Eurostar Direct St Pancras to Amsterdam

Bald Rick

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I believe that there will be a market for rail between London and Amsterdam. There is now. That doesn't mean that services will have the same effect as has been felt on the Lonond to Paris or London to Brussels routes. Flying will still be attractive, particularly so for those who are living or working nearer to an airport than they are to St Pancras.
And for those who use Schipol to transfer to other flights. I don't know, but suspect that a quite high proportion of KLM passengers flying from London are doing this.
 
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Goldfish62

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Yes I can't understand it. It's an hour or so when I flew LCY-AMS with BA! What's the benefit of the train?
If you're going city centre to city centre and add in the check in time the differential is soon eroded. And flying is a lot more hassle as well. I know you flew from City airport but that's not where the majority, and the cheapest flights go from.
 

blackfive460

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*I've said before, but the one possible silver lining to Brexit and 'taking back our borders' is that the inbound UK border for Eurostar may have to move to St P. This would make the inbound journey times more attractive.
More attractive? Really?

In the days of 'Lille Loophole' passport checks for Brussels services at St. Pancras I've known it take well over 45 minutes from train to exit and still had plenty of people in the queue behind me.
Doing those checks at the departure point is far more convenient for passengers though it would be even better done on the train.
 

Bald Rick

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If you're going city centre to city centre and add in the check in time the differential is soon eroded. And flying is a lot more hassle as well. I know you flew from City airport but that's not where the majority, and the cheapest flights go from.
But, on average, Eurostar is more expensive than flying. If I want to go to Amsterdam next Friday, the cheapest flight is £30, and there are 20 flights at £75 or less. If I want to go to Brussels on Eurostar, there are only two trains at £84, and the rest are £117 or higher. It's safe to assume Amsterdam fares will be a little higher still. If price is your marker, then you'll fly.

Eurostar won't be after for the cheap end of the market that fly from Luton and Stansted, at least not in significant numbers (although of course there will be a cheap headline fare). They'll be after those that fly from London City and Heathrow.
 

Bald Rick

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More attractive? Really?

In the days of 'Lille Loophole' passport checks for Brussels services at St. Pancras I've known it take well over 45 minutes from train to exit and still had plenty of people in the queue behind me.
Doing those checks at the departure point is far more convenient for passengers though it would be even better done on the train.
Yes, because one assumes that UK Immigration would make the arrival facilities fit for purpose at St P. If you can get through Luton immigration in 60 seconds when three A320s arrive inside 5 minutes, there's no excuse at St P.
 

Bald Rick

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Didn't Eurostar start with 2-3 services a day to Paris, way back in 1994?
Yes two a day, but that was a trial service. It was always intended to run more. Otherwise 31 trains in the fleet would have been a touch pessimistic on reliability.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Yes, because one assumes that UK Immigration would make the arrival facilities fit for purpose at St P. If you can get through Luton immigration in 60 seconds when three A320s arrive inside 5 minutes, there's no excuse at St P.
Have you ever actually been to Luton?

If you get 3 arrivals at once, half an hour is nearer it, if you're lucky. One arrival it clears pretty quickly.

But then again having it at a train's destination creates a vulnerability - anyone who wants in can just pull the door release on open line and leg it.
 
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Groningen

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There is now news that Amsterdam - London may start at Easter 2018. Hope it is fakenews!

Eurostar plans Easter launch to Amsterdam

EUROSTAR will launch regular services to Amsterdam next Easter, it has been revealed.

The operator ran the first e320 Siemens Velaro to carry passengers between London and Brussels two days ago, and the event was accompanied by reports that at least two trains a day would be running to Amsterdam before Christmas.

However Eurostar has denied this, saying that although its test trains have been running successfully on the Dutch network, and that these tests will continue, a public launch of regular services is not expected until Easter 2018.

A company source told Railnews: “Driver training has been going well, and the start of e320 services on the Brussels route is certainly a start, but we do not expect to run regular services to the Netherlands until Easter 2018, to coincide with the beginning of the City Break season. An inaugural train to Amsterdam is likely later this year, but we think that will be it until 2018.”

The new Eurostar route north of Brussels will serve two major Dutch cities. Rotterdam is the country’s business capital, while the real capital Amsterdam is a favourite tourist destination. The journey time from London St Pancras International to Amsterdam Centraal will be under four hours.

Eurostar has indicated that the stopping pattern between Brussels and Amsterdam is not yet set in stone, and there is also the possibility that trains from London could run beyond Amsterdam, perhaps to Utrecht, if there proves to be a business case for an extension.
Source: http://railnews.mobi/news/2017/05/2...to.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 

33Hz

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I really do hope we might get trains to Cologne one day, as I'd quite like to use the train instead of flying - especially for leisure trips.
But you can do that today by changing to a Thalys or an ICE at Brussels. You can even by a through ticket from Eurostar. It's a doddle.
 

GingerSte

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jon0844

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But you can do that today by changing to a Thalys or an ICE at Brussels. You can even by a through ticket from Eurostar. It's a doddle.
Yeah, done that. But I'd prefer not to change (as would many, as we know with trains in the UK too). And with regards to Berlin, I wouldn't do a day trip by train. I'd have made it two days, and could have done so this time if I'd wanted.

I accept flying is cheaper (well, if you ignore those extra charges like getting to the airport, drop off fees, the inflated prices for food - where there's no Tesco Express outside the airport - etc) but I'd still consider the train. I'd sooner sit in a train enjoying food and drink while moving than set up in even the nicest lounge while being still.

I've used the Eurostar lounges a handful of times. I always value arriving late over luxury (which isn't always luxury anyway).

I'm not a snob though. Like many, I'll consider what's best for that occasion. Sometimes I'll fly and sometimes I've driven. Train would be a nice option, and it's a shame the current list of destinations is still small. Amsterdam could prove the justification for further extensions.
 

Bald Rick

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Have you ever actually been to Luton?

If you get 3 arrivals at once, half an hour is nearer it, if you're lucky. One arrival it clears pretty quickly.
Err, yes, several times a year. I've not queued at immigration for more than 2 minutes for a couple of years.
 

TheSeeker

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anyone who wants in can just pull the door release on open line and leg it.
I think this is the main point of the 'problem' of immigration in the UK. Once a person is on UK soil they can do anything they like. Get a job, receive free health care, open a bank account, stay in a hotel, buy a washing machine on HP, get a library card. The list goes on and on. This is why the UK is so attractive to people from outside the EU.

I live in Belgium where it is impossible to do any of those things without an ID card. As a foreigner (from Wales) living in Belgium in order to get an ID card I had to show that I was working, paying tax and social security and a policeman came around to my house (even each time I have moved house since then) to check that I actually live there. I would think that all Schengen countries have the same regulations.

Once the UK solves this problem then the perceived problem on illegal immigration will simply not be there. People will be less likely to try to get to the UK if registering as a migrant is just as difficult as it is in France.

Ben
 

theageofthetra

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I think this is the main point of the 'problem' of immigration in the UK. Once a person is on UK soil they can do anything they like. Get a job, receive free health care, open a bank account, stay in a hotel, buy a washing machine on HP, get a library card. The list goes on and on. This is why the UK is so attractive to people from outside the EU.

I live in Belgium where it is impossible to do any of those things without an ID card. As a foreigner (from Wales) living in Belgium in order to get an ID card I had to show that I was working, paying tax and social security and a policeman came around to my house (even each time I have moved house since then) to check that I actually live there. I would think that all Schengen countries have the same regulations.

Once the UK solves this problem then the perceived problem on illegal immigration will simply not be there. People will be less likely to try to get to the UK if registering as a migrant is just as difficult as it is in France.

Ben
Absolutely correct. A problem entirely of the making of our inept politicians.
 

jon0844

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Once the UK solves this problem then the perceived problem on illegal immigration will simply not be there. People will be less likely to try to get to the UK if registering as a migrant is just as difficult as it is in France.
We don't seem to want ID cards, despite many benefits (given how much we have to do to verify ourselves daily for online services etc).

We were convinced that leaving the EU would solve everything with immigration, when it clearly won't as the problems can be solved by us - and we could have remained in the EU.

It's funny that since the referendum, we obviously have people talking about Brexit but hardly anyone is going on about immigration as they were when it seemed like it was the only thing that mattered in our lives.
 

Bletchleyite

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I am happy to have an ID card, I have one anyway that I carry all the time, my driving licence which is a de-facto UK ID card.

I was *not* happy with the National Identity Register, nor with some of the more draconian proposed policies relating to them.

It was Blairite Labour that ruined the concept. A "non driving driving licence" with data allowing it to be used for travel would have done.

I think it'll be back. We've already reached the point where if you don't drive nor travel abroad you will find it very hard to do a DBS check, for example.
 

Jordeh

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I think this is the main point of the 'problem' of immigration in the UK. Once a person is on UK soil they can do anything they like. Get a job, receive free health care, open a bank account, stay in a hotel, buy a washing machine on HP, get a library card. The list goes on and on. This is why the UK is so attractive to people from outside the EU.
That's not true, people who are illegally in the UK get arrested and are put in detention centres.
 

47513 Severn

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That's not true, people who are illegally in the UK get arrested and are put in detention centres.
Some of them are. A great many more are not and that is with the knowledge of the authorities who simply declare them 'liable to detention' while their asylum claims are investigated and leave them to it. A previous employer of mine blatantly employed a number of illegal workers and it was common knowledge. They had a tier 2 sponsorship licence and enticed the workers on the promise that they would eventually be sponsored. That meant they had them by the balls and could pay them very little money, the deal was that the properly sponsored people (who were equally trapped with the employer) would share their wages with the illegal guys.

When my relations with the company turned sour I reported them. This included exact details of the people concerned, when and where they worked, the obviously fake job vacancies used to justify their sponsorships and all the other evidence they could want. After a lengthy delay the immigration service replied saying it was not a priority for further action and they would be doing nothing.

For whatever reasons, it would seem a blind eye is being turned a lot of the time and a great many people are disappearing with the tacit consent of the authorities.
 

jon0844

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That Sky TV series also showed that most people were bailed and simply disappeared. Hardly worth even trying to catch them, and I suspect from what has been written above they rarely do.

I expect that every now and then they do a big sting and invite the media, to serve as both a cheap deterrent and also to save time and money due to cuts and low morale.
 

Bald Rick

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First off? Mostly I find it quite quick, but if you get even two arrivals at once it is much slower I find. 10-11pm when all the planes come back to base is a nightmare.
Nope, typically around halfway through the disembarkmemt, and often amongst the last as I like the emergency exit rows in the middle. 2230ish arrival. The e-gates are brilliant.
 
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theageofthetra

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Some of them are. A great many more are not and that is with the knowledge of the authorities who simply declare them 'liable to detention' while their asylum claims are investigated and leave them to it. A previous employer of mine blatantly employed a number of illegal workers and it was common knowledge. They had a tier 2 sponsorship licence and enticed the workers on the promise that they would eventually be sponsored. That meant they had them by the balls and could pay them very little money, the deal was that the properly sponsored people (who were equally trapped with the employer) would share their wages with the illegal guys.

When my relations with the company turned sour I reported them. This included exact details of the people concerned, when and where they worked, the obviously fake job vacancies used to justify their sponsorships and all the other evidence they could want. After a lengthy delay the immigration service replied saying it was not a priority for further action and they would be doing nothing.

For whatever reasons, it would seem a blind eye is being turned a lot of the time and a great many people are disappearing with the tacit consent of the authorities.
Again correct and also happening in job centres/work programme providers up and down the country. I saw it first hand and from those who worked there who were sick of the corruption.
 

theageofthetra

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I am happy to have an ID card, I have one anyway that I carry all the time, my driving licence which is a de-facto UK ID card.

I was *not* happy with the National Identity Register, nor with some of the more draconian proposed policies relating to them.

It was Blairite Labour that ruined the concept. A "non driving driving licence" with data allowing it to be used for travel would have done.

I think it'll be back. We've already reached the point where if you don't drive nor travel abroad you will find it very hard to do a DBS check, for example.
As would I. I always keep I.D on me when abroad as it can save A LOT of problems.
 

paddington

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Once a person is on UK soil they can do anything they like. Get a job, receive free health care, open a bank account, stay in a hotel, buy a washing machine on HP, get a library card. The list goes on and on.
It is no longer possible to open a bank account without proper ID and proof of immigration status. Belgium has plenty of illegal immigrants who manage to have jobs without ID cards. Nobody gets free health care in Belgium (I think). Nobody will lend money to an unknown person to buy a washing machine - you have to at least appear on some electronic databases which means some sort of genuine record for some time.

Most illegal immigrants in the UK are people who entered legitimately and then didn't leave when their time was up. Refugees are a different matter, because true refugees are allowed to enter illegally.

I live in Belgium where it is impossible to do any of those things without an ID card. As a foreigner (from Wales) living in Belgium in order to get an ID card I had to show that I was working, paying tax and social security and a policeman came around to my house (even each time I have moved house since then) to check that I actually live there. I would think that all Schengen countries have the same regulations.
Yet, despite daily life being tracked to such an extent in most of continental Europe, the Belgian and Berlin terrorists managed to evade capture for some time, such that Schengen countries were considering requiring ID to buy international train tickets.

I am happy with the way the UK, and other countries following a British system (i.e. British territories, Ireland, Canada, Australia, NZ, and Malta / the US to some extent) do things and I have no problem with immigration, legal or otherwise (except that illegal immigrants should not complain when the rules catch up with them) since people just do what makes economic sense to them.

On the topic of ID cards, Ireland recently introduced a "passport card" which is simply the biodata page of a passport with no attached blank pages. I would happily have a UK passport card, but I doubt that anybody would dare to suggest this in the near future. The US also has a passport card but for some reason the holder's signature is not captured which leads to certain problems compared to a passport booklet when using it inside the US.
 

Groningen

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As Thalys the Eurostar will not be allowed for internal travel between Amsterdam and Rotterdam and v.v.. Remember it is an all reserved train!
 

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