Ever not been able to get off when you want to (overcrowding)

[Beveridges]

I've seen quite a number of full & standing Blackpool & Colne trains at Preston in the past year, ironically many were 142 operated! I think its not uncommon to find 142s on some Liverpool - Blackpool diagrams and even Manchester - Blackpool ...

Northern are usually short of 15x's nearly all the time hence all the Busstitutions.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The 18.08 London Bridge to Uckfield train should be 8 carriages long, and even so it is always packed and all the vestibules are full of people standing as are the gangways. Many people get off at East Croydon although it remains standing room only often as far as Edenbridge.

The outcome of course is that if it shortformed many of those wishing to go to stations beyond East Croydon cannot get on. So at London Bridge there will often be announcements on these occasions that the train will not stop at East Croydon. However it doesn't stop East Croydon passengers getting on and invariably the train does stop at East Croydon so they are fine. However those standing between them and the doors know announcements were made at London Bridge stating that the train would not be stopping at East Croydon so often don't assist them by moving out the way. So fairly regularly people end up going to Oxted as they can't get off at East Croydon when it is short formed.

On the same train it stops at Edenbridge, Cowden, and Eridge all of which can only take 5 coach trains. As mentioned the train is 8 coaches long, so if people are in the last carriage it can take people too long to get through to the 5th coach. Its even worse at Eridge because people wanting to get off at Crowborough start standing in the vestibules of the 6th coach as the train leaves Edenbridge, so by Eridge they are full. Those getting off at Erdige assume they are all getting off at Eridge, and by the time they realise its too late for them to get down to the 5th coach.

We probably have passengers who miss their station two or three times a week!

 

[sheff1]

However one Sunday afternoon, she, with another woman, found the way blocked by a push chair in the vestibule and by the time got it sorted the doors closed.

In such circumstances, depositing the pushchair (or luggage) on the platform has always worked for me

 

[yorksrob]

can't say as I've ever been in this position. Oversleeping - yes, several times, but overcrowding, no.

 

[NI 271]

can't say as I've ever been in this position. Oversleeping - yes, several times, but overcrowding, no.

Amen. Difficult to say this without sounding embarrassingly "I'm hard, me", but even so, I'll say it anyway. Nothing is keeping me on a train beyond my desired stop other than me being asleep*. Nothing. If you're blocking my way off, there's more chance of you being on the platform when the train leaves than there is of me being aboard.

* Which does happen on occasion...

 

[Qwerty133]

In answer to the original question, yes twice both times on the 17:16 from leicester (as was).
Once due to a RPI trying to check tickets as passengers were leaving the train and the guard locking the doors way too soon and once due to the guard giving approximately 5 seconds for everyone to alight at a station where half the train leaves. On both occasions is pressed the emergency stop, and we we're let off the train.
More worryingly XC have a stock reply for complaints about people being unable to leave the train...

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Call me a cynic but I wonder if anyone on the fiddle might deliberately catch a crowded train and spin the "it was so overcrowded I couldn't get off" line to the conductor in order to travel to a stop beyond they're entitled to?

 

[greatkingrat]

Call me a cynic but I wonder if anyone on the fiddle might deliberately catch a crowded train and spin the "it was so overcrowded I couldn't get off" line to the conductor in order to travel to a stop beyond they're entitled to?

If the train was that crowded then presumably there wouldn't be any ticket checks anyway.

 

[noddingdonkey]

can't say as I've ever been in this position. Oversleeping - yes, several times, but overcrowding, no.

Wonder how many people have missed their station because they were unable to wake the sleeping person in the seat next to them and couldn't get out?

 

[Bevan Price]

Perhaps training for top jobs at DfT should include (at least) one month's compulsory rail travel at peak hours, at different locations, so that they get a better grasp of what "there are too few trains / coaches" actually means.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Perhaps training for top jobs at DfT should include (at least) one month's compulsory rail travel at peak hours, at different locations, so that they get a better grasp of what "there are too few trains / coaches" actually means.

Perhaps they should all have to commute on the train at all times
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It wasn't exactly due to overcrowding but I remember a few years back when I was unable to get my bike off at Kettering due to the HST set stopping in such a way that the last coach and rear power car were not adjacent to the platform. With the train manager nowhere in sight and the platform staff several carriages away, I had a stark choice of getting off and leaving the bike behind or staying on and getting off at the next stop. As I was quite fond of my bike I chose the latter option!

Unfortunately I'd assumed that the next stop would be Wellingborough, but this train went straight through, with me eventually getting off at Bedford. As my intention had been to cycle to Rushden & Diamonds to see my football team, you can imagine what an inconvenience this was!

Please tell me it was an away fixture!

 

[trainophile]

Wonder how many people have missed their station because they were unable to wake the sleeping person in the seat next to them and couldn't get out?

One more reason why I prefer an aisle seat.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

In response to the original question no, but...

I have panicked when getting stuck behind people, also getting off, who are still faffing about collecting their luggage when the guard starts the door closure procedure. As I didn't fancy the round trip from Penrith to Carlisle and back some rudeness may have been deployed.

Also

Have been stuck behind people who, having leapt from their seats when the guard announced the next station, then stand waiting for the doors to automatically open. 'Is anyone in front getting off' or 'you need to press the open button' usually does the trick but you are rude for pointing out their mistake!

These situations can occur even when a train is quiet. It only takes one small group / family in front to completely block access to the exit door.

 

[Beveridges]

If the train was that crowded then presumably there wouldn't be any ticket checks anyway.

Thats why we have Gateline staff.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Have been stuck behind people who, having leapt from their seats when the guard announced the next station, then stand waiting for the doors to automatically open. 'Is anyone in front getting off' or 'you need to press the open button' usually does the trick but you are rude for pointing out their mistake!

These situations can occur even when a train is quiet. It only takes one small group / family in front to completely block access to the exit door.

Happened a fair few times to me that, too. It's particular prevalent on Northern 142 units where at certain doors the "open and close" buttons are actually facing away from the door, so the inexperienced traveller just stands there not knowing what to do next!

 

[Chapeltom]

I've often had to stand behind 3-4 people waiting to get off a 142 who just stand there and think the doors will magically open themselves. So me realising if I didn't push in and press the button myself I'd not get off I've had to do just that. Cue a couple of tutting passengers morons.

 

[island]

I had to shout and shove my way through the train. The despatcher was blowing his whistle while I was still stuck onboard. Then the hussle alarm sounded and the doors begin to shut. On a mad moment of desperation I pushed forwards and just about got my hand in the door. The bumper sensors on the door reacted and caused it to remain partially open, allowing me to squeeze my way off this terrible train.

I didn't know there were platform dispatchers at Salford Crescent. It's a small enough station.

On both occasions is pressed the emergency stop, and we we're let off the train.

I think that's a byelaw offence.

Have been stuck behind people who, having leapt from their seats when the guard announced the next station, then stand waiting for the doors to automatically open. 'Is anyone in front getting off' or 'you need to press the open button' usually does the trick but you are rude for pointing out their mistake!

The flip side of this is on Pendolinos where pressing the button works and causes the step to deploy itself, but it's 6-7 seconds before the door starts opening. I've had a couple of occasions myself where I've pressed the button and had someone behind me say "you need to press the button mate"! Other times people in front start bashing the button and once someone has even gone to find another door assuming the one they were at was broken.

 

[callumbb]

Perhaps training for top jobs at DfT should include (at least) one month's compulsory rail travel at peak hours, at different locations, so that they get a better grasp of what "there are too few trains / coaches" actually means.

I was under impression that most of the crowded routes were running at full capacity as opposed to them just not wanting to put another train in service?

I've often had to stand behind 3-4 people waiting to get off a 142 who just stand there and think the doors will magically open themselves. So me realising if I didn't push in and press the button myself I'd not get off I've had to do just that. Cue a couple of tutting passengers morons.

I'm not surprised they're tutting considering as far as they know, you're just pushing in for no reason. While virtually everyone I've ever followed off a train has been aware you need to press the button, the couple of times they haven't done so I've found it much easier to just tell them to press the button instead of barging past people!

 

[Paule23]

Wonder how many people have missed their station because they were unable to wake the sleeping person in the seat next to them and couldn't get out?

I used to work in the ambulance service dealing with role who liked to feign unconsciousness. There are a few techniques to illicit a response I guarantee would work on any sleeping passenger blocking my exit.

 

[sheff1]

I've often had to stand behind 3-4 people waiting to get off a 142 who just stand there and think the doors will magically open themselves. So me realising if I didn't push in and press the button myself I'd not get off I've had to do just that. Cue a couple of tutting passengers morons.

Of course, these are the buttons which say something like 'press to open when lit' but which, more often than not, don't actually light up. As there is no beeping noise, as on the newer trains, it is not surprising people are stood waiting - hardly morons.

I didn't know there were platform dispatchers at Salford Crescent. It's a small enough station.

Damn good job they are. The place would be even more chaotic than it already is without them. One of the most inadequate interchange stations anywhere - only slightly improved by the recent upgrade.

 

[drbdrb]

I think that's a byelaw offence.

So alerting the driver that customers may be in danger as they are still trying to get off the train and the train staff haven't noticed, is an offence?

 

[island]

"In danger"? No, they aren't in danger, they're potentially at risk of being overcarried that's all.

It would come down to whether it was considered reasonable in line with byelaw 11 (3) to press the emergency alarm.

 

[drbdrb]

"In danger"? No, they aren't in danger, they're potentially at risk of being overcarried that's all.

Of course there is a danger.

Do you seriously think that someone struggling to get off the train is not liable to suffer injury or death if the train sets off and they or their clothing are caught.

 

[Chapeltom]

I was under impression that most of the crowded routes were running at full capacity as opposed to them just not wanting to put another train in service?



I'm not surprised they're tutting considering as far as they know, you're just pushing in for no reason. While virtually everyone I've ever followed off a train has been aware you need to press the button, the couple of times they haven't done so I've found it much easier to just tell them to press the button instead of barging past people!

Well don't go and stand at the doors first if you don't know how to get off the train then! It happens all the time the time on the Hope Valley Line, particularly on arrival in Sheffield. People just stand there. I don't barge past anyone, I press the button for them and move in front, I can walk far quicker than the average person and do not like being held up.
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Of course, these are the buttons which say something like 'press to open when lit' but which, more often than not, don't actually light up. As there is no beeping noise, as on the newer trains, it is not surprising people are stood waiting - hardly morons.




Damn good job they are. The place would be even more chaotic than it already is without them. One of the most inadequate interchange stations anywhere - only slightly improved by the recent upgrade.

The buttons are quite clear, people just stand and look at them. The guard often hasn't even got to the back to open the doors and some people press it once and give in. Any regular passenger knows if you hold your finger on the button it will open. It is not rocket science. Often before arriving into Sheffield from Chinley I'll get up myself and head to the front of the 142, so I can ensure I can get off without any issues, anyone dallying about.

 

[TUC]

Well don't go and stand at the doors first if you don't know how to get off the train then! It happens all the time the time on the Hope Valley Line, particularly on arrival in Sheffield. People just stand there. I don't barge past anyone, I press the button for them and move in front, I can walk far quicker than the average person and do not like being held up.
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The buttons are quite clear, people just stand and look at them. The guard often hasn't even got to the back to open the doors and some people press it once and give in. Any regular passenger knows if you hold your finger on the button it will open. It is not rocket science. Often before arriving into Sheffield from Chinley I'll get up myself and head to the front of the 142, so I can ensure I can get off without any issues, anyone dallying about.

So let me get this straight. Even though the instructions simply advises passengers to press the button, you expect them to automatically know that they need to wait for the guard to release the doors, and they have the termerity to think that a door would open without having to press a button several times or to hold onto it. How very unreasonable of them to have such expectations.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

....on Pendolinos where pressing the button works and causes the step to deploy itself, but it's 6-7 seconds before the door starts opening. I've had a couple of occasions myself where I've pressed the button and had someone behind me say "you need to press the button mate"! Other times people in front start bashing the button and once someone has even gone to find another door assuming the one they were at was broken.

Of course, the little arrows close to the floor start flashing to show that the ramp is deploying, but few people realise this (and why would they?).
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Of course, these are the buttons which say something like 'press to open when lit' but which, more often than not, don't actually light up. As there is no beeping noise, as on the newer trains, it is not surprising people are stood waiting - hardly morons.

On the 142's I have used, these buttons face into the carriage rather than into the doorway where you are standing to get off. In addition, only a small area surrounding the button lights up and I have never been able to actually see whether it has lit up or not! Other, better, button designs are available!

 

[TUC]

On the 142's I have used, these buttons face into the carriage rather than into the doorway where you are standing to get off.

I've not been able to find the buttons myself sometimes for that very reason. Even allowing for when the trains were built, why did they think it right to face the buttons into the carriage rather than towards the doors ? It does not seem to make any sense.

 

[island]

I've not been able to find the buttons myself sometimes for that very reason. Even allowing for when the trains were built, why did they think it right to face the buttons into the carriage rather than towards the doors ? It does not seem to make any sense.

There is very little about Pacers that makes sense, in fairness.

 

[callumbb]

Well don't go and stand at the doors first if you don't know how to get off the train then! It happens all the time the time on the Hope Valley Line, particularly on arrival in Sheffield. People just stand there. I don't barge past anyone, I press the button for them and move in front, I can walk far quicker than the average person and do not like being held up.

That's assuming that they knew they didn't know how to open the door.

I don't like being held up either, but pushing in front of people (though if you could press the button and get off first without barging past anyone I don't see what the big deal was?) is obviously going to elicit a disgruntled response from people. It's quite simply rude.

When I'm stuck behind slow people I merely wait for them to get off then walk around them once on the platform. Yes it wastes 5 seconds of my time, but I can just about live with that...

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I've not been able to find the buttons myself sometimes for that very reason. Even allowing for when the trains were built, why did they think it right to face the buttons into the carriage rather than towards the doors ? It does not seem to make any sense.

Perhaps because, when built, they had bus style folding doors and no-one expected you to stand in the 'vestibule area', it being potentially dangerous - rather you would stand further into the carriage and be facing the front of the train - a bit like when getting off a bus - do not stand forward of this point. The trains were built for lightly used lines, with further decline in usage expected.
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There is very little about Pacers that makes sense, in fairness.

1) They kept the bus factory in Workington going for a bit longer.
2) They saved some services from further cutbacks / total withdrawal e.g. Cornish branches, Whitby and such like, until the railways turned the corner and started growing.
3) err....