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Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

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hwl

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This copied from BBC news, not a case of pointing a TIG welder at it then !!
With Aluminium repairs you would are looking at AC TIG welding rather than the more common DC TIG Welding. The AC TIG equipment is 5x more expensive and really doesn't agree with electrical equipment, hence Roger's comments.

Given the depth of the cracks welding could just be described as the equivalent of not much more than papering over the cracks and would be a temporary fix.
 
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Snow1964

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I see Gareth Dennis has popped up again: https://twitter.com/GarethDennis/status/1390970785817403393?s=19



Not entirely sure what grounds this speculation is based on given what we officially know so far. Especially since IETs have never at any point been "electric only"

Maybe it is a dig at not finishing electrification of lines, so need to carry around a diesel (even if turned off)

From a technical point of view, they are bolted beneath underframes, so increase weight (and thus load being swung around on poor track) on the yaw dampers. Being so low their centre of gravity is below the body mount of the yaw damper so any movement is more like a heavy pendulum.

It could be the pendulum effect that is contributing to the cracks if they were designed more for steadying the body, than a body with a huge lump of metal hanging from it.
 

REVUpminster

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Down here in Devon 1A71 ran earlier and I saw on Dawlish cams 1A60 (not on realtrains) at 11.05. The "Devon Metro" is running normally with 150s, 158's and a 166 and the 2 car 165 is running a shuttle between Exeter and Newton Abbot.

Amend that the 165 has just gone into Exeter depot at 13.12
 

Thunderer

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I’m sure if you write to them they’ll be more than happy to share their opinions on this with you.
As much as I appreciate the humour/sarcasm, I wouldn’t waste time or paper writing to any TOC or train manufacturer to get a political, bog standard, obtuse reply.
 

Bletchleyite

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They're protecting the "Azuma" brand, which makes sense given how much it's been promoted. That's nothing to do with the ownership.

FWIW I'd suggest "due to urgent safety checks on our trains" is probably a reasonable way of explaining it to the public. The use of the word "safety" will itself bring understanding.

"An unexpected number of trains needing maintenance at the same time" just gives rise to "well, what incompetence led to that?" - which isn't the situation at all.

Im not overly surprised with this fault. Having ridden on the GWR IEP’s many times, I find they have poor suspension and they are very ‘clunky’ over bad track sections and point work.

Pacers ride like an absolute cart but don't suffer this problem. It's not about the ride.
 

Chris217

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Never had these problems with 47s/55s /HST's on air cons on the ECML.
Or indeed 47s/50s HSTs on the GWML.

How times have moved on.
Not always for the better tho eh?
 

robbeech

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FWIW I'd suggest "due to urgent safety checks on our trains" is probably a reasonable way of explaining it to the public. The use of the word "safety" will itself bring understanding.

"An unexpected number of trains needing maintenance at the same time" just gives rise to "well, what incompetence led to that?" - which isn't the situation at all.



Pacers ride like an absolute cart but don't suffer this problem. It's not about the ride.
I think a valid point is raised with the naming. They move heaven and earth to refer to them as the Azuma on a normal day but they’re strictly class 800 Hitachi trains today, leading many regular people to question if the Azumas are unaffected, usually to no reply. Clearly this is deliberate and very unhelpful but there’s little point complaining about it. They’ve taken the attitude they have for whatever reason they have and that is how it is.
 

Darandio

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Never had these problems with 47s/55s /HST's on air cons on the ECML.
Or indeed 47s/50s HSTs on the GWML.

How times have moved on.
Not always for the better tho eh?

Not these problems no, plenty of other problems with that stock though!
 

CBlue

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Never had these problems with 47s/55s /HST's on air cons on the ECML.
Or indeed 47s/50s HSTs on the GWML.

How times have moved on.
Not always for the better tho eh?
Instead we had overheating issues with HST's, 47s that ate engines until they were derated and 50s that, er, had the joke attached to them of being "fifty-fifty's" as that was your chance of actually making it to your destination. Don't pretend they weren't faultless, please.
 

py_megapixel

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To the people talking about the old British-built stock being better engineered, I should remind you that the specification for these was almost certainly determined by an excellent example of what seems to be typical British engineering these days - that is, engineering contracts to deliver the absolute possible lowest cost-to-good-exposure ratio (!)

(Also, the units were assembled in the UK, so there's that ;))
 

RPI

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Never had these problems with 47s/55s /HST's on air cons on the ECML.
Or indeed 47s/50s HSTs on the GWML.

How times have moved on.
Not always for the better tho eh?
Hmmmm a quick Google and you'll find plenty of evidence of 50's failing or HST'S being dragged by locos!
 

Class 170101

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Most journeys on East Coast can be covered not using their services. The worst bit will be between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Great Westen is worse with 'network holes' between Didcot and Bristol Parkway / Bath Spa / Gloucester, between Oxford and Worcester and between Newbury and Taunton.
 

TRAX

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All this will do doubt delay the AT300s currently being built as I expect they will try to do things differently for the next units.
 

D365

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I would hope so, but have known issues in other areas where the weight has not been taken into account. A good example would be the recent bridge collapse in Mexico. To me, it would seem that somebody did not take into account the amount of weight that the bridge structure would need to cope with trains running on it and the weather conditions that the area would see.


He possibly like me, may not be aware that vehicles without engine rafts are affected. I must confess though, I did wonder of that was the case.
Robbies, as nice as it is to see you back, I don't get what you're trying to achieve with this speculation. Train compliance certification in the UK is very strict. Before being allowed anywhere near a running line, Hitachi would have demonstrated to the safety bodies that their trains are fit for purpose.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think a valid point is raised with the naming. They move heaven and earth to refer to them as the Azuma on a normal day but they’re strictly class 800 Hitachi trains today, leading many regular people to question if the Azumas are unaffected, usually to no reply. Clearly this is deliberate and very unhelpful but there’s little point complaining about it. They’ve taken the attitude they have for whatever reason they have and that is how it is.

It is interesting to compare the two. GWR/FGW I have always found to be very strong in terms of operations and engineering, but often don't make themselves look good in terms of the soft product (other than the very nice livery) - in many ways, before the 80x and EMUs showed up, it just felt like BR painted a different colour. LNER seems to push image over all else, which is an attitude that seems to have been inherited from Virgin and may well indeed be led from the top by Horne. I found that to some extent EMT "felt" the same when he was over there. A bit like the way any bus company that has or has had anything to do with Alex Hornby is always big on image.

It's a bit ironic that GWR is the privatised one, as from feel I'd definitely see them as the other way round.
 

Anonymous10

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Been to Didcot on one of the fast 378s. 800002 has just pulled in (in passenger service) heading for Swansea. That’s the first in-service 80x I’ve seen all day.
i can see them after passing the check basically being thrown onto routes which cover most stops likely why the Swansea service is the first as covers the most of the gwml and south wales main line bar the occasional service to Carmarthen hopefully this issue is resolved soon but is a little worrying such new trains have these issues
 

stonojnr

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What I don't get is how brand new trains can have such a catastrophic failure/fault.

With all the R&D that happens these days and with all the technology we have how could such a issue not be found in the design & testing process?

because the design & manufacturing meets a spec and assuming not a general manufacturing glitch, maybe the spec doesnt allow for as much margin of tolerance these days precisely because we use technology to be more precise on these things than we would have 30-40 years ago.

see the new Greater Anglia trains as an example on not mixing that well with signalling/level crossing systems from a different era to begin with.

or there was an instance few years back where the national grid had an outage, which dropped the frequency of power on the OHL, which was still within the standard tolerances expected, but that resulted in a bunch of new electric trains whose software was coded to be more precise, immediately shutting down and in some cases having to have an engineer with a laptop go reboot them.
 

Polarbear

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Never had these problems with 47s/55s /HST's on air cons on the ECML.
Or indeed 47s/50s HSTs on the GWML.

How times have moved on.
Not always for the better tho eh?
Similar problems have befallen many types of trains in the past - the 80X units are certainly not unique in that regard. HST traction motor issues/overheating, 47's being de-rated due to problems, 155's being withdrawn en-masse due to door interlock issues, various issues with 323's in their early days. There are doubtless a few others too.

The main difference is that historically, such problems generally affected fewer locos/units, and not always at the same time. Today's issue is rather more noticeable, given the number of 80X units used by a number of TOC's.
 

urpert

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Most journeys on East Coast can be covered not using their services. The worst bit will be between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Great Westen is worse with 'network holes' between Didcot and Bristol Parkway / Bath Spa / Gloucester, between Oxford and Worcester and between Newbury and Taunton.
I did idly wonder earlier if you could run a 378 as far as Bristol Parkway to plug one of those gaps.
 

ChrisC

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Agreed. The riding quality on them is not good at all - when they were reasonably new I was a regular on the ECML for a while and had runs with Mark 3s, Mark 4s and 80x over the same stretch in the space of a week. The 80x was significantly worse than the Mark 4 (which itself was wasn't up to Mark 3 standards): even on plain line the 80x was hunting badly and lost any form of ride quality over points and crossings. That poor ride, which was being restrained by the yaw dampers, would inevitably set up stresses in components, including the bodyshell in the area where the yaw dampers are attached.
This is exactly what I thought when I had my first ride on one of the new Northern 195 units. I was quite shocked at the rough ride especially when travelling over points. Similar problem I presume why these are also being checked.
 

JonathanH

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I did idly wonder earlier if you could run a 378 as far as Bristol Parkway to plug one of those gaps.
I think you mean 387. The problem is that they aren't cleared yet or have suitable traincrew for passenger work west of Didcot. They work to Swindon regularly empty from Didcot for overnight stabling.
 
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