Euston overcrowding

[Sunil_P]

Today, caught the 1114 GWR service from Euston to Swansea (engineering work between Acton and Paddington), it was already shown as "Boarding" at 1034 when I got to the concourse!

 

[Dr Hoo]

I've been lightly following the problems at Euston and seen various things on X about dangerously crowded platforms. I gather new boarding policies are being introduced but they really ought to do something about the in-adequate departure boards in the main concourse. They replaced large ones that everyone could see with a giant advertising screen and huddled the passenger information to a small screen, meaning everyone has to crowd in a small space to see their platform (and also adds to the scramble to get on the train). Network Rail Euston seem to be very anti-passenger.

Surely there used to be only one ‘large one’? (I know that it was only monochrome and with my varifocals actually found it hard to read unless standing ‘in line’ with ‘my’ train and at a particular distance, invariably occupied by someone else and constantly ‘traversing left’ anyway.)

Now there are three ‘large screens’ inside, that I find much easier to read and understand, plus four more outside.
The old large screen was between two distracting illuminated advertising screens going back to the original 1968 station.

 

[jackdoyle]

Network Rail have announced that the former advertising board will now be used to show departure information.
https://www.networkrailmediacentre....s-its-turned-back-on-after-passenger-feedback

Network Rail will switch its screen back on as part of a trial to provide clearer and more visible travel updates for passengers.

As part of Network Rail’s five-point plan to improve the passenger experience at London Euston, rail engineers will begin tests on Wednesday evening (11 December) to display live travel information on the large screen where the station’s departure boards used to be.

The former advertisement board will give passengers live updates about their train services.

The improvements are being made in response to feedback from passengers wanting to see a return of a large focal point on the concourse for travel information.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The mock-up looks good and is what should have been done in the first place. (How do I know it's a mock up? Well, platform 8 isn't by the bogs, that arrow wants changing to point down, also the clock time bears no resemblance to the departure times )

Now get rid of (turn off for now) the transverse boards, the fact they are visible from the tunnel causes people to stand there and block it.

No issue with ads at the sides in TV screen format, there were for years and nobody was ever bothered by that.

 

[BAFRA77]

So - correct me if I'm wrong - as memory of using Euston occasionally in the last few years - they spent all that money to put in those on-concourse transverse displays to just go back to the old way of doing things?

Cost Benefit Analysis failure anyone?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So - correct me if I'm wrong - as memory of using Euston occasionally in the last few years - they spent all that money to put in those on-concourse transverse displays to just go back to the old way of doing things?

Cost Benefit Analysis failure anyone?

Well, quite. They're useful outside, though, so maybe they could just keep the two from the concourse for spare parts, as no doubt the weather will take its toll on them over time.

I also hear, by the way, that similar to the way the Boots was removed on the other side the WHS bookshop and possibly (I forget) the HEMA store on the toilets side is being removed to create a more open walk through towards 1-3 and the toilets. This should also be a significant improvement as that corner is a big bottleneck.

 

[modernrail]

Well, quite. They're useful outside, though, so maybe they could just keep the two from the concourse for spare parts, as no doubt the weather will take its toll on them over time.

I also hear, by the way, that similar to the way the Boots was removed on the other side the WHS bookshop and possibly (I forget) the HEMA store on the toilets side is being removed to create a more open walk through towards 1-3 and the toilets. This should also be a significant improvement as that corner is a big bottleneck.

Good, but no doubt expensive compensation to the shop as it hasn’t been there long.

Euston planning does not feel like the greatest exercise in spending tax payers money well.

 

[Howardh]

The mock-up looks good and is what should have been done in the first place. (How do I know it's a mock up? Well, platform 8 isn't by the bogs, that arrow wants changing to point down, also the clock time bears no resemblance to the departure times )

Now get rid of (turn off for now) the transverse boards, the fact they are visible from the tunnel causes people to stand there and block it.

No issue with ads at the sides in TV screen format, there were for years and nobody was ever bothered by that.

So glad the big screen will revert to proper train information; I agree about getting rid of the smaller transverse ones making more space. However I read on TwiX that people with sight issues can read the smaller ones better, so maybe remove and replace somewhere near assisted travel areas?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So glad the big screen will revert to proper train information; I agree about getting rid of the smaller transverse ones making more space. However I read on TwiX that people with sight issues can read the smaller ones better, so maybe remove and replace somewhere near assisted travel areas?

There's an assisted travel lounge which I think has dedicated TV style screens.

I'm surprised people can read the transverse ones better - personally I find they're too low a resolution and too bright for how close you stand to them and I find them much harder to read than the old orange LED one or the low level orange LED ones at Paddington. Indeed I find white LEDs far harder to read than orange ones generally - it's interesting that others find the opposite.

 

[Howardh]

There's an assisted travel lounge which I think has dedicated TV style screens.

I'm surprised people can read the transverse ones better - personally I find they're too low a resolution and too bright for how close you stand to them and I find them much harder to read than the old orange LED one or the low level orange LED ones at Paddington. Indeed I find white LEDs far harder to read than orange ones generally - it's interesting that others find the opposite.

If people do then, as you say, they could be directed over to the assisted area screens.

 

[modernrail]

The mock-up looks good and is what should have been done in the first place. (How do I know it's a mock up? Well, platform 8 isn't by the bogs, that arrow wants changing to point down, also the clock time bears no resemblance to the departure times )

Now get rid of (turn off for now) the transverse boards, the fact they are visible from the tunnel causes people to stand there and block it.

No issue with ads at the sides in TV screen format, there were for years and nobody was ever bothered by that.

The arrivals board is also interesting. I would have thought it would have taken the presumably well paid consultants more effort to get that wrong than right bearing in mind the rest is broadly right. The mind boggles.

Good to see they have included some cancellations though. Swings it back towards realistic.

 

[Russel]

So - correct me if I'm wrong - as memory of using Euston occasionally in the last few years - they spent all that money to put in those on-concourse transverse displays to just go back to the old way of doing things?

Cost Benefit Analysis failure anyone?

It's infuriating, the DFT won't let XC take the remaining off least Voyagers leading to chronic over-crowding, presumably due to cost saving, yet we then see stunts like this being pulled...

It happens over and over again, passengers suffer because of cost saving measures, just so money can be wasted one something else..

 

[oversteer]

I just want to see departures as I walk into the station. Why was this so difficult for them to grasp?

 

[Bald Rick]

I just want to see departures as I walk into the station. Why was this so difficult for them to grasp?

Because everyone would do that, and it blocks the concourse and entrances there.

Sometimes, stations have to be designed to enable best use of the space available, not necessarily to mKe everyones journey as easy as possible. See Victoria underground.

 

[MikeFromLFE]

There's an assisted travel lounge which I think has dedicated TV style screens.

Although it's some months since we needed to use the Assistance at Euston - when we did the screens were turned off in the assistance lounge. The assistance staff were doing their best but the information they were getting over the radios wasn't - as far as we could tell - much more use than what was coming up on the departure boards.

 

[modernrail]

Because everyone would do that, and it blocks the concourse and entrances there.

Sometimes, stations have to be designed to enable best use of the space available, not necessarily to mKe everyones journey as easy as possible. See Victoria underground.

Never mind that you often could not physically push your way into a position where you can see the departure boards because of the number of people rammed into that small area at busy times!

It just did not work as a design solution.

 

[Bald Rick]

Never mind that you often could not physically push your way into a position where you can see the departure boards because of the number of people rammed into that small area at busy times!

“Often” is doing a lot of work there. I’ve used Euston once or twice a week on average for over 30 years, all times of day and week, and the number of times I’ve seen the concourse in that state can be counted on the fingers of one hand. I’m nit saying it doesn‘t happen, but “often” is an exaggeration.

 

[modernrail]

“Often” is doing a lot of work there. I’ve used Euston once or twice a week on average for over 30 years, all times of day and week, and the number of times I’ve seen the concourse in that state can be counted on the fingers of one hand. I’m nit saying it doesn‘t happen, but “often” is an exaggeration.

I have found it pretty difficult a lot more since the new screens came in. I am an able bodied lad. You often have to navigate around people, luggage etc and, critically, then find your way back out again. That also adds time and that can be stressful knowing a combination of late announcing and early closing of the ramps means every second can count at this station more than most.

I am not saying you didn’t have to do this before to some extent but you were at least walking in the right direction to get to platforms and there was more space where you could see the boards.

There is another I think critical downside to the current boards. People need to stand back to look up to see them. This leaves a fairly big area that is not used. That area doesn’t really become a good circulation area because it has some big pillars in it, the ones holding the boards up. That means you have just lost a load of incredibly valuable space. You have also pushed a load of people further out to the sides. In the previous arrangement that space was very much full of people. I have attached a photo showing the problem.

Let’s see how things go with the boards up top.

I have often wondered if they should trial a standing free zone at either side of the concourse. Not sure how you would mark/encourage though.

 

[danchester]

There is another I think critical downside to the current boards. People need to stand back to look up to see them. This leaves a fairly big area that is not used. That area doesn’t really become a good circulation area because it has some big pillars in it, the ones holding the boards up. That means you have just lost a load of incredibly valuable space. You have also pushed a load of people further out to the sides. In the previous arrangement that space was very much full of people. I have attached a photo showing the problem.

Which, of course, was supposed to be the point - the gaps were supposed to allow easier passenger flow through the station, rather than everyone spreading out in front on one big board blocking access to the platforms.

What it seems they failed to consider was that most passengers traversing the concourse want to go down the sides, not the middle. The entrances to the station are in either corner, and most of the long distance platforms are in the other corners. Crowds pouring out those platforms want to take the quickest route to the exit which is down the side, they don't know there's empty space in the middle under the boards. So instead they're just going head first into the gathered crowd and the clever flow calculations seem to have completely backfired.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Putting the boards on the side walls of the concourse as opposed to being on stilts in the middle probably would have been better at creating spaces of flow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Putting the boards on the side walls of the concourse as opposed to being on stilts in the middle probably would have been better at creating spaces of flow.

Just leaving it where it was and addressing the actual problems (i.e. late boarding and suppression of local service platforms) would have dealt with the issues just fine.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Just leaving it where it was and addressing the actual problems (i.e. late boarding and suppression of local service platforms) would have dealt with the issues just fine.

I don't dispute that, I was merely saying (like almost every other idea) it would have been better than what was installed.

 

[modernrail]

Just leaving it where it was and addressing the actual problems (i.e. late boarding and suppression of local service platforms) would have dealt with the issues just fine.

Exactly.

One thing I have noticed, having now boarded quite a few services 15-20 before departure, is that the train is almost fully boarded almost immediately. There seem to be very few passengers boarding beyond say 10 minutes before departure. So, anecdotally, it looks like passengers turn up within plenty of time for their train at Euston.

It makes you think the whole 2 minute thing is another massive diversion. With a properly announced train at Euston there is probably no problem at all with allowing the back door to stay open until just before departure for those that have been caught short by circumstances on the way to the station.

 

[dosxuk]

Just leaving it where it was and addressing the actual problems (i.e. late boarding and suppression of local service platforms) would have dealt with the issues just fine.

It wouldn't have dealt with the issue of the wall of people staring at the boards facing off with people trying to leave the platforms.

I know it's not what people here believe or want to hear, but the data shows that the concourse is less crowded and more navigable with the new screen layout.

 

[John R]

It wouldn't have dealt with the issue of the wall of people staring at the boards facing off with people trying to leave the platforms.

I know it's not what people here believe or want to hear, but the data shows that the concourse is less crowded and more navigable with the new screen layout.

It does if fewer people are staring at the wall because they are already sitting comfortably on their train, or know it’s still 20 mins before departure so don’t need to watch it like a hawk as the last few minutes count down before departure.

Exactly.

One thing I have noticed, having now boarded quite a few services 15-20 before departure, is that the train is almost fully boarded almost immediately. There seem to be very few passengers boarding beyond say 10 minutes before departure. So, anecdotally, it looks like passengers turn up within plenty of time for their train at Euston.

Which is hardly surprising given the use of advance tickets and the jeopardy of missing your train and being charged for a completely new ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It wouldn't have dealt with the issue of the wall of people staring at the boards facing off with people trying to leave the platforms.

They aren't in the way. The station's exits are in the corners. Therefore the way to leave is to go along the tunnel (which didn't used to be blocked because you couldn't see a board from it) and leave via the sides straight to the exits. The sides used to be kept clear, and they'd be even clearer if hatching and signage was added and the obstructions were removed from the middle.

I know it's not what people here believe or want to hear, but the data shows that the concourse is less crowded and more navigable with the new screen layout.

The basis of the data is wrong, because as a regular user of the station it absolutely is not. It is far, far, far worse than it ever was. The crowd may be of lower density, but it is much more in the way.

Statistics with a bad basis don't override the lived experience of users of the station. If they'd asked us with unbiased questions, we'd have told them. From the first time I saw these boards I knew they would not work, and they didn't. They were solving the wrong problem.

 

[Dr Hoo]

They aren't in the way. The station's exits are in the corners. Therefore the way to leave is to go along the tunnel (which didn't used to be blocked because you couldn't see a board from it) and leave via the sides straight to the exits.

Despite having been a user of Euston for over 50 years I have no idea what you mean by ‘the tunnel’. Do you mean the direct link from the central suburban platforms to the Underground? This is almost irrelevant to long distance/ Avanti passengers.

Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

Despite having been a user of Euston for over 50 years I have no idea what you mean by ‘the tunnel’. Do you mean the direct link from the central suburban platforms to the Underground? This is almost irrelevant to long distance/ Avanti passengers.

I mean the area that runs across the top of the platforms with access to each set, where e.g. Burger King is.

 

[jackdoyle]

Therefore the way to leave is to go along the tunnel (which didn't used to be blocked because you couldn't see a board from it) and leave via the sides straight to the exits.

Absolutely, this is one of the biggest issues with the changes I have noticed. Because people can see the boards from that passageway they would obviously stand there as it is closer to their platform. As a result its very difficult to get past people along the passageway to the toilets for example.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Absolutely, this is one of the biggest issues with the changes I have noticed. Because people can see the boards from that passageway they would obviously stand there as it is closer to their platform. As a result its very difficult to get past people along the passageway to the toilets for example.

The ‘tunnel’/ passageway is well to the side of the transverse boards and certainly not an easy view for anyone wearing glasses.

It is certainly true that many people ‘wait’ in the area so as to be close to the platform entrances but from my experience they are all looking at/refreshing their phone screens rather than rubber-necking to the boards.

One of the really big gains from the transverse boards is that they are angled down to give a relatively 90-degree viewing angle to anyone looking up. Is there any expectation that the ‘new’ board will be angled/ tilted down to replicate this excellent feature?