Eurostar brand to remain post-merger and to be complete in three years

[AlexNL]

And isn’t Thalys already getting some new trains soon too?

No, Thalys are currently renovating their fleet and it should last several years more. Short term, there are no plans for New Eurostar to acquire new trains.

Should the time come for new rolling stock to enter the stage then it'll probably be a replacement for the e300s and the entire Thalys fleet.

 

[Trainbike46]

They're 400m UK gauge TGV Reseau sets, basically, yes. Not the same but very similar.

a for eurostar group very key difference is that e300s cannot operate in the Netherlands or germany, while the thalys trains can.
if Thalys were to use the e300s, that would only be possible between Brussels and Paris. Their IZY brand did in fact use an e300 for a while.

Some of the Avanti services are being refurbished yet being replaced by new trains soon. Maybe not scrap but they could move them onto the Thalys routes. I believe long term Eurostar want to skip Brussels on the Amsterdam route. That takes newer rolling stock off other routes so I do believe they need to replace the last 8 trains.

The Amsterdam eurostar services are exclusively run by e320s. If they were to run without stopping in Brussels (which I can't imagine happening before the Amsterdam terminal is expanded, so definitely not for a few more years), the Amsterdam services would still run with e320s. The e300s can still be used for Paris services and services that don't go beyond Brussels, so there wouldn't be any need to replace them with new stock. I don't get why you think that changes to a service that runs entirely with e320s would mean e300s would require replacement?

 

[zwk500]

a for eurostar group very key difference is that e300s cannot operate in the Netherlands or germany, while the thalys trains can.

Only the Thalys PBKAs can operate in Germany, the PBAs are limited to France, Belgium and the Netherlands only. e300s do have the Dutch 1.5KV capability (for the French equivalent system) but lack the ATB/ETCS signalling.

The Amsterdam eurostar services are exclusively run by e320s. If they were to run without stopping in Brussels (which I can't imagine happening before the Amsterdam terminal is expanded, so definitely not for a few more years), the Amsterdam services would still run with e320s. The e300s can still be used for Paris services and services that don't go beyond Brussels, so there wouldn't be any need to replace them with new stock. I don't get why you think that changes to a service that runs entirely with e320s would mean e300s would require replacement?

I believe what @Citybreak1 was getting at is that if the additional London-Amsterdam services run, it will require 8 e320s to be pulled off London-Paris/Brussels routes, and therefore 8 additional sets of other stock to be found. They could be other stock shuffled around or retrieved from storage, of course.

 

[Trainbike46]

Only the Thalys PBKAs can operate in Germany, the PBAs are limited to France, Belgium and the Netherlands only. e300s do have the Dutch 1.5KV capability (for the French equivalent system) but lack the ATB/ETCS signalling.

It is true that only PBKAs can go to Germany, and PBAs are limited to France, Belgium and the Netherlands

However, the e300s are even more limited, to Belgium and France (and the UK, but that is not relevant for thalys services), which makes them of very limited utility to Thalys, of which almost all services go to either the Netherlands or Germany. And that limitation is a really key difference between the Thalys PBA/PBKA sets and the e300s

I believe what @Citybreak1 was getting at is that if the additional London-Amsterdam services run, it will require 8 e320s to be pulled off London-Paris/Brussels routes, and therefore 8 additional sets of other stock to be found. They could be other stock shuffled around or retrieved from storage, of course.

That would make some more sense, though I'm not sure how many extra Amsterdam services @Citybreak1 was expecting, but to require 8 extra e320s that would be quite a number!

I thought eurostar's stock utilisation was relatively low currently, hence the suggestion in some places that Thalys may use some of eurostar's E320s, so presumably they would either increase the use of their operational stock of retrieve from storage

looking at the timetable, the current 4 per day per direction service could be run with 5 trains if there is no sharing trains between routes

the 6:16 departure (arrives Amsterdam at 11:11) could form the 13:47 departure to London
the 08:16 departure (adam arrival at 13:14) could form the 16:47 departure to London
the 11:04 departure (adam arrival at 16:11) could form the 18:47 departure to London

that would leave the18:04 departure from London and the 07:47 departure from Amsterdam as separate trains, giving 5 units in use on the Amsterdam service each weekday with the current timetable

so I'm still curious where this 8 e300s came from

 

[popeter45]

thinking about the idea of seperating Brussels/amsterdam services
if using almost every tunnel slot of 3-4/hr in a tri-way service how many sets would they potentally need?

 

[Trainbike46]

thinking about the idea of seperating Brussels/amsterdam services
if using almost every tunnel slot of 3-4/hr in a tri-way service how many sets would they potentally need?

There's generally 4 slots per hour (xx:01, xx:04, xx:31 and xx:34 ex-london) plus a few extra xx:16 slots (though not every hour!), so that would be a lot of services!

 

[Bald Rick]

Re the e300s - Aren't they basically just TGV Reseau sets, which is also what the Thalys PBA sets are, so unifying those fleets would make sense.

Not really. I recall a Roger Ford article 30+ years ago where it was quoted that 90% of the components are different.

 

[FOH]

Not really. I recall a Roger Ford article 30+ years ago where it was quoted that 90% of the components are different.

My brain recalls something about the Brits designing the power cars, the French the coaches and the Belgians the toilets.

 

[43096]

My brain recalls something about the Brits designing the power cars, the French the coaches and the Belgians the toilets.

The power cars were all built by GEC-Alsthom in Belfort, but there were parts from various contractors (including Brush, IIRC?). From memory the Eurostar power cars use asynchronous traction motors, as opposed to the synchronous type preferred by SNCF at the time (TGV-A, TGV-R, Sybics etc), so even there it was a significant difference.

 

[Bald Rick]

My brain recalls something about the Brits designing the power cars, the French the coaches and the Belgians the toilets.

As Uncle Roger says, engineers design, designers style. The power cars were styled by a British design agency (Jones Garrod?), but what’s underneath is largely French design.

 

[Northumbriana]

That would look quite horrid, tbh. Although it is the colours of the city of Paris, the only city from which you can reach all of Eurostar group's destinations.

Personally I think dark blue and burgundy go quite well together. But perhaps they should come up with a green livery and rename the whole operation Green Speed. Although that sounds a bit like an environmentally friendly way to get off your face.

Yes I read the article last year. By skipping Brussels they can sell speed things up make it more airline. I read 3 hours 30 to Amsterdam.

Wouldn't they still have to crawl through Brussels or is there a bypass? Perhaps Brussels needs its own LGV interconnexion?

 

[zwk500]

Personally I think dark blue and burgundy go quite well together.

It feels rather golf club to me.

But perhaps they should come up with a green livery and rename the whole operation Green Speed. Although that sounds a bit like an environmentally friendly way to get off your face.

I think they'll stick with the Blue/Yellow branding for Eurostar for a while.

Wouldn't they still have to crawl through Brussels or is there a bypass? Perhaps Brussels needs its own LGV interconnexion?

There's no high-speed bypass, although just not stopping will help smooth operations quite a lot. There is also a suburban line of 90kph that skirts Brussels which could be used.
Belgian infrastructure planning is chaotic on a good day, but there is theoretically potential for a HSL skirting to the east of Brussels, with a new station at the Airport, a triangular junction to the Brussels-Liege-Aachen HSL, and then up to HSL-Zuid at Antwerp. However, the Belgian authorities are very unlikely to build it without external funding, and even then they'll need to have good reason to get trains away from Brussels city centre.

 

[MarcVD]

There is also a suburban line of 90kph that skirts Brussels which could be used.

Line 26 Halle - Etterbeek - Vilvorde. You cannot get on to that line coming from the HSL.

 

[zwk500]

Line 26 Halle - Etterbeek - Vilvorde. You cannot get on to that line coming from the HSL.

Good point.

 

[popeter45]

Line 26 Halle - Etterbeek - Vilvorde. You cannot get on to that line coming from the HSL.

it can be reached via switching to L94 at Beauregard but not sure what savings sucha reroute could achive

 

[MarcVD]

it can be reached via switching to L94 at Beauregard but not sure what savings sucha reroute could achive

Connection between HSL1 and L94 is single track and restricted speed so not used for regular moves, only for diversions. The L94 is mostly 140 km/h with speed restrictions to go through Enghien and the approach of Halle. It would certainly cost at least 5 minutes. And then there's line 26 itself which is 90 km/h only with severe speed restrictions around Etterbeek and Haren. Then the connection with line 25N which is also single track. I don't see any benefit for going via this slow and tortuous route which was never designed for fast transit in the first place, but only for local and freight trains. On the other hand, L96 between Halle and Bruxelles Midi should go to 200 km/h as soon as it gets ETCS signaling.

 

[SHD]

Unless I am mistaken, it is possible for a Thalys/Eurostar train to bypass the Junction by using the western belt line (L28). But I highly doubt that it would help gaining a single second on a London- or Paris-Amsterdam end-to-end journey.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not entirely sure what relevance a supposed idea for Eurostar to skip Brussels on their Amsterdam services has to *checks thread title* the Eurostar/Thalys merger and its branding but it definetly feels like we've wandered off slightly into the weeds here! I would ask that if anyone wants to continue the discussion that they do so in a new thread in Speculative Discussion (remember that you can use the "+Quote" button, and then use the "Insert Quotes" button to quote any posts from this thread that you'd like to in the new one!). Otherwise lets try and stick to the branding exercise please

 

[WizCastro197]

When will they be changing the website design to incorporate the new branding? Apologies if this has been answered, I have been absent on this thread for a while now.

 

[Citybreak1]

Seems it’s now being rolled out. New website and app and loyalty scheme coming soon.

 

[duncanp]

Here is an image of what the trains will look like

 

[Citybreak1]

https://twitter.com/eurostarjustinp/status/1674057093001670662?s=46

I think they retain the old colours rather than blue like above here’s one above

 

[TFN]

Interestingly, Cafe Metropole has been renamed to Eurostar Cafe, and is labelled on the carriage.

Has this change been mentioned before?

 

[Citybreak1]

All trains now carry Paris 2024 logo Team GB now too.

 

[urpert]

In case anyone’s interested I’ve just spotted a lightly-rebranded PBKA set at Bruxelles Midi. All Thalys branding replaced by the new Eurostar logo. (terrible photo as taken through train window and the Platform 1/2 fence!). The livery is basically unchanged but with the large star logo on the power car.

 

[islandmonkey]

Yes, wondered about the new logo on 374002 the other day. I like it.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

The power cars were all built by GEC-Alsthom in Belfort, but there were parts from various contractors (including Brush, IIRC?). From memory the Eurostar power cars use asynchronous traction motors, as opposed to the synchronous type preferred by SNCF at the time (TGV-A, TGV-R, Sybics etc), so even there it was a significant difference.

I think GEC in Preston and Trafford Park did a lot of work on the motors. I have been told the vent fans that make the roaring noise come from Northern Ireland