Eurostars back on the ECML?

[matt]

In the latest issue of the Railway Magazine there is a small article about some Eurostars returning to the East Coast. Anyone know anymore about it?

 

[Nym]

IIRC the NoLs are coming off lease from SCNF soon...

 

[Adamw5433]

I'd like to see Eurostars back on ECML.
However i don't think, they'll suite the EC livery as well as the GNER livery.
I'd also like to see, them go beyond Leeds / York.
Maybe as far as Newcastle, or even the full hog to Edinburgh.
Not sure if there would be a platform space / length issue though.

Adam

 

[90019]

I'd like to see Eurostars back on ECML.
However i don't think, they'll suite the EC livery as well as the GNER livery.
I'd also like to see, them go beyond Leeds / York.
Maybe as far as Newcastle, or even the full hog to Edinburgh.
Not sure if there would be a platform space / length issue though.

Adam

If they came to Edinburgh they'd just probably just use two platforms at Waverley, either 1 and 20, 2 and 19, or 7 and 11.
Same thing they do for longer railtours that won't fit in a single one.

 

[Anvil1984]

IIRC there were also gauging problems in the Newcastle area on one of the bridges, also I think they are limited to 110 mph over the ECML> That may be rubbish though

 

[TGV]

There are gauging issues at Newcastle on the curves at the bridge as you head South out of the station. They are cleared to do 125 on many stretches particlarly South of Grantham. The "373" markers are still present at the stations it used to stop at.

 

[trainrider1985]

Would to love to see them return to The East coast main line wasn't one of the trains called The White Rose

 

[gordonthemoron]

I thought all the E* services between York/Leeds and KGX were called the White Rose

 

[Nym]

Well, if they got them off lease from SCNF it would allow us to displace some HSTs...

If the're cleared for the WCML anyone wanna see them on Euston - Birmingham runs?

 

[Rhydgaled]

I'd hope the NOL sets are put to use on somthing approaching what they were built for when they come off lease. While the Manchester and Edingbourgh services are a bit on the legnthy side, Birmingham - Brussels (with stops at Rugby, Stratford International and Lille) would now be under the magic 4 hours. Although it would require a change at Stratford, the extra length of these sets versus a 9-car Pendo could help capacity a little on Birmingham - London.

Bristol - Brussels would be a possiblity too (going via Parkway rather than Bath and calling at Reading, Stratford International and Lille) if DaFT get their act together and electrify the GWML.

 

[gordonthemoron]

surely the NOL sets are too short for the Channel Tunnel?

 

[driver9000]

As I recall the Regional Eurostars were cleared for Euston to Manchester Piccadilly in preparation for the international services and were intended to be looked after in the international depot opposite Longsight. I'm not sure if they were ever cleared for Birmingham or the northern end of the WCML, I certainly don't recall ever seeing one in the north west.

The GNER 373 services were branded 'The White Rose' I don't think any sets actually carried the name though. They were restricted to 110mph in operation due to power consumption of the trains.

The NoL sets are 320 metres long and are 4 coaches shorter than a full length 373 (394m), going on the recent problems DB ran into trying to run 200m ICE trains through the tunnel the NoL sets are now too short to run through the tunnel which requires a minimum of 375m. I can only presume the minimum length has changed since the trains were built possibly as a result of an incident in the tunnel at some point.

 

[captainbigun]

The 373s operated in classic mode, i.e. reduced power rating. This didn't stop them running at 125mph eventually after some initial software changes were made (signalling compatibility) and some alterations were made to the OHL. As mentioned by TGV, 125mph was permitted south of Stoke Tunnel.

They would require quite a lot of mods to allow them back on NR's infrastructure and given the requirement for 125mph capable stock I suspect their utilisation would cause pathing issues north of Stoke Tunnel. There's the issue of gauging at Newcastle due to the radius of the curve on King Edward VII bridge. There's a potential kinematic envelope issue due to the articulation.

Add to this the weak power supply south of Stevenage there would be restrictions introducing any additional electrically powered services in the peaks.

 

[starrymarkb]

IIRC nothing else was allowed to move when a 373 was departing kings cross because of the power draw

 

[sprinterguy]

As I recall the Regional Eurostars were cleared for Euston to Manchester Piccadilly in preparation for the international services and were intended to be looked after in the international depot opposite Longsight. I'm not sure if they were ever cleared for Birmingham or the northern end of the WCML, I certainly don't recall ever seeing one in the north west.

The GNER 373 services were branded 'The White Rose' I don't think any sets actually carried the name though. They were restricted to 110mph in operation due to power consumption of the trains.

One NoL Eurostar made it to Glasgow Central in 1996/7 to undergo gauge testing, though I think it was dragged up the WCML to Polmadie rather than making it under its’ own power.

You are correct in saying that all the Eurostar sets that gained GNER blue vinyls were branded “The White Rose”, and this is what the service was named, but Powercars 3303 and 3304 were also named “The White Rose” in GNER standard stick-on name style carried on a small plate on the power cars.

 

[DarloRich]

Were they cleared noth of York - I can only recall seeing them at York or Leeds.

 

[Nym]

Reason for mentioning Birmingham on the WCML is that they won't be able to keep to an EPS path in the Trent Valley, but if a 90 can keep to timings on a brummieland run then a 373 should be able to. Or put them on the SWML? Would it fir 14 carrages to Southampton?

Anyone else trying to imagine a 373 in Virgin Trains Livery now?

 

[gordonthemoron]

presumably they could be used for the KGX-Newark/York services?

 

[Adamw5433]

One NoL Eurostar made it to Glasgow Central in 1996/7 to undergo gauge testing, though I think it was dragged up the WCML to Polmadie rather than making it under its’ own power.

Aye, i remmeber a NoL set being dragged through Darlington Bank Top, by x2 class 37s lead by 37603 (I think).
Complete with styrofoam attachments to the front and sides of the set, if any styrofoam was damaged it would ofcourse indicate a gauging problem.

Can't say i know enough about the gauging trip, to have been aware of the problem at Newcastle.

Adam

 

[DarloRich]

I had heard/assumed thast they werent gauged cleared north of York for some reason. I wonder if they are cleared but werent used for some ops reason

 

[tbtc]

presumably they could be used for the KGX-Newark/York services?

They could be perfect for it (if there's room for one to wait in Newark Northgate)

 

[TGV]

Nothing is confirmed for this plan. *IF* they were reinstated it would likely be on their old Leeds route.

They are in good working order with SNCF with the exception of 3307/8.

The power supply issues round London were resolved in their later years of GNER service and I can't imagine that work was undone.

 

[philjo]

I believe the power supply in the London area has been upgraded again more recently, since the 373s stopped running for GNER.
I think this work was a requirement before FCC could introduce the 12-car peak hour KX-Cambridge services that started running last year (as well as works on Hitchin-Cambridge section)

 

[jon0844]

Wasn't the ECML and the line up to Cambridge and beyond updated as part of the capacity increases started out with FCC way back in 2006?

Obviously the upgrades weren't all done then, but that's when the work began to boost the power for more services.

 

[TGV]

12 car FCC trains also run to PBO.

 

[jon0844]

I counted PBO as part of the ECML upgrades.

 

[TGV]

I was referring to an earlier post that only mentioned Cambridge having 12car FCC services - the "quote" function doesn't work on my phone for some reason.

 

[Nym]

Would be nice to see the NoL sets running on East Coast, possibly VT brum services aswell. can't remember how many diagrams on each, erm, Birmingham I'm gonna make a rough guess at 3tph, just under 1:30 journey time, 9 or 10 diagrams for the Brum VT runs, or 4 or 5 under wire HST runs for EC IIRC.

*checks how many NoL sets there are* 14 half sets... with one out of service that leaves 6 full sets. Anyone wanna let VT and EC fight for them? EC proberbly has more chance of getting them. Still VT should be allowed to order more pendos. Some more 11 cars for flexability in the core fleet and some 8 car 'reigonal pendilinos'

 

[sprinterguy]

It strikes me as odd that it is rumoured that East Coast may take back some NoL Eurostar sets when EC have already cut back the Eureka timetable in order to forego expansion of its’ fleet with five 180s, so that money can be saved by making more extensive use of the existing train fleet.

However, I’d say that hiring in a couple of Eurostars would be a good idea in order to free up other trains for the new London-Newark and York services and reduce the number of HSTs running under the wires for a large proportion of their diagrams (I don’t think that the NoL Eurostar sets would be suitable for the more frequent stop Newark and York services themselves: Better to put them onto fast Leeds diagrams).

 

[Nym]

Would it make sense to have them maintained at the E* Depot in stratford and on operating lease to VT, EC and/or NXEA as required for spesific diagrams, but the capacity where it's needed..?

Similar to 'wet lease' or 'damp lease' for airlines...