EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[muz379]

Why ?
It's got nothing to do with the Leave campaigners.
The government gave the people two choices, and it now appears have done no planning should one of those be chosen.
That is reckless, that is stupid, that is the government's fault, not the voters.
It also speaks volumes of CMD and his not a quitter rhetoric.

Okay fair enough , not the whole leave campaign . But I at the very least would have expected Johnson and Gove to have a bit more to say yesterday than what they actually did . Given their speech was after DC's resignation and Knowing full well that they would be part of the government that is most likely going to negotiate our exit from the EU I would have expected them by now to have at least hinted at what they wanted . They certainly had a lot to say prior to the vote .

But then I guess you are content with politicians who have just spent months trying to convince you to vote for something having no idea how they are going to convert your vote into reality . More fool you .

 

[DelayRepay]

I think it's clear that since they found out that leaving the EU is a very bad idea, leave voters are changing their minds. We should actually be kind to them while this happens. No-one likes to be proven so disastrously and catastrophically wrong. We are going to need their support (*) to achieve EEA membership,

As someone who voted Remain, I will be very unhappy with EEA membership. Having to follow the rules with no say on what those rules are is far worse than being a full member. No, we voted to leave and I am now looking to those political greats, Johnson, Duncan-Smith, Gove and Farrage to deliver on their promises.

 

[EM2]

Why ?
It's got nothing to do with the Leave campaigners.

Of course it has. Not all of them, but those that led the campaign like Johnson, Gove, Hoey and so on.
They have no idea what's going to happen now.
I don't blame Cameron for resigning, and I don't blame him for not triggering Article 50. He's basically said to the Vote Leave leaders 'There you go, you've got what you wanted. Now you can sort it out'.

 

[jon0844]

Could be a long way as they each try and avoid having to get involved.

 

[Muttley]

So you all think that negotiations should be done via speeches and the media, as opposed to behind closed doors ?
You don't accept the outcome of the referendum now, but you still want full public input on the negotiations.
You're a funny lot.

 

[Howardh]

I'm surprised everyone is saying there is no rush when the benefits of leaving are clear for all to see.

Those benefits seem to be disappearing away like the last train when you're stood on the platform. Otherwise Boris Gove would be on the social platforms telling us to "calm down, everything's under control and this is our plan".

All I've heard is a deep intake of breath apart from that woman with the red hair (an MP??) who still insists Utopia started last night.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So you all think that negotiations should be done via speeches and the media, as opposed to behind closed doors ?
You don't accept the outcome of the referendum now, but you still want full public input on the negotiations.
You're a funny lot.

Just hope the negotiations to keep us in are going on, right now, behind closed doors. Closed and locked.

 

[DelayRepay]

So you all think that negotiations should be done via speeches and the media, as opposed to behind closed doors ?
You don't accept the outcome of the referendum now, but you still want full public input on the negotiations.
You're a funny lot.

I accept the outcome of the referendum. I accept that, despite me voting to remain, this country will leave the EU.

I also accept that there are a range of entirely predictable consequences - we will be worse off, we will see higher unemployment, less investment, lower pensions and probably the end of our United Kingdom.

What I want to know is that it's going to be ok. So far, the only person who has said that since yesterday morning is the Governor of the Bank of England, but I remember I shouldn't listen to him.

So why won't Johnsone or Gove, having got us into what appears to be a huge mess, tell us how they plan to get us out of it again?

 

[Harbornite]

BTW, if you're not prepared to share any opinions, there's not much point posting on this forum. Maybe you can leave the space for people who do have interesting things to write.

Agreed.

 

[muz379]

So you all think that negotiations should be done via speeches and the media, as opposed to behind closed doors ?
You don't accept the outcome of the referendum now, but you still want full public input on the negotiations.
You're a funny lot.

I specifically stated that I accept the referendum result so no point levelling that charge at me .

I do not expect negotiations to be done in public . Although in an age when parliamentary debates are often telivised there is no technical reason why this could not happen .

Daniel Hannon managed to state what he thinks our relationship with the EU should be post exit via the media . Why can nobody else from the leave side manage this

What I do expect at the very least is for those that will be doing the negotiating to state publicly in speeches what it is they plan on negotiating for . Or should our politicians just stop stating their intentions before during and after elections and we all just use our crystal ball to decide how to vote .

 

[anme]

So you all think that negotiations should be done via speeches and the media, as opposed to behind closed doors ?
You don't accept the outcome of the referendum now, but you still want full public input on the negotiations.
You're a funny lot.

I realise that this is a satirical portrayal of a leave supporter, probably written by a Guardian reader in Islington, but I'm going to bite anyway.

Who exactly doesn't accept the result the referendum? I think the result is amongst the stupidest things I've ever seen and I'm very unhappy about and I intend to make that feeling known. But it is the result and the British people have to take responsibility for that and live with the consequences. Maybe they will learn something.

And yes, I expect there to be public input on the negotiations. Do you not expect this? Do you understand that there are many very different paths we can now take? We MUST have a public debate about this. And I'm actually fairly confident that we will, however much you dislike that fact.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As someone who voted Remain, I will be very unhappy with EEA membership. Having to follow the rules with no say on what those rules are is far worse than being a full member. No, we voted to leave and I am now looking to those political greats, Johnson, Duncan-Smith, Gove and Farrage to deliver on their promises.

Thanks! Good to finally get some input. I completely agree with you, but I also think that EEA membership, however unfavourable, is far better than the alternative which is total separation. So however unhappy I am about it, I'm supporting EEA membership.

Strange that only a remain supporter has responded since the referendum. Surely the leave camp have nothing to say? If you don't, I will assume you've changed your minds and decided we should have remained after all.

 

[Antman]

What do YOU think should happen now? EEA membership? Close all the borders and pretend it's 1875? Ask Putin to take over? Please tell us!

You MUST have thought about it, because voting leave without thinking about it would be totally moronic, right?

What a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[anme]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

This time with fewer capital letters and removing the implied insult at the end:

What do you think should happen now? EEA membership? Close all the borders and pretend it's 1875? Ask Putin to take over?

Now will you tell us?

 

[Dave1987]

I accept the outcome of the referendum. I accept that, despite me voting to remain, this country will leave the EU.

I also accept that there are a range of entirely predictable consequences - we will be worse off, we will see higher unemployment, less investment, lower pensions and probably the end of our United Kingdom.

What I want to know is that it's going to be ok. So far, the only person who has said that since yesterday morning is the Governor of the Bank of England, but I remember I shouldn't listen to him.

So why won't Johnsone or Gove, having got us into what appears to be a huge mess, tell us how they plan to get us out of it again?

The way the both Johnson and Gove have been very quiet since the result was announced and Cameron said he would stand down worries me! The way the Vote Leave camp are now saying that there is no rush to trigger Article 50 worries me even more! In the analysis of the Beeb news website it states there are hundreds of bits of legislation to unpick and rewrite that the EU did for us. We don't have enough civil servants with sufficient trade deal negotiating experience to cope with the massive task of undoing our relationship with the EU. All in all it could take upwards of 10 years to sort this divorce out and "take back control" with all the various legislation that needs to be rewritten and passed. Add to all that the various trade deals that will need to be negotiated. This referendum is a complete shambles.

 

[Antman]

I specifically stated that I accept the referendum result so no point levelling that charge at me .

I do not expect negotiations to be done in public . Although in an age when parliamentary debates are often telivised there is no technical reason why this could not happen .

Daniel Hannon managed to state what he thinks our relationship with the EU should be post exit via the media . Why can nobody else from the leave side manage this

What I do expect at the very least is for those that will be doing the negotiating to state publicly in speeches what it is they plan on negotiating for . Or should our politicians just stop stating their intentions before during and after elections and we all just use our crystal ball to decide how to vote .

Credit to you for at least accepting the referendum result with good grace, this is in stark contrast to those who are now trying to move the goalposts!

 

[Harbornite]

Credit to you for at least accepting the referendum result with good grace, this is in stark contrast to those who are now trying to move the goalposts!

Why should we accept it without any queries whatsoever?

 

[Antman]

This time with fewer capital letters and removing the implied insult at the end:

What do you think should happen now? EEA membership? Close all the borders and pretend it's 1875? Ask Putin to take over?

Now will you tell us?

You are asking ridiculous questions that you know cannot be answered on here and frankly it's getting rather tiresome.

 

[anme]

Credit to you for at least accepting the referendum result with good grace, this is in stark contrast to those who are now trying to move the goalposts!

Who are these people?

BTW, still waiting for you to tell us what you think should happen next? Do you agree with me that we should do absolutely anything asked of us to secure EEA membership?

 

[Harbornite]

You are asking ridiculous questions that you know cannot be answered on here and frankly it's getting rather tiresome.

They can be answered on here actually, and you are the one who is growing tiresome.

 

[anme]

You are asking ridiculous questions that you know cannot be answered on here and frankly it's getting rather tiresome.

I am asking you what you think should happen next! How is that a ridiculous question?!

I will tell you again what I think should happen next. EEA membership at any cost - it is utterly essential that we preserve full freedom of trade and freedom of movement of people. Do you agree? Yes or no would be a good start.

 

[NoMorePacers]

They can be answered on here actually, and you are the one who is growing tiresome.

Agreed. If you have nothing productive to say, you shouldn't really be posting on this thread, or indeed on these forums and save the space for people who are actually going to contribute meaningful posts to this thread and the forums in general.

 

[Howardh]

Meanwhile...it appears that the Scottish Parliament has to accept the referendum on behalf of the UK, never saw that in the small print, but maybe, just maybe, in the small print of devolution there's something there that the UK can't make a decision that adversely affects Scotland without Holyrood approval.

Arise, Queen Nicola, Arise!!

 

[Johnuk123]

Meanwhile...it appears that the Scottish Parliament has to accept the referendum on behalf of the UK, never saw that in the small print, but maybe, just maybe, in the small print of devolution there's something there that the UK can't make a decision that adversely affects Scotland without Holyrood approval.

Arise, Queen Nicola, Arise!!

Where have you read that ?

Cancel that I've just seen it.

 

[anme]

Where have you read that ?

It is correct that the Scotland has to agree to constitutional changes. For example, Scotland could have remained part of the European Court of Human Rights had England and Wales chosen to withdraw, as promised in the Conservative Party manifesto. (BTW, that's not going to happen. Thankfully there are enough good Tories that the government will never get it through parliament.)

I don't know whether it's true in this case - would be interested to see a reference.

 

[DelayRepay]

Meanwhile...it appears that the Scottish Parliament has to accept the referendum on behalf of the UK, never saw that in the small print, but maybe, just maybe, in the small print of devolution there's something there that the UK can't make a decision that adversely affects Scotland without Holyrood approval.

It is clear from the results that the majority in Scotland do not wish to leave the EU. The Scottish Government has an obvious responsibility to protect the interests of Scotland.

I think what they have said is they will attempt to protect Scotland's interests - nothing wrong with that. They have also said they may hold an independence referendum. Surely a Leave supporter cannot object to a country holding a democratic referendum to decide how they should be governed? That would be the deepest of ironies.

 

[Howardh]

It is correct that the Scotland has to agree to constitutional changes. For example, Scotland could have remained part of the European Court of Human Rights had England and Wales chosen to withdraw, as promised in the Conservative Party manifesto. (BTW, that's not going to happen. Thankfully there are enough good Tories that the government will never get it through parliament.)

I don't know whether it's true in this case - would be interested to see a reference.

It's a hell of a constitutional change, and there will be lawyers burning the midnight oil (Scotland's oil??) and this could well end up in, er, E****e.

 

[anme]

This is an interesting article: https://www.facebook.com/tom.short.351/posts/10155134392909152 (can be read without logging into Facebook, claims to be from the Guardian but I can't find any reference to it on their website)

Any views? Indeed the next prime minister is being given the ultimate poisoned chalice - recession, the break up of the United Kingdom, a choice between EEA membership and total isolation which will lead to economic disaster or charges of treachery, lost opportunities for the younger generation, travel restrictions, anger at the lies told by the leave campaign, trouble in Northern Ireland, etc. And no chance to do anything else - the full machinery of government will be taken up with disentanglement from the EU. And likely annihilation at the next general election - it might be the public's fault that we're in this terrible position, but they will still punish the politicians in charge.

Will the next Tory leader REALLY be brave enough to trigger article 50?

Please note - I accept the result of the referendum however moronic it is, but it's interesting to think how this will pan out.

 

[EM2]

Will the next Tory leader REALLY be brave enough to trigger article 50?

Well, assuming that the next Tory leader is one from the Vote Leave camp, as seems likely, they may find themselves very, very unpopular if they don't.
If they decide to hold a second referendum, and Remain wins, they will still find themselves very, very unpopular.
A rock and a hard place

 

[Howardh]

BREAKING NEWS

Johnson, Gove and Farage have declined an invitation to appear on BBC's "A Question Of Sport" in order to avoid the "What Happens Next?" round.

 

[ExRes]

I'm not sure you need to have a goal to feel angry that you've been lied to.

And no - there has been one campaign in particular that has been more misleading: the Leave campaign. Farage and Hannan are both complicit in not speaking out about the lies about the NHS and reducing immigration, both of which were the two primary reasons people voted Brexit.

And an election would not be overturning a democratically held result, because it itself would be a democratic result! Unless you mean that proportional systems are better than FPTP, in which case why have you previously argued that FPTP is good and democratic?

I apologise if I didn't make myself clear as I was short of time when posting

My point was that I believe some people are calling for an election assuming that the winners could then overturn the result of a democratically held referendum

As for your final point, I'm happy with the present system of electing a government although, as I've been accused of being a loony UKIP racist on here before, perhaps we should change to a system that would make some on this forum happier, bearing in mind of course, that system could have led to our parliament having 81 sitting UKIP MPs

 

[Howardh]

Please note - I accept the result of the referendum however moronic it is, but it's interesting to think how this will pan out.

Hollywood's the winner. Note Wood, not Rood!

This will make a great film in 20 years time...How The Union Was Lost.

When he's finished, Trump can play Boris.