EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[J-2739]

Okay, so an open question to Remainers:

If you were offered the opportunity to live on the continent (France/Germany/Italy etc.) once Brexit takes place, would you sell up here and move?

I mean, if the UK is going to become a tiny and insignificant country now it's no longer in the EU, why bother staying? Surely as a protest (and maybe causing a bank run) you could sell up here, take your money out of the bank and go and live in the EU again.

Some people up earlier the thread went on about this.

I suppose the continent (France, Germany) offers more job opportunities now.

Do you really see people with high job statuses coming over to the UK though?

 

[miami]

Maybe the plebs were racist, or maybe they just didn't want another Rotherham 1400 incident in their town... nah they were definitely racist, for The Guardian said so.

Rotheram, where the perpetrators were either from the UK or South Asia? And you wonder why remainers are so exasperated.

Oh yes, I remember the leaflet saying how Turkey was about to join the EU, and how Syria and Iraq were next.

 

[EM2]

Okay, so an open question to Remainers:

If you were offered the opportunity to live on the continent (France/Germany/Italy etc.) once Brexit takes place, would you sell up here and move?

I mean, if the UK is going to become a tiny and insignificant country now it's no longer in the EU, why bother staying? Surely as a protest (and maybe causing a bank run) you could sell up here, take your money out of the bank and go and live in the EU again.

If I had anything to sell (I don't, I rent) and if I could guarantee that I could get an equally well-paid position in an equivalent industry, then yes I would.
I've lived abroad before, I'd happily do it again. Malta, probably.

 

[AlterEgo]

If I had anything to sell (I don't, I rent) and if I could guarantee that I could get an equally well-paid position in an equivalent industry, then yes I would.
I've lived abroad before, I'd happily do it again. Malta, probably.

I'd move to Ireland if I found a job paying the same as I earn in Westminster.

 

[EM2]

Oh dear...

http://uk.businessinsider.com/uks-pro-brexit-fishing-industry-feels-betrayed-by-theresa-may-2016-11

Britain's fishing industry voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU — now it feels 'betrayed' by May's Brexit proposals

Britain's £1-billion fishing industry, which voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU, says it feels "betrayed" by the current course of Brexit negotiations.

A poll before the referendum suggested 92% of fishermen would vote to leave the EU, but many are now worried about Theresa May's plan to roll over the EU's much-maligned Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) into UK law.

The CFP sets rules for how many fish each EU country's boats can land. Several politicians have warned that dropping the policy will not benefit the industry, but most fishermen disagreed, believing that its restrictions are the cause of a rapidly declining UK fleet.

But Prime Minister Theresa May intends to introduce a 'Great Repeal Bill' in the wake of Brexit, which will roll over all EU law into UK law — including the CFP.

Alan Hastings, a spokesman for Brexit campaign group 'Fishing For Leave,' told Business Insider that the proposal risks "throwing the industry under a bus."

"It’s the equivalent of being told you’re leaving prison and then being told you’re actually staying. If we adopt the CFP, it will squander the opportunity that Brexit provides to rebuild the UK fishing industry," he said.

He called for an "exemption" for fisheries policy from May's plans, but accepted that looks unlikely.

He said: "Our great worry is that the government will think if they give an exemption to fisheries, they'll have to give an exemption to everything else. But if Brexit's about having a clean start, then why bother to adopt everything in the first place? To our mind it’s just a way to fudge Brexit."

A government spokesperson told Business Insider: "Our fishing industry is immensely valuable and supporting our fishermen will form an important part of our exit from the EU – this means ensuring a profitable fishing industry, sustainable stocks and a healthy marine environment.

"From the moment we leave, Parliament will be in control and able to make the changes the British people want to see," they added.

Hastings said that Fishing for Leave is planning several high-profile publicity stunts in order to "push fishing back up the agenda." In June, days before the referendum took place, Fishing for Leave organised a flotilla of boats to motor down the Thames, joined by other Brexit campaigners including Nigel Farage.

Brexit-backing curry industry says it feels ‘betrayed’ by Theresa May’s immigration clampdown

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...y-industry-theresa-may-betrayal-a7398196.html

Britain’s £4bn curry industry, which campaigned for the UK to leave EU, says it has been betrayed by politicians over immigration, in the wake of the Brexit vote.

Curry house owners are worried about the post-referendum clampdown on immigration, as they are already struggling to hire chefs from abroad and are facing mass closures.

According to a recent survey, the number of licensed curry restaurants has declined by 13 per cent in the last 18 months, with over 1,000 restaurants closing their doors for good.

The current regime requires curry house owners to pay nearly £30,000 a year to secure a visa for a chef from the subcontinent. Visa applications are often refused and the staff shortages are the main reason why restaurants are closing.

Oli Khan, chef and owner of three curry houses, said the industry is suffering a lot and feels betrayed.

He told The Independent: “It is very disappointing that Brexit campaigners such as Priti Patel and Boris Johnson, who said the curry industry would be better off the EU, have not kept their promises.”

Khan added he had to double the wages of some of his employee due to staff shortages and, pointing to the collapse in the value of the pound since the June referendum, he is expecting higher food prices.

Priti Patel, International Development Secretary, who was a leading Leave campaigner, said a Brexit vote would allow the curry industry to relax non-EU immigration rules and “save” British curry houses.

The industry was hoping that a new Australian “points-style” immigration system would allow them to hire more staff from countries such as India and Bangladesh.

However, one of Theresa May’s first announcements after becoming Prime Minister was to rule out such a system, which she thinks could increase immigration levels.

In addition, Home Seceratary Amber Rudd has pledged to bring down the overall number of migrants.

nam Ali MBE, founder, restaurateur and editor of trade publication Spice Business, has been lobbying the Government to implement a major review as current legislation continues to impact the industry.

“Staff shortages mean many of us are struggling to meet customer expectations, and it is almost impossible to expand as we would like to,” he said.

Earlier this week, Pasha Khandaker, president of the Bangladesh Caterers Association, who campaigned for Brexit, told the Financial Times he was “very disappointed” by the Government’s refusal to implement a points-based immigration system.

“I am very disappointed, when Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Priti Patel, prominent figures from the governing party, they were clearly saying that they would introduce a points-based system of immigraiton, Australia-style,” he said.

“My organisation supported Brexit for several reasons but the main reason was to bring people from abroad to help our industry to survive.”

Chris Parsons, chair of the India practice at law firm Herbert Smith Freehills, said that it would be “politically rather difficult for Theresa May and the rest of the Government to say we’re closing European immigration down but we want to encourage lots of Chinese and Indians to come in.”

 

[125Forever]

Hmmm, also a bit blinkered to turn a blind eye to what has happened in certain communities throughout the UK.

Still, as long as it's nowhere near you life goes on...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If I had anything to sell (I don't, I rent) and if I could guarantee that I could get an equally well-paid position in an equivalent industry, then yes I would.
I've lived abroad before, I'd happily do it again. Malta, probably.

A very nice country indeed, and I trialled for Marsaxlokk FC when I was 18 and holidaying there.

A lot of history there as well.

 

[507021]

Okay, so an open question to Remainers:

If you were offered the opportunity to live on the continent (France/Germany/Italy etc.) once Brexit takes place, would you sell up here and move?

I mean, if the UK is going to become a tiny and insignificant country now it's no longer in the EU, why bother staying? Surely as a protest (and maybe causing a bank run) you could sell up here, take your money out of the bank and go and live in the EU again.

If I could afford to and circumstances allowed it, yes I would.

 

[Howardh]

If I could afford to and circumstances allowed it, yes I would.

Me too. At 58 I'm hoping to be able to do so at some stage. The only thing stopping me right now is I'm caring for both my (very) elderly parents.

I do have one major worry though, my grandmother and now my mother both have/had advanced Alzheimer's and I wouldn't like to set up abroad and then become afflicted myself - always a possibility. I'd be checking the facilities where I would live and what access I would have to them; and also maintaining a small retirement flat in the UK.

Bit dark and depressing when I should be looking forward to 25 years living next to a beach!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I trialled for Marsaxlokk FC .

Any good at scrabble?

 

[furnessvale]

Total non-starter as Eastern European countries in particular will never vote to allow FOM for Uk residents with their citizens not given the FOM to come here.
Crackpot idea that will never see the light of day.

Correct. Just more mind games by the EU in the run up to negotiations.

 

[507021]

Me too. At 58 I'm hoping to be able to do so at some stage. The only thing stopping me right now is I'm caring for both my (very) elderly parents.

I do have one major worry though, my grandmother and now my mother both have/had advanced Alzheimer's and I wouldn't like to set up abroad and then become afflicted myself - always a possibility. I'd be checking the facilities where I would live and what access I would have to them; and also maintaining a small retirement flat in the UK.

Bit dark and depressing when I should be looking forward to 25 years living next to a beach!!

Like yourself I'm caring for my father and at the moment my partner isn't so keen on the idea, although she said she'd maybe be a bit more enthusiastic about it in the future. It could still happen one day, but I don't think it'll happen for at least another five or ten years at the earliest, if at all. As for where I'd like to move to in Europe, I have a few ideas but that's all it is at the moment.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother and grandmother too.

 

[Busaholic]

600,000 from memory.

Perhaps the Mail is secretly a remain paper?

No secret really - the Mail on Sunday was on the side of Remain, unlike its daily counterpart. The Times were also Remainers while the Sunday Times were (officially) Brexiteers, though many of its regular columnists and most of its Business staff appeared to disagree!

 

[Howardh]

Like yourself I'm caring for my father and at the moment my partner isn't so keen on the idea, although she said she'd maybe be a bit more enthusiastic about it in the future. It could still happen one day, but I don't think it'll happen for at least another five or ten years at the earliest, if at all. As for where I'd like to move to in Europe, I have a few ideas but that's all it is at the moment.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother and grandmother too.

Thanks - My biggest worry is I don't know how to spend the £62.10 carer's allowance I get every week. Phew, do I buy a new car or have a VIP day out at Lord's?? Decisions decisions.

 

[furnessvale]

Unless of course there's a fee. Our membership fee was about £1.70 a week. Given that we wouldn't actually be in the EU and thus won't have many of the benefits something like £1 per week per person seems fair. I'd certainly pay a £200/year membership fee for my family to have EU citizenship, I'm sure many of us would.

Does that include conscription into the new EU army when required?

 

[125Forever]

Sorry Howard, but as Marsaxlokk is a Proper Noun...

You could try though!

This is the team in question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsaxlokk_F.C.

 

[ainsworth74]

Does that include conscription into the new EU army when required?

The what now?

 

[Howardh]

Just been having another peep at an overseas sales site and there are still some cracking studio apartments with shared pool for sale for between £120k - £180k in Ibiza, some in the inland villages - perfect *dreams*.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry Howard, but as Marsaxlokk is a Proper Noun...

You could try though!

This is the team in question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsaxlokk_F.C.

Fail! Clicked and "page doesn't exist" !! Maybe Wikipedia can't spell it too
Baldacchino's Barmy Army...

 

[EM2]

^^^
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsaxlokk_F.C.

Brian Talbot was their manager for a while.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Correct. Just more mind games by the EU in the run up to negotiations.

Blaming the EU as a whole for an isolated proposal by a small group of people? That's really taking conspiracy theories to a new level

 

[RichmondCommu]

^^^
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsaxlokk_F.C.

Brian Talbot was their manager for a while.

That name rings a bell. Who else has he managed?

 

[125Forever]

Brian Talbot was also Rushden & Diamonds manager.

Very sad what happened to them, after Max Griggs pulled the plug on them. Still, at least a new club called AFC Rushden & Diamonds has been formed in their place and now play in the Northern League Division 1 South (Step 4).

 

[AlterEgo]

Does that include conscription into the new EU army when required?

Brexit-grade tinfoilery.

 

[EM2]

Deleted - double post.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That name rings a bell. Who else has he managed?

West Brom for a bit, but most well-known for winning the FA Cup as a player in successive seasons with different clubs - 1978 with Ipswich and 1979 with Arsenal.

 

[125Forever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn_6sU7O43w - still makes me chortle. Paul Watson hits the nail on the head.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Okay, so an open question to Remainers:

If you were offered the opportunity to live on the continent (France/Germany/Italy etc.) once Brexit takes place, would you sell up here and move?

OK I'll bite on this. I'm seriously thinking about it. It's a difficult decision because I've lived almost my entire life in the UK, most of my friends and all my family are here, and moving would be a very stressful and difficult upheaval. And I do rather like the UK.

However, I run my own IT-based business. At the moment it's just me, and Internet based so it doesn't matter too much where I live, But looking ahead there is a possibility that in a few years I may want to take on staff. And realistically, if I get to that point, then being based in and having to employ staff in a relatively isolated post-Brexit UK is probably not going to make a lot of sense for me in business terms. If the UK goes for a hard Brexit, the it may be that I would need to move to Europe in order to base any offices there instead of the UK (although having said that, that the fall in the pound could offset that by making it cheaper to employ staff here.).

The real problem for me right now is the knowledge that if I don't move to Europe before Brexit happens, I might permanently lose the right to do so subsequently. That gives a strong incentive to move soon, just to make sure I don't lose the right to in the future. Although like I say, it's a difficult decision - I would prefer not to have to uproot myself and leave my home if I could avoid it - so it could go either way. And of course there's the uncertainty of not knowing how things are going to pan out politically (although the noises the Government are making about a hard Brexit don't sound encouraging)

Ironically, if this proposal for some kind of associate EU citizenship did come to pass, that would probably make it easier for me to remain in the UK - at least in the short term - because it would mean I could do so without sacrificing my right to move away if I later find I need to.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Are you really denying that £350m a week savings was not at all a large part of the leave campaign? Really?
Sure I doubt anyone voted to leave JUST because of that, but it certainly would have played a part in the whole narrative.
An awful lot of the discussion was about "our money being sent to Brussels".

Some people probably did vote on the basis of that 'saving'. The question is how many?

I voted out but not because of that kind of statement.
Nor did I vote out because I support Farage or Johnson. In fact it is embarrassing to be in the same camp as either of them.

If the £350m figure is complete rubbish, then what is the real figure. What were the remain camp so scared of to prevent them releasing the real figures. How much do we send to Europe each year (or are invoiced for, or is represented in the national accounts) and how much do we receive back each year (grants, rebate, agricultural subsidies etc)? Come on remainers, show me your arguments! Convince me that membership of Europe (the institution) gives me value for money. What is our net contribution to Europe, how is it spent, will the accounts ever be signed off as accurate and without massive fraud throughout the southern states?

The argument that the devil will eat my babies if I leave Europe is pointless. I have no babies and don't believe in the devil. Therefore there was no reason not to vote leave - on the basis of the campaign arguments put to me, a mere voter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh dear...

http://uk.businessinsider.com/uks-pro-brexit-fishing-industry-feels-betrayed-by-theresa-may-2016-11

Britain's fishing industry voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU — now it feels 'betrayed' by May's Brexit proposals



Brexit-backing curry industry says it feels ‘betrayed’ by Theresa May’s immigration clampdown

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...y-industry-theresa-may-betrayal-a7398196.html

Off topic, but why do 'curry house' owners find it so difficult to train up people already in the UK? We have home grown, world class, chefs in other food types.

 

[miami]

If the £350m figure is complete rubbish, then what is the real figure. What were the remain camp so scared of to prevent them releasing the real figures. How much do we send to Europe each year (or are invoiced for, or is represented in the national accounts) and how much do we receive back each year (grants, rebate, agricultural subsidies etc)?

Ignoring the trade benefits and just looking at the "membership fee", it's about £120m a week.

Our exports to the EU is somewhere in the region of £3000m a week, so if Brexit and the WTO tarrifs we'll get upon leaving, reduces this by just 5% we'll have lost out.

Our imports are the order of £4000m a week, and the pound's drop since brexit has already increased this by about £800m a week.

£120m a week really is peanuts

What is our net contribution to Europe

About £6b a year

how is it spent

The information you want is on the various eu websites, as for "signed off as accurate"

will the accounts ever be signed off as accurate and without massive fraud throughout the southern states?

Takes about 10 months after year end. I haven't done my tax return for y/e apr 2016 yet either.

http://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocuments/annualreports-2015/annualreports-2015-EN.pdf#page=13

I. In our opinion, the consolidated accounts of the European Union for the year ended 31 December 2015 present fairly,
in all material respects, the financial position of the Union as at 31 December 2015, the results of its operations, its cash
flows, and the changes in net assets for the year then ended, in accordance with the Financial Regulation and with accounting
rules based on internationally accepted accounting standards for the public sector.

 

[Abpj17]

Okay, so an open question to Remainers:

If you were offered the opportunity to live on the continent (France/Germany/Italy etc.) once Brexit takes place, would you sell up here and move?

I mean, if the UK is going to become a tiny and insignificant country now it's no longer in the EU, why bother staying? Surely as a protest (and maybe causing a bank run) you could sell up here, take your money out of the bank and go and live in the EU again.

It's not that it becomes tiny and insignificant...it's if it goes back to, for example, winter of discontent days...

Family ties keep me in the UK for the time being. I've lived and studied in the UK before (France). If I wanted to leave London/change jobs, then the natural areas in my field aren't the rest of the UK but overseas - particularly New York (tho not for the next 4 years...), Switzerland, France, Germany.

I used to be fluent in French, and could get there in German with a bit of immersion.


Edit: Isn't the UK one of the 'accounting' issues? Certainly in years past, it was the audit trail around payments like CAP that didn't help sign-off.

 

[northwichcat]

Okay, so an open question to Remainers:

If you were offered the opportunity to live on the continent (France/Germany/Italy etc.) once Brexit takes place, would you sell up here and move?

I mean, if the UK is going to become a tiny and insignificant country now it's no longer in the EU, why bother staying? Surely as a protest (and maybe causing a bank run) you could sell up here, take your money out of the bank and go and live in the EU again.

As I'm 1/4 Irish and don't fluently speak any other language, the thought of moving to Ireland would be a lot more attractive to me than to 'the continent.'

One problem with taking the money from the bank is the pound has been weaker than the Euro since 2008, so it's a bad time to move to a Euro zone country. It would have been a good time to move when the pound was strong in 2007 and you could get almost 1.5 Euros for a pound but now would probably be the worst time to move since the Euro was introduced.

 

[Abpj17]

If the £350m figure is complete rubbish, then what is the real figure. What were the remain camp so scared of to prevent them releasing the real figures. How much do we send to Europe each year (or are invoiced for, or is represented in the national accounts) and how much do we receive back each year (grants, rebate, agricultural subsidies etc)?

The Treasury published that information before the vote. Did you not search it out yourself (google) and read it to inform your vote?

On the headline figure, the 'rebate' is a misnomer. It's actually an abatement i.e. we aren't invoiced for the gross then have a rebate sent back to us. We are invoiced/pay over the figure once the 'rebate' has already been deducted.

 

[miami]

As I'm 1/4 Irish and don't fluently speak any other language, the thought of moving to Ireland would be a lot more attractive to me than to 'the continent.'

One problem with taking the money from the bank is the pound has been weaker than the Euro since 2008, so it's a bad time to move to a Euro zone country. It would have been a good time to move when the pound was strong in 2007 and you could get almost 1.5 Euros for a pound but now would probably be the worst time to move since the Euro was introduced.

On the other hand house prices are at a record high and must be about to collapse (although the weak pound will help them remain aloft for a while)