EU rules to travel

[RT4038]

There are plenty of people without bank accounts. You can pay for your travel with cash. I do it all the time. All of the ferry ports take cash. Eurostar take cash at their stations. Most hotels take cash. Although it is less common there are still many people without bank accounts and if they are going to be introducing this ETIAS visa they really need to have a facility to pay cash. Although i suspect it will mean having to go to the embassy and get a full visa to pay cash.

Why would the EU want to incur any cost to cater for non-EU citizens wishing to visit the EU to pay by cash? It is so niche as to be not worth considering. Those people can stay in their own country - no-one has any right to go to another country.

I am not sure it does. It takes one second to stamp a passport. It maybe adds one second extra. They have to look at your passport and look at your photo page anyway and verify that you are that person and that surely takes up more time than stamping it.

Anyway is this new ETIAS visa thing actually getting rid of stamping? Even with the ETIAS visa you are still only allowed 90 days within 180 days so surely they will still have to stamp it every time you enter and every time you exit?

The Electronic visa scheme allows (a) a check against a database of undesirables, and (b) automatic checking to comply within the 90 days in 180 rules.
No need fore stamping, the database will know and check.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not mentioned so far is the Entry Exit System (EES) which is supposed to do away with EU passport stamps, by scanning passports instead.
However, they seem likely to want biometric information too (photo and fingerprints, as for the USA), which might delay the process at borders.
It isn't clear if that is a one-off requirement or needed at each entry.
There's a lot of detail still to be made known about both EES and ETIAS, but they have reached the stage of piloting the systems in some situations.
The ETIAS fee (€7 for 3 years) is waived for young (under 18) and old (over 70).

 

[dutchflyer]

But is not that (from the view of a happy EUropean mostly using his easy IDcard, as I am doing right now) becse a tiny majority of those who then went to the ballots/polls in GB voted to get out of this burocratic nightmare the EU was assumed to be? Not wanting at all to revoke all that plus I am noit British at all.
Compare also: even countries like Turkey, Macedonia still accept EU-citizens with just an ID-but UK was fast to withdraw this after they finally left.
I also remember the 1st time I went to the USA I got a totally free visum, valid 5 or 10 yrs with just waiting a few hrs in a very long Q at their embassy. Now if I would return to go there I would also have to do all the online pre-entry clearings etc.

 

[AdamWW]

It's quite amusing how different countries behave with the stamping. Latvia, Poland, Germany, etc will ask all of the questions and neatly stamp in the right place.

France, Spain, Netherlands just blindly stamp wherever without a word. I had to collar an immigration officer at St Pancras a couple of weeks ago as he'd done such a bad job stamping that you couldn't see any date on it.

Funny how different people's experience varies, isn't it?

My (limited) experience of post Brexit travel is of both Spain and the Netherlands putting all the stamps together, with the entrance and exit stamps nicely lined up with each other. (In an idea world some of them wouldn't be upside down though).

I've never seen any of them count the days on the stamps. Only twice have I even been asked any questions, contrary to all the stories about people being given the third degree about where they're going, how long for, for what reason, can you prove you have enough funds etc. None of that. I've been asked twice how long I'm staying for, and in one of those instances I was asked for the purpose of my visit as well. I just said "holiday" and they were happy with that.

On the way out they've cared even less. Just stamp it and off you go.

My experience is of being questioned more often than not both on entrance and exit, with the questioning on entry being quite detailed - why I was visiting, how long for, where I'd be staying, when I'd leave the EU and how I'd be travelling back.

On the other hand nobody has asked to see evidence of any of the above, or my vaccine certificate even though in principle it was still required.

 

[RT4038]

But is not that (from the view of a happy EUropean mostly using his easy IDcard, as I am doing right now) becse a tiny majority of those who then went to the ballots/polls in GB voted to get out of this burocratic nightmare the EU was assumed to be? Not wanting at all to revoke all that plus I am noit British at all.
Compare also: even countries like Turkey, Macedonia still accept EU-citizens with just an ID-but UK was fast to withdraw this after they finally left.

Sure, the UK could have accepted EU ID cards, but why? What reciprocal concession would the EU have granted UK citizens?

 

[AdamWW]

Sure, the UK could have accepted EU ID cards, but why? What reciprocal concession would the EU have granted UK citizens?

I'm sure the EU could have very happily agreed to accept anyone presenting a UK national ID card in lieu of a passport.

 

[RT4038]

I'm sure the EU could have very happily agreed to accept anyone presenting a UK national ID card in lieu of a passport.

I'm not so sure they would have - how would they enforce the 90/180 day rules without stamps in passports [at present] ?

 

[AlterEgo]

So far as I know the US scheme (ESTA) is no longer instant. And I'm sure most if not all of them will have systems which trigger a manual review in some cases.

It is not instant but it is very quick. The less information you give the quicker it takes, I think.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Not sure where expecting the world to stop comes into it. If you're in the 1% that needs to do something differently, being told that the other 99% are OK isn't much help. (It would save a lot of money if we stopped making wheelchair provision on public transport - should we do that because only a tiny fraction of the population benefit?)

Using a wheelchair is not a choice. Refusing to have a bank account is, or to use it to make payments is - there are regulations which force the banks to offer an account with a debit card to anyone.

 

[AlterEgo]

I also remember the 1st time I went to the USA I got a totally free visum, valid 5 or 10 yrs with just waiting a few hrs in a very long Q at their embassy. Now if I would return to go there I would also have to do all the online pre-entry clearings etc.

Not also, but instead of, the big long queue. You can apply for an ESTA in your bed at home and t's valid for two years. it is a very simply process and vastly preferable to wasting your time queueing at an embassy.

Not sure where expecting the world to stop comes into it. If you're in the 1% that needs to do something differently, being told that the other 99% are OK isn't much help. (It would save a lot of money if we stopped making wheelchair provision on public transport - should we do that because only a tiny fraction of the population benefit?)

Being in a wheelchair is almost always the result of a disability, not a lifestyle choice or any kind of free choice about how one organises one's life, so I don't know why you have brought that up.

I personally choose not to use Global Entry and not give all my details to the United States, and instead use ESTA for my multiple visits. That is a personal, and lifestyle choice. Being disabled isn't.

 

[AdamWW]

I'm not so sure they would have - how would they enforce the 90/180 day rules without stamps in passports [at present] ?

Well my point was that as we don't have national ID cards they could happily have offered to accept them without anything changing.

The fact that a non-existant ID card is unstampable isn't really an issue.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Sure, the UK could have accepted EU ID cards, but why? What reciprocal concession would the EU have granted UK citizens?

Not everything is about winning a tit-for-tat game against the EU comm.

Many EU citizens do not have a passport, since they can visit 26 countries without one, so requiring one discourages tourism.

In particular, it used to be common for German school classes to visit the UK, but no longer, since it would require the many of the parents to shell out not just for the trip, but for passport too.

 

[CBlue]

Funny how different people's experience varies, isn't it?

My (limited) experience of post Brexit travel is of both Spain and the Netherlands putting all the stamps together, with the entrance and exit stamps nicely lined up with each other. (In an idea world some of them wouldn't be upside down though).



My experience is of being questioned more often than not both on entrance and exit, with the questioning on entry being quite detailed - why I was visiting, how long for, where I'd be staying, when I'd leave the EU and how I'd be travelling back.

On the other hand nobody has asked to see evidence of any of the above, or my vaccine certificate even though in principle it was still required.

Regularly visit Germany from the UK to spend time with my partner. At least twice I've been asked to show proof of how long I'm staying for in the form of tickets for my return flight.

I am not sure it does. It takes one second to stamp a passport. It maybe adds one second extra. They have to look at your passport and look at your photo page anyway and verify that you are that person and that surely takes up more time than stamping it.

The checks the passport officers have to do if you're entering the EU are not quick, it's far more than just stamping the passport. Takes at least five minutes per person once all the questions about length of stay have been answered, existing passport stamps are checked and calculated alongside the usual scanning process.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In particular, it used to be common for German school classes to visit the UK, but no longer, since it would require the many of the parents to shell out not just for the trip, but for passport too.

There used to be a large school tourist market from France, particularly to Kent (Canterbury etc).
But no longer, as their ID cards are not accepted by the UK.

It's the same for things like short English language courses which were very popular and part of the earnings of the education sector.

 

[Chester1]

But most of these "travel authorisation" or "visa waiver" visa things are instant from what i hear. So it seems to be mainly automatic. So i am not sure there is actually anyone reviewing your information and checking on whether they would like to let you in or not. I reckon it is just a way for these countries to make more money.

My understanding is that these travel authorisation schemes serve two purposes for the destination country.

1. They give the government of a destination country the opertinuity to look the traveller up in various databases. While some people do get their authorisations near-instantly others can take significantly longer. Presumbablly because there was a database hit or because the person answered one of the eligability questions in a way that may indicate ineligibility.
2. They put certain categories of undesirable person in zugzwang. If the undesirable person tells the truth then the authorisation is likely to get denied. If the undesirable person lies and gets caught lying that is potentially grounds for harsher treatment than the original undesirable behaviour would in itself of merited.

Specifically such countries fall into two categories.

The first category is countries that have negotiated opt-outs from Schengen, currently this is only the Republic of Ireland. Prior to Brexit the UK was also in this category. Brits can travel and work freely in the republic of Ireland and citizens of the Republic of Ireland can travel and work freely in the UK under agreements that predate the UK and ROI joining the EU.

The second is countries that are technically bound by treaty to join the Schengen area but for various reasons have not joined it yet. This includes, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria and the Republic of Cyprus. While not yet members of the Schengen area the border policies of these countries are closely aligned to Schengen, they accept multiple entry Schengen visas and they will apprently require ETIAS when it rolls out.


Perhaps.

But I would still expect few countries to see people too poor to have a bank account as desirable visitors.


Indeed, if the UK was still in the EU they would (with very narrow exceptions) be bound to let us in, whether they want us or not. In the same way we were bound to let them in whether we wanted them or not.

That is gone now, the EU (other than Ireland) are free to exclude undesirables from the UK and we are free to exclude undesirables from the EU (other than Ireland)

Its not about money its about criminal traffic. Its instant decision in most cases because people are just being run through various databases in an automatic proccess. Their application will only be looked at by a person if something is detected. Visas involve a much wider assessment and are always issued by a person.

When there are physical barriers to travel e.g. being an island country its better to have seperate systems. If the UK blocks an EU citizen (or vice versa) from traveling due to suspected criminal activity or recent convictions then it benefits both. A criminal won't enter the UK and at the same time its harder for the criminal to develop their "business" so their home country benefits too.

Not mentioned so far is the Entry Exit System (EES) which is supposed to do away with EU passport stamps, by scanning passports instead.
However, they seem likely to want biometric information too (photo and fingerprints, as for the USA), which might delay the process at borders.
It isn't clear if that is a one-off requirement or needed at each entry.
There's a lot of detail still to be made known about both EES and ETIAS, but they have reached the stage of piloting the systems in some situations.
The ETIAS fee (€7 for 3 years) is waived for young (under 18) and old (over 70).

Its definitely just first entry. Most of the preparation by Airlines and Eurostar seem to be based on a hectic first few months and then settling down as an increasingly higher proportion of travelers are already on system.

Edit: I think the long term intention is to do partial fingerprint scans at e gates. Passport photos are already compared with photo taken by e gates.

But is not that (from the view of a happy EUropean mostly using his easy IDcard, as I am doing right now) becse a tiny majority of those who then went to the ballots/polls in GB voted to get out of this burocratic nightmare the EU was assumed to be? Not wanting at all to revoke all that plus I am noit British at all.
Compare also: even countries like Turkey, Macedonia still accept EU-citizens with just an ID-but UK was fast to withdraw this after they finally left.
I also remember the 1st time I went to the USA I got a totally free visum, valid 5 or 10 yrs with just waiting a few hrs in a very long Q at their embassy. Now if I would return to go there I would also have to do all the online pre-entry clearings etc.

The EU only enforced biometric national ID cards from 2021 so there will still be valid lower quality national ID cards in circulation until 2031. Until they were banned they accounted for a large majority of forged documents seized at the UK border. Some smaller EU consulates issued paper ID valid for travel. When every national ID card meets the new EU security standard then forged IDs won't be a major issue at border and hopefully a deal will be done. Its different for Turkey because people aren't likely to enter the country using them.

 

[AdamWW]

Not also, but instead of, the big long queue. You can apply for an ESTA in your bed at home and t's valid for two years. it is a very simply process and vastly preferable to wasting your time queueing at an embassy.


Being in a wheelchair is almost always the result of a disability, not a lifestyle choice or any kind of free choice about how one organises one's life, so I don't know why you have brought that up.

I personally choose not to use Global Entry and not give all my details to the United States, and instead use ESTA for my multiple visits. That is a personal, and lifestyle choice. Being disabled isn't.

Apart from anything else, given the money laundering regulation obstacles put in the way of opening and sometimes even maintaining bank accounts, I don't share your confidence that nobody in the UK could ever find themselves without a workable bank account.

The checks the passport officers have to do if you're entering the EU are not quick, it's far more than just stamping the passport. Takes at least five minutes per person once all the questions about length of stay have been answered, existing passport stamps are checked and calculated alongside the usual scanning process.

Either I've been incredible lucky, or this is an overestimate.

Let's see. Eurostar class 374 capacity - Wikipedia says 902 seats.

So that's 75 passport-booth hours to fill one with non-EU citizens at 5 minutes a go. Assuming one train an hour from St Pancras (underestimate?) and (complete guess) 50-50 EU and non-EU citizens we'd need over 30 passport booths at that rate + whatever it takes for the EU citizens to have their passports quickly scanned.

I don't think that's right.

 

[Howardh]

I spent 15 minutes stood at immigration in Gdánsk last month while the officer sat looking at four pages of stamps trying to work out how many days I'd been in the Schengen area.

Not helped by some countries just stamping wherever (including the Czech Republic which stamped the back page for some reason)

That's not happened to me yet but I had been wondering if any guard anywhere has checked the dates. Yes, the stamping is haphazard which doesn't help! I had assumed that the only time the 90/180 rule would surface is if you had been up to no good and police wanted to see your passport and documents.

When there are physical barriers to travel e.g. being an island country its better to have seperate systems. If the UK blocks an EU citizen (or vice versa) from traveling due to suspected criminal activity or recent convictions then it benefits both. A criminal won't enter the UK and at the same time its harder for the criminal to develop their "business" so their home country benefits too.

Which unfortunately won't work. If an EU criminal is determined to enter the UK they can do so unnoticed very easily, just fly to Dublin where they - unless they are a very severe criminal and wanted - have a perfect right to enter the Republic, and as I've alluded to many, many times before, just catch a bus over the border into Northern Ireland (UK) and then by boat or ferry to GB. very little - if any - documentation is needed for that latter route, and as far as I'm aware there are no immigration officials between NI and GB. So in effect, nothing to stop a criminal entering the UK.

 

[AdamWW]

Which unfortunately won't work. If an EU criminal is determined to enter the UK they can do so unnoticed very easily, just fly to Dublin where they - unless they are a very severe criminal and wanted - have a perfect right to enter the Republic, and as I've alluded to many, many times before, just catch a bus over the border into Northern Ireland (UK) and then by boat or ferry to GB. very little - if any - documentation is needed for that latter route, and as far as I'm aware there are no immigration officials between NI and GB. So in effect, nothing to stop a criminal entering the UK.

Rather like when Paddington introduced ticket barriers at the end of the platforms, but for many years with nothing on the overbridge further down.

 

[johncrossley]

Which unfortunately won't work. If an EU criminal is determined to enter the UK they can do so unnoticed very easily, just fly to Dublin where they - unless they are a very severe criminal and wanted - have a perfect right to enter the Republic, and as I've alluded to many, many times before, just catch a bus over the border into Northern Ireland (UK) and then by boat or ferry to GB. very little - if any - documentation is needed for that latter route, and as far as I'm aware there are no immigration officials between NI and GB. So in effect, nothing to stop a criminal entering the UK.

And someone with an ID card can get into the UK that way as well. Depending on the airline, you can fly between Northern Ireland and the GB mainland with acceptable forms of photo identification (such as an EU ID card). British Airways don't even require that. They just 'advise' that you carry photographic identification.

 

[AlterEgo]

Apart from anything else, given the money laundering regulation obstacles put in the way of opening and sometimes even maintaining bank accounts, I don't share your confidence that nobody in the UK could ever find themselves without a workable bank account.

That’s still not the same as being disabled.

 

[Howardh]

And someone with an ID card can get into the UK that way as well. Depending on the airline, you can fly between Northern Ireland and the GB mainland with acceptable forms of photo identification (such as an EU ID card). British Airways don't even require that. They just 'advise' that you carry photographic identification.

Yes, in future we will be implementing our system where EU's will require a full passport (meaning many who might spend their money here won't come at all) and electronic waiver. Apart from those with a simple ID card bypassing all that by entering via Ireland!!

As I have posted before, on many a domestic flight or ferry including Belfast and the Channel Islands from GB, I haven't been asked to show any ID whatsover, just my ticket. Didn't even check if the name on the ticket was mine!

 

[AdamWW]

That’s still not the same as being disabled.

No, not at all.

But in my view it's relevant to the sentiment that people in a "niche" circumstance shouldn't expect any allowances to be made for them.

Your view may differ.

Yes, in future we will be implementing our system where EU's will require a full passport (meaning many who might spend their money here won't come at all) and electronic waiver. Apart from those with a simple ID card bypassing all that by entering via Ireland!!

You couldn't make it up....

As I understand it you don't need a passport to get from GB to the Republic of Ireland.
Or from the GB to the Isle of Man.

But flying from the IoM to Dublin did require going through passport control.

So sort of the reverse.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As I understand it you don't need a passport to get from GB to the Republic of Ireland.

Depends on the carrier.
Ryanair insists on a passport as ID to board.

 

[Sm5]

It does seem a shame though that travel through Europe is getting much harder, at least for those of us in the UK. Go back a few decades and you could just get a (cheap) British Visitor's Passport from a post office on the spot which would get you as far as Greece (not even in the EU at the time). Now it's a large amount of money and possibly a few weeks, possibly much more, for a passport you need even just to go to France.

thats democracy at work, the will of the people.


My understanding of ESTAs is to screen you ahead of arrival. Its no longer about convincing the guy at immigration your a true, honest person, travelling with true honest documentarian with true honest intent…

instead its a computerised check against interpol crime databases, national databases of the territory you are seeking to enter, coupled with checks on your national records that have been agreed to be shared.

in other words, wandering through with your twin brothers passport, committing a crime and absconding, out staying your visit or performing activities beyond the status of your approval will all start being weeded out, even if your good at convincing the man with a stamp that your a good fella.

it has the added consequence of catching out spies, and criminals by scanning your finger print it becomes harder to use the same print attached to three different names / nationalities… or absconding a crime scene.

its a lights out methodology.. if everyone rocking up has preauthorisation and computer says “Yes“ then as long as they match your details to your documents and your approval your on your way… anyone who doesn't glows in the dark.

The painful part will be initial registration and collecting all those fingerprints… Waiting until off season makes a lot of sense, imagine the chaos in Malaga, Rome, Tenerife etc when 200mn tourists descend on the EU from around the world in peak vacation season, and each one has to give 8 fingers and 2 thumbs at the immigration desk for the first time and wait whilst each one is successfully saved in some Brussels database.

When this starts in Dover it wont just be the M2 thats a parking lot, the M25 will be as well. Thats why Eurostar has thrown in the towel on any non-core operations for the next few years, until our British herd has got immunity to it and the EU Database reaches a peak point of the UK population, meaning its just a repeat approval rather an initial registration.

 

[Howardh]

thats democracy at work, the will of the people.


My understanding of ESTAs is to screen you ahead of arrival. Its no longer about convincing the guy at immigration your a true, honest person, travelling with true honest documentarian with true honest intent…

instead its a computerised check against interpol crime databases, national databases of the territory you are seeking to enter, coupled with checks on your national records that have been agreed to be shared.

in other words, wandering through with your twin brothers passport, committing a crime and absconding, out staying your visit or performing activities beyond the status of your approval will all start being weeded out, even if your good at convincing the man with a stamp that your a good fella.

it has the added consequence of catching out spies, and criminals by scanning your finger print it becomes harder to use the same print attached to three different names / nationalities… or absconding a crime scene.

its a lights out methodology.. if everyone rocking up has preauthorisation and computer says “Yes“ then as long as they match your details to your documents and your approval your on your way… anyone who doesn't glows in the dark.

The painful part will be initial registration and collecting all those fingerprints… Waiting until off season makes a lot of sense, imagine the chaos in Malaga, Rome, Tenerife etc when 200mn tourists descend on the EU from around the world in peak vacation season, and each one has to give 8 fingers and 2 thumbs at the immigration desk for the first time and wait whilst each one is successfully saved in some Brussels database.

When this starts in Dover it wont just be the M2 thats a parking lot, the M25 will be as well. Thats why Eurostar has thrown in the towel on any non-core operations for the next few years, until our British herd has got immunity to it and the EU Database reaches a peak point of the UK population, meaning its just a repeat approval rather an initial registration.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the nations of Europe including the British Isles could group together, have a common travel area where all this bureaucracy isn't necessary and the checks can be made on those entering Europe? Pity no-one's thought of that, a union of Europe would be the best way forward I reckon.

 

[Chester1]

That's not happened to me yet but I had been wondering if any guard anywhere has checked the dates. Yes, the stamping is haphazard which doesn't help! I had assumed that the only time the 90/180 rule would surface is if you had been up to no good and police wanted to see your passport and documents.


Which unfortunately won't work. If an EU criminal is determined to enter the UK they can do so unnoticed very easily, just fly to Dublin where they - unless they are a very severe criminal and wanted - have a perfect right to enter the Republic, and as I've alluded to many, many times before, just catch a bus over the border into Northern Ireland (UK) and then by boat or ferry to GB. very little - if any - documentation is needed for that latter route, and as far as I'm aware there are no immigration officials between NI and GB. So in effect, nothing to stop a criminal entering the UK.

And someone with an ID card can get into the UK that way as well. Depending on the airline, you can fly between Northern Ireland and the GB mainland with acceptable forms of photo identification (such as an EU ID card). British Airways don't even require that. They just 'advise' that you carry photographic identification.

Yes, in future we will be implementing our system where EU's will require a full passport (meaning many who might spend their money here won't come at all) and electronic waiver. Apart from those with a simple ID card bypassing all that by entering via Ireland!!

As I have posted before, on many a domestic flight or ferry including Belfast and the Channel Islands from GB, I haven't been asked to show any ID whatsover, just my ticket. Didn't even check if the name on the ticket was mine!

No, not at all.

But in my view it's relevant to the sentiment that people in a "niche" circumstance shouldn't expect any allowances to be made for them.

Your view may differ.



As I understand it you don't need a passport to get from GB to the Republic of Ireland.
Or from the GB to the Isle of Man.

But flying from the IoM to Dublin did require going through passport control.

So sort of the reverse.

Ireland being a back door to the UK is over done. For instance earlier this year plenty of people said UK having a seperate Ukrainian refugee policy to Ireland (and therefore EU) was pointless because Ukrainians wanting to come to UK would just travel via Ireland. In reality the numbers doing it have been tiny and the media reports indicate its mostly people who have struggled to get accomadation in Ireland, who then stay in Northern Ireland.

Ireland and UK block entry to people they believe are actually intending to travel without permission to the other country. Ireland currently blocks entry into Ireland about 500 people a year. The UK will share ETA data with Ireland and if Ireland develops its own system it will share data with the UK. Even EU citizens are not guaranteed entry into Ireland. If an EU citizen has an ETA application rejected then they will receive a great deal of scrutiny when trying to enter Ireland.

If too many people slip through then either government could make ID compulsory for flights and ferries and always check the name against ticket.

I really don't understand why the UK and EU (excluding Ireland) having seperate border controls is so objectionable to many. We are physically seperate from Schengen countries and the extra hassle is minimal when people are already boarding an advanced ticket only train, plane or ferry. It provides an extra layer of control for UK + Ireland and Schengen to hinder criminal activity and unauthorised migration. Why throw away the security benefits of being (mostly) two islands off the north west coast of Europe? If or when Ireland absorbs Northern Ireland I doubt they will be too keen on joining Schengen, they would be more likely to either keep the Common Travel Area or just have their own passport territory.

 

[Howardh]

Ireland being a back door to the UK is over done. For instance earlier this year plenty of people said UK having a seperate Ukrainian refugee policy to Ireland (and therefore EU) was pointless because Ukrainians wanting to come to UK would just travel via Ireland. In reality the numbers doing it have been tiny and the media reports indicate its mostly people who have struggled to get accomadation in Ireland, who then stay in Northern Ireland.

Ireland and UK block entry to people they believe are actually intending to travel without permission to the other country. Ireland currently blocks entry into Ireland about 500 people a year. The UK will share ETA data with Ireland and if Ireland develops its own system it will share data with the UK. Even EU citizens are not guaranteed entry into Ireland. If an EU citizen has an ETA application rejected then they will receive a great deal of scrutiny when trying to enter Ireland.

If too many people slip through then either government could make ID compulsory for flights and ferries and always check the name against ticket.

I really don't understand why the UK and EU (excluding Ireland) having seperate border controls is so objectionable to many. We are physically seperate from Schengen countries and the extra hassle is minimal when people are already boarding an advanced ticket only train, plane or ferry. It provides an extra layer of control for UK + Ireland and Schengen to hinder criminal activity and unauthorised migration. Why throw away the security benefits of being (mostly) two islands off the north west coast of Europe? If or when Ireland absorbs Northern Ireland I doubt they will be too keen on joining Schengen, they would be more likely to either keep the Common Travel Area or just have their own passport territory.

How many EU people that the UK would block have entered the UK from the Republic?

Answer; we don't know as we don't check. Could be zero, could be thousands.

 

[AdamWW]

thats democracy at work, the will of the people.

If you're referring to Brexit, then the British Visitor passport was taken away long before that.

Depends on the carrier.
Ryanair insists on a passport as ID to board.

OK let me rephrase that.

As I understand it a passport is not required to enter the Republic of Ireland from GB, although individual transport operators may insist on passengers carrying ID and only accept passports as that ID.

 

[Chester1]

How many EU people that the UK would block have entered the UK from the Republic?

Answer; we don't know as we don't check. Could be zero, could be thousands.

There will be internal risk assessments of this. The number who enter Northern Ireland but not GB is impossible to assess. Passenger lists will be shared with both sets of authorities. Both governments state that additional checks are "intelligence lead". The CTA is a weaker point but its layered unlike direct entry. There will be policing methods that indicate how an an arrested person illegally entered the UK, that can then be used to provide estimates of numbers travelling that aren't caught.

If the CTA was a massive weakness we would impose passport controls with republic of Ireland to reduce the weaker point to just NI-GB flights and ferries. The lack of interest in this suggests that both governments think they have decent control on republic of Ireland to (or from) GB travel.

This isn't just a UK/GB issue. The Irish government has just removed Russian and Belarusian citizens from a scheme that waives visa requirement for people of specific nationalities and who have a UK visa and enter Ireland via UK. They will need to apply to Irish government for visas. The Irish government must have a reasonable degree of confidence in UK Border Force blocking entry to Russians and Belarussians they suspect are trying to get to Ireland without permission and on the quality of the monitoring of GB to Republic of Ireland travel.

 

[RT4038]

Well my point was that as we don't have national ID cards they could happily have offered to accept them without anything changing.

Such an offer would be meaningless, so wasn't an option.

The fact that a non-existant ID card is unstampable isn't really an issue.

EU citizens have unstampable ID cards, which are no longer accepted for entry into the UK. Presumably being unstampable (and therefore period of stay rules uncheckable) is the main reason for this [other than the the EU not agreeing to not stamp UK identity documents [aka passports] going into the EU, so a quid pro quo].

Not everything is about winning a tit-for-tat game against the EU comm.

Or the EU winning a tit-for-tat game against a country that has dared to leave?