Eurostar brand to remain post-merger and to be complete in three years

[popeter45]

There wasn't a previous circled E, it was three horizontal lines with a * at the top right.

≡*

 

[ashkeba]

There wasn't a previous circled E, it was three horizontal lines with a * at the top right.

Before that one. It's in a post earlier in this thread.

 

[zwk500]

There wasn't a previous circled E, it was three horizontal lines with a * at the top right.

Eurostar's current logo is the 'Swoosh' E forming a tunnel, it ditched the E* logo a while ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Eurostar's current logo is the 'Swoosh' E forming a tunnel, it ditched the E* logo a while ago.

Correct, but it's never had one that was a star in a circle.

Before that one. It's in a post earlier in this thread.

Which post, please? So far as I recall (and I used it very early on) it was the three lines with a superscript star from opening.

 

[zwk500]

Correct, but it's never had one that was a star in a circle.

I could understand how confusion might have arisen over the E forming a circle.

Which post, please? So far as I recall (and I used it very early on) it was the three lines with a superscript star from opening.

Certainly the logo we remember was used on the inaugural trains: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50418077

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Since when? Thalys trains are supposed to be keeping their ruby red livery to differentiate their former services from what Eurostar currently operate. New future rolling stock orders might see a more uniform livery, but for now I haven't heard of any changes of the sort.

If the merged operation is going to use "blue" E320s on old Thalys services, it rather blurs the brand boundary.

 

[zwk500]

If the merged operation is going to use "blue" E320s on old Thalys services, it rather blurs the brand boundary.

They may well debrand the e320s that go onto the continent, unless they intend to work triangular diagrams. SNCF did when they took some of the e300s in the 2000s.

 

[Trainbike46]

They may well debrand the e320s that go onto the continent, unless they intend to work triangular diagrams. SNCF did when they took some of the e300s in the 2000s.

It would be more flexible to not debrand andy e320s, and allow for triangular diagrams if that ends up being desirable.

Eurostar is the brand for all the services, so no need for debranding anyway. That is rather different than when e300s went to SNCF, GNER or Izzy

 

[peteralan]

It's a pity they don't give as much attention to the REALITY of the merger on the ground as they seem to be giving to the branding. We had a nightmare experience at Brussels Midi in December when Thalys staff refused point blank to let us on their train to Aachen after our delayed Eurostar from London caused us to miss our ICE connection. They dismissed all appeals to the merger (not to mention Railteam/HOTNAT).

 

[Roast Veg]

It's a pity they don't give as much attention to the REALITY of the merger on the ground as they seem to be giving to the branding. We had a nightmare experience at Brussels Midi in December when Thalys staff refused point blank to let us on their train to Aachen after our delayed Eurostar from London caused us to miss our ICE connection. They dismissed all appeals to the merger (not to mention Railteam/HOTNAT).

Surely the merger will have little to no bearing on the use of HOTNAT?

 

[ashkeba]

Surely the merger will have little to no bearing on the use of HOTNAT?

Only that you won't be relying on the railteam guarantee because presumably they'll sell through Eurostar and exThalys tickets, so one company so clearly their responsibility.

Which post, please? So far as I recall (and I used it very early on) it was the three lines with a superscript star from opening.

Post 142. I may be confused on order.

 

[Roast Veg]

Only that you won't be relying on the railteam guarantee because presumably they'll sell through Eurostar and exThalys tickets, so one company so clearly their responsibility.

I wouldn't be so sure that it will make the blindest bit of difference.

 

[zwk500]

Post 142. I may be confused on order.

Eurostar have only used 2 (now 3 logos). The 3 stripes and Star was the one they started with and then the logo linked in post #142 is the one still in use for the Eurostar sub-brand, which is the 'Swoosh' or Stylised E forming a tunnel. The description of it as a Circled E may be confusing @Bletchleyite slightly.

I wouldn't be so sure that it will make the blindest bit of difference.

Eurostar Group have said they intend to offer integrated/through tickets and Eurostar are currently quite good about honouring missed reservations so it may become easier to book through travel between the two services.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Of course, let me the 1000th person to point out that ES and THA did offer through tickets in one booking at realistic prices for many years up to Covid: two tickets were issued, but it seemed to work just fine. Since then the fares simply seem to be a sum of the two sepearate (high) ones, so seldom worth considering. And the IC Brussel trains are a little more reliable these days, so that's reallly the best option to NL.

THA have a great lack of capacity, which may explain the reluctance to offer HOTNAT to Aachen but, mroe likely, THA are being 'asked' to help too often at present due to the dismal reliability of the ICE sets.

 

[Northumbriana]

Perhaps new rolling stock will be a joint venture between Siemens and Alstom with the livery a combination of the current Thalys and Eurostar colours?

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps new rolling stock will be a joint venture between Siemens and Alstom

I admire your optimism. No, this would be like a joint Chelsea-Manchester United side entering the Champions League.

with the livery a combination of the current Thalys and Eurostar colours?

That would look quite horrid, tbh. Although it is the colours of the city of Paris, the only city from which you can reach all of Eurostar group's destinations.

 

[Trainbike46]

I admire your optimism. No, this would be like a joint Chelsea-Manchester United side entering the Champions League.

That would look quite horrid, tbh. Although it is the colours of the city of Paris, the only city from which you can reach all of Eurostar group's destinations.

Brussels connects to all Eurostar groups destinations, Paris doesn't (because of CDG/Marne-La-Vallee trains from Brussels and, for now, London)

 

[Fragezeichnen]

I admire your optimism. No, this would be like a joint Chelsea-Manchester United side entering the Champions League.

Well, they did try to merge not long ago...

As already mentioned, there is the SNCF tendency to 'buy French'.
However, Alstom still has the same problem that allegedly sunk their Eurostar bid - sticking stubbornly to the 2 power cars + hauled trailer concept means that for any customer which wants to run maximum length trains but doesn't want double-deck carriages(e.g. DB, E*), they will always fall short on passenger capacity compared to any distributed traction design.

So perhaps the perfect solution would be Alstom bodyshells with Siemens traction equipment

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm surprised Eurostar haven't gone double deck to be honest. I guess they reckon they'd not sell the extra seats or the terminals couldn't handle them?

 

[BahrainLad]

2 x TGV Duplex (i.e. a 400m formaton) have a seating capacity of 1,016 seats, which is actually not that more than the e320s' 902 seats.

Plus there is the issue that Eurostar at the moment can't fully utilise its existing capacity as being discussed on the other thread.

 

[AlexNL]

Alstom have designs with distributed traction as well such as the AGV, the Pendolino, and more recently the things which they acquired from Bombardier (the Zefiro range).

The TGV Duplex wouldn't be a good match for Eurostar as it's designed for French platforms with boarding at 55cm - the majority of platforms served by Eurostar is at 76cm.

 

[Citybreak1]

Perhaps new rolling stock will be a joint venture between Siemens and Alstom with the livery a combination of the current Thalys and Eurostar colours?

Surely they will have to scrap the last 8 E300’s soon as they head towards a 5th Amsterdam service by 2024? Also Disneyland withdrawn this surely paves way for 8 new trains? And isn’t Thalys already getting some new trains soon too?

 

[Trainbike46]

Surely they will have to scrap the last 8 E300’s soon as they head towards a 5th Amsterdam service by 2024? Also Disneyland withdrawn this surely paves way for 8 new trains? And isn’t Thalys already getting some new trains soon too?

why would they scrap the remaining e300s? They were refurbished not that long ago?

They can't be used on Amsterdam services, true, but there's enough Paris and Brussels services to use them on

 

[Citybreak1]

why would they scrap the remaining e300s? They were refurbished not that long ago?

They can't be used on Amsterdam services, true, but there's enough Paris and Brussels services to use them on

Some of the Avanti services are being refurbished yet being replaced by new trains soon. Maybe not scrap but they could move them onto the Thalys routes. I believe long term Eurostar want to skip Brussels on the Amsterdam route. That takes newer rolling stock off other routes so I do believe they need to replace the last 8 trains.

 

[zwk500]

Some of the Avanti services are being refurbished yet being replaced by new trains soon. Maybe not scrap but they could move them onto the Thalys routes. I believe long term Eurostar want to skip Brussels on the Amsterdam route. That takes newer rolling stock off other routes so I do believe they need to replace the last 8 trains.

Really? That's interesting from a market share perspective.

Re the e300s - Aren't they basically just TGV Reseau sets, which is also what the Thalys PBA sets are, so unifying those fleets would make sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? That's interesting from a market share perspective.

Re the e300s - Aren't they basically just TGV Reseau sets, which is also what the Thalys PBA sets are, so unifying those fleets would make sense.

They're 400m UK gauge TGV Reseau sets, basically, yes. Not the same but very similar.

 

[Citybreak1]

Really? That's interesting from a market share perspective.

Re the e300s - Aren't they basically just TGV Reseau sets, which is also what the Thalys PBA sets are, so unifying those fleets would make sense.

Yes I read the article last year. By skipping Brussels they can sell speed things up make it more airline. I read 3 hours 30 to Amsterdam.

 

[jon0844]

Yes I read the article last year. By skipping Brussels they can sell speed things up make it more airline. I read 3 hours 30 to Amsterdam.

Makes sense to run at least some services fast. If they can be filled up from the start, there's no reason to stop anywhere and speed will attract more people - win win.

Of course, we are now finding that post-Brexit, we're finding new ways to introduce delays. Imagine if we were in the Schengen Area...!

 

[SHD]

They're 400m UK gauge TGV Reseau sets, basically, yes. Not the same but very similar.

Very similar? They have different traction motors (synchronous for Réseau sets, asynchronous for E300s), and while the traction packages are based on the same design, there are significant differences (e.g. in the cooling system)...

 

[duesselmartin]

The 1960s NS logo is still controversial in some quarters. Bring back the wheel on wings! And the SBB/CFF logo is only from the 1980s.

Why is the NS logo controversial? It is basically a combination of a flipped N and an S.

As to SBB. The logo in its current red form is 40 years old. The cross with arrows 50 years.
The BR logo in its current form is still recognisable and synonimous with "trains" . Eurostar has its 3rd logo in 30 years