Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[43096]

Ok, thanks. Knew 67s weren't, wasn't sure if 68s were as being newer and seems standard European multiple working system, which thought they may have?

They have a native multi working system (which they use for the Mark 5s) that uses WTB over the standard UIC jumpers. Not sure what flavour of WTB the 68/88/93s use - WTB-ÖBB is becoming the de facto standard as it is used on Siemens Viaggio (RailJet, NightJet etc) and Talgo (DB ICE-L, DSB stock).

 

[craigybagel]

At risk of speculation are 68s TDM fitted? If so then would be a relatively straight forward modification as that's how Mk4s worked with 91s?

Instead of making the locos compatible with the stock, the stock was made compatible with the locos. The ATW and Chiltern MKIII sets, and subsequently the TfW MKIV sets are all fitted with AAR to be compatible with 67s. The Chiltern 68s also have AAR but it's not standard across the rest of that fleet.

In addition, the TfW 67s have a different multi cable connection to a standard 67 that gives a greater amount of communication between the loco and the stock. Amongst other benefits this provides a working guard/driver buzzer system, reliable two way communication, and shows the driver in the loco the status of the door integrity system in the MKIVs - all of which were lacking in the MKIIIs.

So in short, any 68 would require a degree of modification to work with the TfW MKIVs - but the ones that never worked for Chiltern would require an extra degree of modification.

 

[Richard Scott]

They have a native multi working system (which they use for the Mark 5s) that uses WTB over the standard UIC jumpers. Not sure what flavour of WTB the 68/88/93s use - WTB-ÖBB is becoming the de facto standard as it is used on Siemens Viaggio (RailJet, NightJet etc) and Talgo (DB ICE-L, DSB stock).

Thanks for the info.

 

[anthony263]

I think we'll see tfw continue with the class 67s until they can see if the class 99s work these 99s I expect to see GWR consider too for replacement of the class 57 fleet

 

[59CosG95]

I think we'll see tfw continue with the class 67s until they can see if the class 99s work these 99s I expect to see GWR consider too for replacement of the class 57 fleet

That won't be for a while yet - we've yet to see a 93 run under its own power on the mainline, let alone a 99!

If TfW do end up going for the 99s, it'll probably be beyond the MkIVs' life expectancy; the same can doubtless be said for GWR's Night Riviera MkIIIs.
(All of this is neither here nor there, however, and merits a separate thread.)

 

[ajay1071]

With regards to the poor performance/failure rate of the class 67's,,are their any posters with detailed knowledge of what actually are the issues affecting their reliability, is there specific problems /issues affecting the fleet or is it just random recurrent defects.

 

[Jez]

When the MK4's are in service i find they often lose time. Yesterday the 197 that subbed for the MK4 that goes to Swansea in the evening was actually early at both Port Talbot and Neath and 5 minutes early into Swansea. It is not that often that a substitution provides a better service than the booked traction (in my opinion of course!)

 

[sd0733]

With regards to the poor performance/failure rate of the class 67's,,are their any posters with detailed knowledge of what actually are the issues affecting their reliability, is there specific problems /issues affecting the fleet or is it just random recurrent defects.

Most of The defects mean they aren't available to TfW so would only be known in those instances by DB.

The issues whilst on sets often are related to the HEP (head end power- electric supply to the coaches). There's also quite a lot of recurring faults in cabs such as Wiper/Washer faults, Front/Rear light issues, Cab seats being stuck in certain positions, DSD pedals being stiff/Stuck etc.
Complete power loss in service is relatively rare although it did happen at Nantwich a few weeks back.

 

[43096]

Most of The defects mean they aren't available to TfW so would only be known in those instances by DB.

The issues whilst on sets often are related to the HEP (head end power- electric supply to the coaches). There's also quite a lot of recurring faults in cabs such as Wiper/Washer faults, Front/Rear light issues, Cab seats being stuck in certain positions, DSD pedals being stiff/Stuck etc.

None of which are indicative of a flaw with the design and all of which are examples of items that a maintainer should get right.

 

[Newp410]

67007 has just arrived at Cardiff from Crewe with 67014 in tow, so expect 014 out tomorrow and 007 as standby loco

 

[sd0733]

None of which are indicative of a flaw with the design and all of which are examples of items that a maintainer should get riight.

Agreed. It's very frustrating doing multiple laps of the same circle with regards to improvements, we are where we are and sadly and even more frustratingly keep ending up back there too.

Theres some really good people throughout the project who'd love to see it all go to plan and succeed but unfortunately at some point the chain collapses a bit and throws everything out.

67007 has just arrived at Cardiff from Crewe with 67014 in tow, so expect 014 out tomorrow and 007 as standby loco

That should enable 67029+HD07 to re-enter service too with the addition of 67007 as 029 has been the standby.

67014 is planned to go onto HD04 overnight and go out with the 04:35 Cardiff-Manchester in the morning.

HD01 has arrived into Crewe for B exam and additional coach adding so hopefully this one makes it out as a 5 car.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

67014 is planned to go onto HD04 overnight and go out with the 04:35 Cardiff-Manchester in the morning.

Amazing! I found a first class advance on that to Pontypool for only £7, and it was cheaper than standard! It'll be nice to have a little luxury if only for half an hour

Edit: Now going to Shrewsbury on it as I’ve decided to go to the Midlands (via Telford) today with the help of some bargain advances. Wonderful TM, wonderful host. Thoroughly impressed with the customer service today.

 

[sd0733]

Amazing! I found a first class advance on that to Pontypool for only £7, and it was cheaper than standard! It'll be nice to have a little luxury if only for half an hour

Slight swap as now planned for 67029 with HD07 but still a Mk4. Hope it's a good trip.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Slight swap as now planned for HD07 but still a Mk4. Hope it's a good trip.

It’s a Grand Central set. Lovely ambience. Many thanks as always.

 

[ajay1071]

Most of The defects mean they aren't available to TfW so would only be known in those instances by DB.

The issues whilst on sets often are related to the HEP (head end power- electric supply to the coaches). There's also quite a lot of recurring faults in cabs such as Wiper/Washer faults, Front/Rear light issues, Cab seats being stuck in certain positions, DSD pedals being stiff/Stuck etc.
Complete power loss in service is relatively rare although it did happen at Nantwich a few weeks back.

Thanks for for you reply and assessment.

 

[Chester025]

That should enable 67029+HD07 to re-enter service too with the addition of 67007 as 029 has been the standby.

67014 is planned to go onto HD04 overnight and go out with the 04:35 Cardiff-Manchester in the morning.

HD01 has arrived into Crewe for B exam and additional coach adding so hopefully this one makes it out as a 5 car.

Thanks as always for your updates on this thread. Do you have any idea what is planned to be out tomorrow and Sunday? Thanks in advance.

 

[sd0733]

Thanks as always for your updates on this thread. Do you have any idea what is planned to be out tomorrow and Sunday? Thanks in advance.

As it stands the weekends workings are planned as, (liable to change between now and then but as of now is the plan)

Saturday- 2 diagrams

67022+HD02-
06:27 Manchester to Cardiff
10:52 Cardiff to Manchester
14:30 Manchester to Cardiff
18:55 Cardiff to Manchester

67008+HD06
04:35 Cardiff to Manchester
08:30 Manchester to Cardiff
12:52 Cardiff to Manchester
16:30 Manchester to Swansea

Sunday- 1 diagram
67022+HD02
08:30 Crewe to Manchester
09:30 Manchester to Swansea
14:55 Swansea to Manchester

 

[Chester025]

Thank you!

 

[JakeMurphy]

I’ve lost track of 67’s as of late.. anyone know which set is currently in Holyhead? I should be on 1V91 Monday morning.

 

[33017]

I’ve lost track of 67’s as of late.. anyone know which set is currently in Holyhead? I should be on 1V91 Monday morning.

67029/HD07

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

67029/HD07

Is it okay? Yesterday when I alighted at Shrewsbury after a rather nice couple hours in the (sadly rather hard, thanks GC) first class seats, the very friendly TM seemed to be having problems and it stood at the platform for about five/ten minutes while him and a bunch of men in orange tried to fix what looked like door issues, but then they were also playing with the black thing above the wheels too (bogie?)

 

[sd0733]

Is it okay?

No issues that made it into the delay logs. It made it to Holyhead pretty much on time last night so whatever it was had no lasting effects.

 

[JKF]

The question now is, what comes next? When the MKIVs were first introduced their reliability was also appalling but they're doing a lot better now, after a degree of time and effort was put in to fixing them. Hopefully the same can be done for the 67s - or an alternative can be found.

Still a few Class 37/4s out there! What would be required to make them compatible?

 

[NigelRail]

Any News on HD03?

 

[Jez]

It looks like the only MK4 sets from Manchester today are the 0830, 1430 and 1630 departures.

 

[sd0733]

Any News on HD03?

Still stuck at Crewe. HD01 should be the first 5 car sometime next week.

It looks like the only MK4 sets from Manchester today are the 0830, 1430 and 1630 departures.

Yes the 0627 and 1230 were units due to no sets on Crewe overnight.

HD01 and 03 are on exam/ 5car-ing. HD02,04 and 07 are the 3 serviceable rakes whilst HD06 is at Canton for tyre turning and HD05 is heading ecs from Crewe to Canton this evening also for tyre turning.

Until a set finishes it's tyre turning then there can only possibly be 3 diagrams covered.

 

[Newp410]

It looks like the only MK4 sets from Manchester today are the 0830, 1430 and 1630 departures.

67022 + HD02 were swapped onto 1W19 / 1V50 as they ended up at Canton yesterday vice Crewe. HD04 & HD07 the other two sets out.

 

[gingertom]

Instead of making the locos compatible with the stock, the stock was made compatible with the locos. The ATW and Chiltern MKIII sets, and subsequently the TfW MKIV sets are all fitted with AAR to be compatible with 67s. The Chiltern 68s also have AAR but it's not standard across the rest of that fleet.

In addition, the TfW 67s have a different multi cable connection to a standard 67 that gives a greater amount of communication between the loco and the stock. Amongst other benefits this provides a working guard/driver buzzer system, reliable two way communication, and shows the driver in the loco the status of the door integrity system in the MKIVs - all of which were lacking in the MKIIIs.

So in short, any 68 would require a degree of modification to work with the TfW MKIVs - but the ones that never worked for Chiltern would require an extra degree of modification.

would the class 57 be suitable, and if so, are there sufficient going about that could be pressed into service? They seem to do alright on the Night Riviera sleepers.

 

[D6130]

would the class 57 be suitable, and if so, are there sufficient going about that could be pressed into service? They seem to do alright on the Night Riviera sleepers.

That would bring the wheel round full circle, as they worked the 'Gerald' when it first started. with the Mk 3 stock!

 

[gingertom]

That would bring the wheel round full circle, as they worked the 'Gerald' when it first started. with the Mk 3 stock!

I wasn't aware of that. Reintroducing 57s would mean admitting defeat, something government departments never do.

There must have been a good reason at the time for changing to 67s- higher top speed? Is there anywhere on the route to exploit this?