Eurostar brand to remain post-merger and to be complete in three years

[ABB125]

Where in 'the rest of Europe' do they do this? Are these services comparable to Eurostar? If they are 'intra-Schengen' then no checks take place. Trains crossing the Schengen border are very few.

I went between Salzburg and Munich last week. The German police got on just after the border and checked everyone's passport (or other valid ID documents), before alighting further along the line

 

[ainsworth74]

The German police got on just after the border and checked everyone's passport (or other valid ID documents), before alighting further along the line

I had Danish police check my passport (pre-pandemic) just before we left Rødby having come over from Germany on the train-ferry (sadly discontinued) and I also had German police check my passport on departure from Frankfurt an der Oder on the way to Berlin having come from Warsaw.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had Danish police check my passport (pre-pandemic) just before we left Rødby having come over from Germany on the train-ferry (sadly discontinued) and I also had German police check my passport on departure from Frankfurt an der Oder on the way to Berlin having come from Warsaw.

I've had that on the approach to Puttgarden, they almost didn't believe me when I said I was getting off there (there's nothing there, a few houses and not even a shop) and watched very carefully to see that I did!

 

[JonasB]

Where in 'the rest of Europe' do they do this? Are these services comparable to Eurostar? If they are 'intra-Schengen' then no checks take place. Trains crossing the Schengen border are very few.

Until the Allegro trains between Finland and Russia were cancelled due to the war, immigration checks were done onboard the train.

 

[RT4038]

Until the Allegro trains between Finland and Russia were cancelled due to the war, immigration checks were done onboard the train.

But they don't operate now, and I would suggest that the few trains a day between Russia and Finland are not in the same operational circumstances as Eurostar, running non-stop between two inland capitals competing with airlines on journey times. The number of passengers travelling are also fairly small.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Not big on the new branding at all to be honest. The typeface looks cheap and even somewhat dated and the star just doesn't cut it for me. For what it's worth I still think the original Eurostar logo was the best, and I haven't been too big on subsequent rebrands ever since. I've not really been a big fan of the idea of the merging either to be honest but what's done is done now anyway so at least the old Thalys stock will retain their red livery even though it's strange to have two liveries for a single brand.

There's a new unified livery/uniform etc coming in the next few years which will supersede both current Eurostar/Thalys liveries and uniforms, it'll just be a mess until this is all complete, as we in the UK are very familiar with our TOCs changing hands frequently

 

[AlexNL]

Here's an article about the thinking behind the new brand:
DesignStudio’s Eurostar Group rebrand is rooted in 90s rail design history

The Eurostar Group – a singular entity integrating Eurostar and Thalys as of May 2022 – has launched its new brand from DesignStudio, including a refreshed logo, colour palette, photography and suite of illustrations. Designed to “respect the heritage of both brands, while modernising for the future”, the refresh returns to an earlier iteration of Eurostar, the very first in fact, in 1994. Switching out the metallic, calligraphic E Eurostar has used in recent years, DesignStudio reintroduces its original star or “Spark” with a new range of motion behaviours. In the wordmark, the star appears housed in an E – a touch that’s on the rise in branding this year.

The new Spark logo has the ability to function as a standalone graphic device, appearing across train livery, stations and digital platforms. In these instances, the star can rotate and lengthen to become a navigational device, pointing between city destinations. According to a DesignStudio press release, the spark is “the literal and metaphorical north star of the brand”.

...

 

[Sorcerer]

There's a new unified livery/uniform etc coming in the next few years which will supersede both current Eurostar/Thalys liveries and uniforms, it'll just be a mess until this is all complete, as we in the UK are very familiar with our TOCs changing hands frequently

Since when? Thalys trains are supposed to be keeping their ruby red livery to differentiate their former services from what Eurostar currently operate. New future rolling stock orders might see a more uniform livery, but for now I haven't heard of any changes of the sort.

Eurostar ex-Thalys trains will keep ‘ruby’ red livery after 2024 merger

Thalys is refurbishing its trains at considerable expense. In 2024, Thalys will merge with Eurostar. Thalys will disappear as brand. Eurostar has blue and yellow as main colours. So is the refurbis…

tripbytrip.org

“Eurostar has become an umbrella brand”, Gosselin is quoted by RailTech.com. “We will retain two products: red and blue. Red for the current Thalys trains and blue for Eurostar. Then we will have two products that are a little different from each other, but under a common brand.”

 

[popeter45]

Since when? Thalys trains are supposed to be keeping their ruby red livery to differentiate their former services from what Eurostar currently operate. New future rolling stock orders might see a more uniform livery, but for now I haven't heard of any changes of the sort.

i suspect in that case it will be same branding/logo diffrent colours thou that artical may well be out of date by now?

 

[Sorcerer]

i suspect in that case it will be same branding/logo diffrent colours thou that artical may well be out of date by now?

It could well be out of date in which case I must plead ignorance. Also, it may just as well be a cost effective measure since current Thalys stock hasn't long been refurbished. Any replacements are more likely to have a more uniform brand in future but only time will tell.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

The last I heard was indeed the Eurostar red/blue concept, but I believe into the mid to long term a single unified brand design is the goal

 

[Sorcerer]

The last I heard was indeed the Eurostar red/blue concept, but I believe into the mid to long term a single unified brand design is the goal

Makes sense from a corporate point of view, and had the merger been approved before Thalys put in the refurbishment orders of their current fleet we'd probably see a unified brand livery sooner.

 

[popeter45]

It could well be out of date in which case I must plead ignorance. Also, it may just as well be a cost effective measure since current Thalys stock hasn't long been refurbished. Any replacements are more likely to have a more uniform brand in future but only time will tell.

wonder when they will consider replacements, next year first of the PBA sets will be 30 years old and Sud-ests sets got retired between 41 and 34 years old so if we say 35 years would need replacing around 2029 to early 2030's

 

[Sorcerer]

wonder when they will consider replacements, next year first of the PBA sets will be 30 years old and Sud-ests sets got retired between 41 and 34 years old so if we say 35 years would need replacing around 2029 to early 2030's

Hard to say. Possibly Alstom Avelia stock since they're replacing the ageing TGV sets, but Siemens might also be a real possibility as well.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

My money's on the new TGV-M, does anyone know if the length requirement still remains for trains using Eurotunnel? If not I can see doubled up sets being used on London services to provide a common fleet perhaps, but this digresses from this thread's topic

 

[popeter45]

My money's on the new TGV-M, does anyone know if the length requirement still remains for trains using Eurotunnel? If not I can see doubled up sets being used on London services to provide a common fleet perhaps, but this digresses from this thread's topic

rules i belive now are still must be 375m overall but can be 2 units so long as plan is in place on how to move people from one to another if a evacuation is needed, long term if the desire ever was for shorter units would need somebody to front up costs to add extra cross passages

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

My money's on the new TGV-M, does anyone know if the length requirement still remains for trains using Eurotunnel? If not I can see doubled up sets being used on London services to provide a common fleet perhaps, but this digresses from this thread's topic

Will Eurostar not prefer a uniform Siemens fleet though? Ignoring the microfleet of 373s which I doubt will survive the PBA/PBKA replacement order anyway.

 

[Wolfie]

Will Eurostar not prefer a uniform Siemens fleet though? Ignoring the microfleet of 373s which I doubt will survive the PBA/PBKA replacement order anyway.

A company majority owned by the state-owned French national railway company will always come under pressure to buy French....

 

[AlexNL]

Will Eurostar not prefer a uniform Siemens fleet though?

Before they got the e320s, they had a uniform Alstom fleet. Didn't stop them from buying from the Germans unfortunately.

 

[zwk500]

A company majority owned by the state-owned French national railway company will always come under pressure to buy French....

And yet Eurostar bought the e320s. Though the french took it to the European Court and it allegedly cost a couple of French railway officials their jobs when the Velaro was certified for the Tunnel.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Yeah, as mentioned, I don't personally reckon any new Thalys/Eurostar fleet will be anything but Alsthom

 

[ashkeba]

again, even in the rail industry. see NS, SNCB, SBB.
Mind you, DB should change its logo every fortnight with that logic in mind.

The 1960s NS logo is still controversial in some quarters. Bring back the wheel on wings! And the SBB/CFF logo is only from the 1980s.

 

[Tester]

And the SBB/CFF logo is only from the 1980s.

A bit earlier than that - I remember seeing it on a poster in the mid-70s.

Yeah, as mentioned, I don't personally reckon any new Thalys/Eurostar fleet will be anything but Alsthom

No h in Alstom - removed to make it more 'international' in the late 90s (I worked for them then).

Handy actually - gave us the anagram Almost!

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Ah, my mistake

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Before they got the e320s, they had a uniform Alstom fleet. Didn't stop them from buying from the Germans unfortunately.

The Siemens order was openly criticised by senior government ministers and reportedly the French President even raised it as an issue at international level. Alstom spent years in court trying to stop the deal, and only agreed to stop when French government placed a large order for TGVs. I can't imagine the French will let the same 'mistake' happen again.

 

[zwk500]

The Siemens order was openly criticised by senior government ministers and reportedly the French President even raised it as an issue at international level. Alstom spent years in court trying to stop the deal, and only agreed to stop when French government placed a large order for TGVs. I can't imagine the French will let the same 'mistake' happen again.

AIUI, under EU law, Eurostar must publish the bid to open tender and the bidder must be selected according to the criteria published. The various national railway usually put 'must be built in the country' or something similar (the french probably put 'manufacturer name must begin with A and end in "lstom"') to protect their own domestic suppliers but Eurostar is a tri-country service, so a more open competition is not impossible.

Siemens are developing the Velaro Nova concept, and for all the recent troubles with the new ICEs in Germany the e320s have worked very well for Eurostar. It will also depend on manufacturing capacity - if Alstom is building domestic trains for SNCF then Siemens may be in with a good opportunity as the 12 e300s and 9 Thalys PBAs are now nearly 30 yeas old, so will probably need to start construction on replacements in about 5 years or so.

 

[LOL The Irony]

AIUI, under EU law, Eurostar must publish the bid to open tender and the bidder must be selected according to the criteria published. The various national railway usually put 'must be built in the country' or something similar (the french probably put 'manufacturer name must begin with A and end in "lstom"') to protect their own domestic suppliers but Eurostar is a tri-country service, so a more open competition is not impossible.

If it's mandated that the manufacturer must be based in a country Eurostar serve, that still won't rule out Siemens as Thalys serve Germany and Siemens have their new factory in Goole.

 

[zwk500]

If it's mandated that the manufacturer must be based in a country Eurostar serve, that still won't rule out Siemens as Thalys serve Germany and Siemens have their new factory in Goole.

Any new Eurostar/Thalys train is unlikely to be constructed in the UK due to the difficulty getting the trains to the tracks (any such train will be too big for UK gauge). And there's nothing to say a requirement for location of manufacture will be included at all. Eurostar could invite bids from anywhere, including outside the EU, if it wished (Hitachi may be interested in offering an A-Train).
Eurostar was 40% SNCF when the e320s were bought, so it could be outvoted by the other shareholders ganging up. It's now 55% SNCF. Although they have a majority, they can't afford to anger the other shareholders too far. If Siemens offer a cheaper product than Alstom, it's going to take a lot of work from SNCF to persuade SNCB/NMBS and the Canadian Teachers' Pensions fund to go for Alstom.

 

[ashkeba]

A bit earlier than that - I remember seeing it on a poster in the mid-70s.

The previous logo was not massively different but I am confident the red one is 1980s.

But what is a new logo? The UK double arrows were updated last year. The Eurostar one claims to be an update of the previus circled e.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The previous logo was not massively different but I am confident the red one is 1980s.

But what is a new logo? The UK double arrows were updated last year. The Eurostar one claims to be an update of the previus circled e.

There wasn't a previous circled E, it was three horizontal lines with a * at the top right.