Eurostar to Amsterdam in 2016

[radamfi]

Very sensible to cut off one of the largest economies in Europe from everyone else. That would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If Eurostar shut up shop for Paris and Brussels that would really focus the mind.

 

[shinkansen1966]

I think the Dutch authorities are rather naive in announcing this. Maybe Eurostar are trying to up the ante by putting pressure on the Home Office to agree to a sensible immigration procedure.

Look at the space required for passport and security at Brussels Midi. This is to satisfy the UK government home office's requirements. It's difficult to see how these facilities can be replicated at Rotterdam C, Amsterdam C and Schipol. And all for just two planned Eurostar trains a day.

Expect the Lyon-Lille disembark - London option to be used.

 

[jon0844]

You can tell that UKBA are doing their border checks on the cheap. Just look at the Eurostar timetable.

The last Paris/Brussels bound Eurostar of the day calls at Ebbsfleet at 13:15. After that, there are no more outbound Eurostars calling their until the next morning.

Then a couple of evening Paris/Brussels bound Eurostar call at Ashford between 17:00 and 18:30 suggesting that once UBKA finish their lunchtime shift at Ebbsfleet, they travel down to Ashford for an evening shift.

Or we could join Schengen and be spared these DDR style checks which are done on the cheap. As I have said before, even the Russians manage do their checks on the international trains.

But we will never join Schengen.

I think 'we' have to make sure the UKBA doesn't dictate to us what transport options we have, or when we can travel. If that means some sort of legal challenge, or pressure on the Government - or whatever - then so be it.

Plenty of small airports around the world manage to get customs/passport officers to drive down to do checks and then go off again. UKBA would surely be paid for their services, but shouldn't be able to refuse (nor come up with a ridiculous charge).

 

[HSTEd]

Then to be honest London bound will still be easier to fly,great way to get people off the planes...

Which is why the Airline lobby arranged it this way.....

 

[radamfi]

I used to go to Hungary by train when the Iron Curtain still existed. Even that was easier than entering the UK today!

 

[HSTEd]

Why was anything ever built for international trains there? Besides the Olympics, it's just too close to St Pancras (and of course, trains didn't even stop there for that!).

It was originally going to be the London stop for Regional Eurostar.
Unfortunately, as well all know, that never really happened.

 

[jon0844]

I used to go to Hungary by train when the Iron Curtain still existed. Even that was easier than entering the UK today!

Even with passport checks, it should still be pretty easy to get into the UK by train from mainland Europe. Certainly no more awkward than arriving by air or sea.

As and when we seek to have more destinations reachable from London (or one day, beyond) then we have to conclude that the passport checks will need to be done in the UK or else it will be a new 'barrier' for every new destination.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think 'we' have to make sure the UKBA doesn't dictate to us what transport options we have, or when we can travel. If that means some sort of legal challenge, or pressure on the Government - or whatever - then so be it.

Quite. It's about time a Government told the UKBA to stop messing around and starting doing checks on board services. A lot of the time they could probably hop on a train at St Pancras get off at Lille and then join another service back to the UK from there. Rinse and repeat. There might still be a need for security checks before boarding (though I'm not convinced it would really be neccessary) but I'd have thought it would be possible to do that without much alteration to existing infrastructure.

I'm not sure there's a need to join Schengen, just a need to get the UKBA to do the logical thing.

 

[radamfi]

They used to do checks on the train in the early days of Eurostar.

 

[Chris125]

I do not expect UKBA to allow Eurostar to carry passengers locally between Amsterdam and Brussels.

As I understand it everyone will have to leave the train at Brussels whether they are travelling to the UK or not, so I don't see why - it's a different situation to the 'Lille Loophole'.

As these services will be making a number of calls on the way to Amsterdam they do appear well suited to domestic use, while today's news about East Coast appears to signal they want to be more than just a cross-channel operator.

Chris

 

[shinkansen1966]

Quite. It's about time a Government told the UKBA to stop messing around and starting doing checks on board services.

There used to be on board passport checks. And then it stopped.

 

[anti-pacer]

Incidentally, is Stratford International ever going to have services calling there?

If not, they should rename it "Stratford Westfield" or "Stratford Parkway", and call Stratford "Stratford Central".

 

[jon0844]

It is a bit of an odd name when it doesn't have any international services, and never will.

Given the HS1 charge, maybe it should be called London Stratford Premier?

 

[ainsworth74]

They used to do checks on the train in the early days of Eurostar.

There used to be on board passport checks. And then it stopped.

Alright then let me rephrase. They should force UKBA to start doing it again.

 

[edwin_m]

Couldn't the international part of St Pancas be designated "airside" so that anyone who is detected by passport checks on arrival could be returned to their origin without officially having entered the UK?

 

[jon0844]

Couldn't the international part of St Pancas be designated "airside" so that anyone who is detected by passport checks on arrival could be returned to their origin without officially having entered the UK?

That's the solution I'd be seeking.

I do think on train checks would limit growth too, so not a viable solution either - even though it was indeed done in the early days (as I used Eurostar shortly after it opened).

 

[reb0118]

Why not have immigration checks done on board with a ghost stop at Calais Frethun to allow any undesirables to be ejected prior to entering the UK.

 

[anme]

That's the solution I'd be seeking.

I do think on train checks would limit growth too, so not a viable solution either - even though it was indeed done in the early days (as I used Eurostar shortly after it opened).

Yes, on balance I also think the best solution is to have the UK border controls at St Pancras (and Ebbsfleet and Ashford). Probably rules out through international trains ever running beyond London which is a pity - but if we have to choose between serving more mainland destinations or more British cities, I vote for the mainland.

French immigration could still be done in the UK, to avoid alterations to continental stations.

However this is not a complete solution. We also have to deal with security (i.e. bag scanning). This is still a serious problem because it requires the area beyond the control point to be secure - i.e. not accessible without going through the control point, even by, for example, crossing the tracks. If it was only "part time secure", which is likely, it would need a security sweep to check for items left in bins, etc, which could be picked up by a passenger boarding the train.

So, I still fear that detraining at Lille or Brussels is the most likely.

 

[radamfi]

Yes, on balance I also think the best solution is to have the UK border controls at St Pancras (and Ebbsfleet and Ashford). Probably rules out through international trains ever running beyond London which is a pity - but if we have to choose between serving more mainland destinations or more British cities, I vote for the mainland.

French immigration could still be done in the UK, to avoid alterations to continental stations.

However this is not a complete solution. We also have to deal with security (i.e. bag scanning). This is still a serious problem because it requires the area beyond the control point to be secure - i.e. not accessible without going through the control point, even by, for example, crossing the tracks. If it was only "part time secure", which is likely, it would need a security sweep to check for items left in bins, etc, which could be picked up by a passenger boarding the train.

So, I still fear that detraining at Lille or Brussels is the most likely.

No, no, no, not acceptable!

Baggage scanning is totally unnecessary!

I will only accept passport controls on the train. Otherwise, forget about Eurostar and concentrate resources on better train services on the mainland.

 

[Techniquest]

I will only accept passport controls on the train. Otherwise, forget about Eurostar and concentrate resources on better train services on the mainland.

Passport controls on the train worked just fine when I had them in 2006. I'm with you on this one, this farce will only end in failure for the new services. Through trains from elsewhere in the UK to Brussels and Paris would be better.

 

[anme]

Passport controls on the train worked just fine when I had them in 2006. I'm with you on this one, this farce will only end in failure for the new services. Through trains from elsewhere in the UK to Brussels and Paris would be better.

I would prefer passport control on the train as well, but unfortunately that seems to be off the table at the moment. Or better still, for the UK to join Schengen, which is even more unlikely.

BTW, last time I took the Eurostar, my passport was checked three times - in Brussels, on the train and at St Pancras.

 

[radamfi]

Couldn't the international part of St Pancas be designated "airside" so that anyone who is detected by passport checks on arrival could be returned to their origin without officially having entered the UK?

During the Lille Loophole saga, we learned that UKBA didn't even consider having passport checks at the UK stations as acceptable because of the possibility of someone pulling the emergency alarm in Kent and getting off the train while the train was stationary. Yes, they are that paranoid.

 

[brianthegiant]

I've written to the transport select committee, suggesting that they conduct an enquiry into barriers to international rail services, and the reasons why this needs looking at (along the lines discussed in this and other related threads).
Not holding my breath though.

 

[anme]

During the Lille Loophole saga, we learned that UKBA didn't even consider having passport checks at the UK stations as acceptable because of the possibility of someone pulling the emergency alarm in Kent and getting off the train while the train was stationary. Yes, they are that paranoid.

Then it looks like a hopeless case - passport checks on the continent or no service at all.

One completely off topic question - how does UK immigration deal with cross channel swimmers? If you're not allowed in, do they make you swim back? Just wait until the Daily Mail hear about the "sham swimmers' scam" (Tabloid editors - don't even think of stealing that. I will sue).

 

[motorman]

This is tongue in cheek, but with all the passport hassle is it really worth the hassle of getting back into this third world republic

 

[anme]

This is tongue in cheek, but with all the passport hassle is it really worth the hassle of getting back into this third world republic

Third world maybe, republic no. Well, not yet anyway.

 

[jon0844]

During the Lille Loophole saga, we learned that UKBA didn't even consider having passport checks at the UK stations as acceptable because of the possibility of someone pulling the emergency alarm in Kent and getting off the train while the train was stationary. Yes, they are that paranoid.

Didn't that happen for real, or at least attempted?

Of course, it may well have been staged or just made up to support the argument!

 

[johnnychips]

If someone pulls the alarm, do the doors unlock? Or are there exitable windows?

 

[HSTEd]

If someone pulls the alarm, do the doors unlock? Or are there exitable windows?

Yes, unless you like the idea of locking passengers inside a burning vehicle.

The incident in question was an Albanian man who was being ejected via Eurostar, pulled the emergency stop and dragged the door open and then jumped out.... while the trainset was still doing 120mph.....

Apparently trains don't go very fast in Albania or something.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Couldn't the international part of St Pancas be designated "airside" so that anyone who is detected by passport checks on arrival could be returned to their origin without officially having entered the UK?

Shouldn't be difficult as it's already covered by security rules that are more or less identical to "airside" rules.

Very tempting to call it "railside" though!