 

[matacaster]

Yes, there's a video advertising Mechan jacks somewhere within the last few pages of the thread.

Thanks!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2021 ==

That would manifest as issues with units from a particular depot — not an entire fleet, and certainly not on completely separate mainlines.

Thank you much appreciated.

 

[gg1]

For traction:
Someone has to write a full traction course. Includes manuals and fault guides (some material may be readily available)
Classroom based training, maybe a week, depending how different the traction is.
Train handling with an instructor (a minimum of 20 hours depending on how different the traction is to what drivers already sign)
A final written pass out exam (1 day)
A final ride assessment (1 day).

All in all, 2 to 3 weeks. Obviously the number of instructors and trainers you have will affect how long it takes to train a whole depot

Thanks, interesting to know.

 

[43102EMR]

Realtime Trains - 521N 1206 Db Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs to Reading D.M.U.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2021 ==

Tomorrow’s working up for the c2c 387/3 move to Reading depot

 

[ash39]

One thing I'd like to know more about is the amount of cracks being dealt with.

I might have my maths slightly wrong but as I understand it GwR have something like 2 units operating and 91 out of use. Of the 91 found with cracks, are we talking about 1 crack on 1 vehicle per set, multiple cracks on a vehicle, multiple cracks across all 5/9 vehicles, or a mixture of the three?

 

[philosopher]

Indeed. The 12.56 to Salisbury today had a reasonable load from St. Davids and picked up a lot more at Central, many having luggage so more likely bound for London than, say, Axminster. The staff at St. Davids were recommending going via Salisbury rather than Bristol, as the latter route would require two changes, at Temple Meads and Swindon.

Can SWR run more direct trains from Waterloo to Bristol?