Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

[tomoufc]

Which particular through connections would you like to sever? (That is off topic by the way)

I guess the equivalent of Cardiff to Manchester as a 150 is TransPennine using 150s to Newcastle? Maybe the Saltburn train if Newcastle seems a bit bigger than Cardiff? Worth remembering too that TPE do have Mk5 which are new, not hand-me-downs, and have phased them out because unreliable microfleets are not progress.

I guess it is hard for rail enthusiasts to think that normal passengers prefer a 197 on a direct train than loco-hauled stock that breaks the connection and gets replaced with a 150 (or borrows the 197 from a direct train so the 197 gets replaced with a 150). I find it laughable that people defend TfW when this whole thread is "which of the booked diagrams are actually running?"

We are told there are changes coming to the timetable, but this shambles has been going on for more than one timetable change already. It seems so long ago we had a reliable 175 service on the Marches which connected West Wales

Your beef is with TfW, not me

 

[craigybagel]

Immediately below a post which said how great TfW are for having 30 year old reject stock from England.

The Mk4 is nothing more than a vanity project which has severed connectivity and left continual mess in its wake. Yes, Mk4s are nice when they run, but they do not always run, don't look like getting to the full set of diagrams any time soon, and that is not good enough. People on here seem excited when the booked train actually turns up as booked. That is how bad the Mk4 project has made the Marches.

So forgive me if I am critical of TfW. I doubt anyone else who watched their connection pulling out as the Mk4 pulled in, thus earning an hour in Cardiff, would be happy either (And that is when the connection works, for many hours the Cardiff time after splitting the diagram is not even long enough to continue West without the long wait).

There is still connectivity across Cardiff. Yes it's only 2 hourly now instead of hourly, but given the vast majority of passengers on both sides leave the train at Cardiff that seems a reasonable compromise to me. In the past ATW/TFW struggled with capacity in the peaks into Manchester because of the length of time it took to do a Manchester/West Wales round trip. Now the capacity of the MKIVs can be concentrated where it's actually needed.

It also improves reliability on the route since disruption on one side of Cardiff will only affect half of the services on the other side.

So it's a sacrifice for some, but for most an improvement. I'm sorry that you're part of the some, but with a network like TfW there's always going to need to be compromises.

 

[Jez]

There is still connectivity across Cardiff. Yes it's only 2 hourly now instead of hourly, but given the vast majority of passengers on both sides leave the train at Cardiff that seems a reasonable compromise to me. In the past ATW/TFW struggled with capacity in the peaks into Manchester because of the length of time it took to do a Manchester/West Wales round trip. Now the capacity of the MKIVs can be concentrated where it's actually needed.

It also improves reliability on the route since disruption on one side of Cardiff will only affect half of the services on the other side.

So it's a sacrifice for some, but for most an improvement. I'm sorry that you're part of the some, but with a network like TfW there's always going to need to be compromises.

As someone who lives west of Cardiff its definitely.a lot less useful when travelling to Manchester or stations on the Marches. I often used the 8am (ish) train from Neath and 1830 back neither of which are direct now..Although there is a connection off the 1830. I usually would use the 7am or 9am trains from Neath now which are direct as its easier than connecting. But I accept that the majority of passengers alight at Cardiff in both directions.. its a balance I guess. I also.used the 7am.up and 1630 back quite a bit.and these still run further West. Plus of course on Sundays we still get hourly.as far as Swansea. So it's only inconvenient at certain times.


Anyway to avoid this going.too far off topic does.anyone know why so many first class services didn't run yesterday (I noticed on twitter/X they posted quite a few were units) Given the MK4 have apparently the best availability they have had in a while that really surprised me yesterday.to see so many subbed for units
.

 

[Topological]

Your beef is with TfW, not me

Very much so, but you did question the premise of my questioning TfW so I felt a response was warranted.

There is still connectivity across Cardiff. Yes it's only 2 hourly now instead of hourly, but given the vast majority of passengers on both sides leave the train at Cardiff that seems a reasonable compromise to me. In the past ATW/TFW struggled with capacity in the peaks into Manchester because of the length of time it took to do a Manchester/West Wales round trip. Now the capacity of the MKIVs can be concentrated where it's actually needed.

It also improves reliability on the route since disruption on one side of Cardiff will only affect half of the services on the other side.

So it's a sacrifice for some, but for most an improvement. I'm sorry that you're part of the some, but with a network like TfW there's always going to need to be compromises.

That would be ok if there were no issues created by terminating trains at Cardiff and someone in TfW control could maintain connections. Problems with terminating trains at Cardiff are well documented so increasing the number of terminators seems like a bad idea.

In terms of capacity, I thought that was what the 197s achieved. Since we will be seeing 2+3 and splitting/joining at Swansea. Doing so hourly would seem like a step forwards without causing too much disbenefit for Cardiff.

As noted though the timetable is finally going to change and then we should see the connectivity back. It is not as good as it could be, but at least it is a step in the right direction.

Just got to get control to hold connections a bit better (even just 5 minutes as a cap would help greatly).

 

[tomoufc]

Very much so, but you did question the premise of my questioning TfW so I felt a response was warranted.

Only tangentially. Hopefully a solution can be found for services now that we have the rolling stock we do.

 

[Newp410]

On another note, would anyone have details of whether the Canton starter is booked to work 1W11 or 1W13 this week please?

 

[sd0733]

On another note, would anyone have details of whether the Canton starter is booked to work 1W11 or 1W13 this week please?

Should be back to 1W11, W13 reverting to a 2 car 197.

 

[ATP]

Looks like a swap on 1W55 this morning. Is that down to the disruption around church stretton?

 

[The Prisoner]

Apologies if this has been covered, but is there any plan to use these on the Holyhead - Cardiff services other than the Gerald? I'd been planning a trip from Chester to Swansea, but it seems to be a constant stream of 197s or even 150s. Sure there used to be Mk 4s a year or two back (my office overlooks the viaduct next to Chester Racecourse).

 

[berneyarms]

Apologies if this has been covered, but is there any plan to use these on the Holyhead - Cardiff services other than the Gerald? I'd been planning a trip from Chester to Swansea, but it seems to be a constant stream of 197s or even 150s. Sure there used to be Mk 4s a year or two back (my office overlooks the viaduct next to Chester Racecourse).

No they have reallocated the sets to Cardiff-Manchester.

 

[sd0733]

Looks like a swap on 1W55 this morning. Is that down to the disruption around church stretton?

Seems to be down to the issues at Sutton Bridge, a set was left in Holyhead for the same reason. So everything is in place for tomorrow HD01 will work the 16:49 to Crewe rather than 17:14 Holyhead later on.

 

[craigybagel]

Just to follow up on this, notices have appeared saying the changes will take place in "early April". As expected, the MU speeds are going, and being replaced for the most part with a 90/70 passenger/freight differential instead. The last two miles of the up approaching Harlescotte will be 85/70, so a slight slowing down for DMUs on this section, but it'll only add seconds at most. Loco hauled services should gain several minutes from being able to run at 90 vice 70.

Conformed in next week's WONs, the linespeed changes Crewe - Shrewsbury go live from Sunday April 7th.

 

[IslandLine101]

Will the timetables be sped up in June to account for this? And do we know how they're getting on with Onibury to Shrewsbury? Its great to see progress being made

 

[BillStampy]

67012 allocated to Manchester start tomorrow morning (with HD04), first run in passenger service for TfW in a long while, I plan on seeing it on 1V50 tomorrow aswell.

 

[craigybagel]

Will the timetables be sped up in June to account for this?

Probably not. More likely they'll wait till the big timetable change in December. Plus there isn't that much space to tighten the times - the existing times are very tight and a struggle to meet with the current limits

And do we know how they're getting on with Onibury to Shrewsbury? Its great to see progress being made

No news or signs of work, but that isn't too concerning. It was the same with Crewe - Shrewsbury until last week when the new speed boards (bagged over) suddenly appeared.

 

[185]

There is still connectivity across Cardiff. Yes it's only 2 hourly now instead of hourly, but given the vast majority of passengers on both sides leave the train at Cardiff that seems a reasonable compromise to me.

They should run Manchesters hourly on to Swansea, whilst anything coming from the west of that should instead be tied in with services to Wrexham / Holyhead / Chester etc.

Yet another totally rammed 2-car 197 on Cardiff-Manchester on Saturday (1W16, 1311 arrival at Man Picc) with 20-30 being left on many stations on route. This was whilst 1D38 (1326 Airport-Picc-Llandudno) was noticed with 2x197s a 4-car, lightly loaded. The whole 197 order should have been 3-car.

 

[sd0733]

67012 allocated to Manchester start tomorrow morning (with HD04), first run in passenger service for TfW in a long while, I plan on seeing it on 1V50 tomorrow aswell.

Been a while to get 012 back, hopefully some of the other missing ones (017 and 020 being the longest now) will follow suit.

Been lots of loco swapping recently so now have:
HD01+67008
HD02+67014 (swaps to 010 on Friday)
HD03+67010 (swaps to 014 on Friday)
HD04+67012
HD05+67013
HD06+67022
HD07+67025

 

[Lurcheroo]

Yet another totally rammed 2-car 197 on Cardiff-Manchester on Saturday (1W16, 1311 arrival at Man Picc) with 20-30 being left on many stations on route. This was whilst 1D38 (1326 Airport-Picc-Llandudno) was noticed with 2x197s a 4-car, lightly loaded. The whole 197 order should have been 3-car.

I assume it was seen at Piccadilly, hard to say as it could well be that 4 car is working a ‘busier’ diagram than the unit you were on which may be its only overcrowded service of the day. and whilst the 4 car is lightly loaded at that time could we’ll spend other times of day being very busy where a 2 car is unsuitable. It could possibly have been incredibly busy on its previous run into Piccadilly and the airport (possibly busier than your service would have been if it was a 4car) How do you assign units in that case ?
I agree that clearly the service you were on needed more than 2 coaches but that doesn’t mean the other shouldn’t be a 4 car.

As for the ordering of 2 coaches, 2 coach units ARE needed. I’ve explained it many times on here, but as an example plenty of Cambrian services need not be more than 2 coaches. And I’m sure there’s plenty of other services that equally don’t need to be more than 2.
And please don’t misunderstand me, I appreciate it would give a guarantee of getting no less than 3 coaches if they all were, but the real issue is just getting everything into service so that marches services don’t need to run as 2 cars just to run something.

 

[Topological]

Marches will be fine as 3+2, which is being introduced in December 2023. The problem seems to be getting to that point.

However, TfW seem to have prioritised getting 197s onto Maesteg so we are still seeing the Marches left short, or even worse with 2-car 150s.

IF the Mk4 can at least be reliable enough to run the 1 less than planned diagrams then maybe there will be some double 197s on the Marches soon.

At least all 7 Mk4 have a loco now according to @sd0733 post.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Marches will be fine as 3+2, which is being introduced in December 2023. The problem seems to be getting to that point.

However, TfW seem to have prioritised getting 197s onto Maesteg so we are still seeing the Marches left short, or even worse with 2-car 150s.

IF the Mk4 can at least be reliable enough to run the 1 less than planned diagrams then maybe there will be some double 197s on the Marches soon.

At least all 7 Mk4 have a loco now according to @sd0733 post.

Looking at RTT today anything from south wales to Manchester Piccadilly has been minimum of 3 cars with a few 4 and 5 car services.

Looks like only 1 2 car yesterday with everything else being 3,4 or 5.

Saturday did have quite a number of 2 car services though.

 

[Topological]

Looking at RTT today anything from south wales to Manchester Piccadilly has been minimum of 3 cars with a few 4 and 5 car services.

Looks like only 1 2 car yesterday with everything else being 3,4 or 5.

Saturday did have quite a number of 2 car services though.

That is really good, long may it continue.

 

[Bikeman78]

Marches will be fine as 3+2, which is being introduced in December 2023. The problem seems to be getting to that point.

However, TfW seem to have prioritised getting 197s onto Maesteg so we are still seeing the Marches left short, or even worse with 2-car 150s.

IF the Mk4 can at least be reliable enough to run the 1 less than planned diagrams then maybe there will be some double 197s on the Marches soon.

At least all 7 Mk4 have a loco now according to @sd0733 post.

The only trains that often turn out a 150 now are 1W92, 1V97 and 1W98 instead of a 158.

 

[Topological]

The only trains that often turn out a 150 now are 1W92, 1V97 and 1W98 instead of a 158.

So 2 going to Holyhead and 1 Holyhead to Cardiff. Presumably there are some swaps.

Worth saying that is still 3 headcodes too many.

 

[Welshguy1048]

04/04/24 - DVT 82226 "Wales Air Ambulance Livery" & Class 67 - 67008 - Holyhead to Cardiff Central

 

[sd0733]

Been a while to get 012 back, hopefully some of the other missing ones (017 and 020 being the longest now) will follow suit.

Been lots of loco swapping recently so now have:
HD01+67008
HD02+67014 (swaps to 010 on Friday)
HD03+67010 (swaps to 014 on Friday)
HD04+67012
HD05+67013
HD06+67022
HD07+67025

Been some changes to this (already!)

67010 will now come off HD03 at Canton with 67015 heading down later to replace it, HD06 now has 67013 coming off HD05.

HD04 will tonight finish in Holyhead and like HD02 before it will enter temporary storage waiting for 02 to finish its exam at Crewe before heading there for B exam and 5 car. 67012 will return to Crewe as a spare loco.


The 05:30 from Holyhead will be a unit tomorrow as HD04 won't come out so HD05 will pick up the rest of the diagram from the 10:52 from Cardiff.

 

[BillStampy]

Lots of diagram changing then! Thankfully there isn't a major disruption caused by this except for tomorrows 0530, HD06 has taken HD03s diagram on 1V50 aswell.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Afternoon

Is this a 67 and a set that is going to Crewe tomorrow?

Realtime Trains | 0Z22 0825 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Crewe C.S. | 05/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Z22 0825 departure from Holyhead Car. M.D. to Crewe C.S. on 05/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Dave

 

[sd0733]

Afternoon

Is this a 67 and a set that is going to Crewe tomorrow?

Realtime Trains | 0Z22 0825 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Crewe C.S. | 05/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Z22 0825 departure from Holyhead Car. M.D. to Crewe C.S. on 05/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Dave

Should be light engine 67012..the set will stay in Holyhead.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Should be light engine 67012..the set will stay in Holyhead.

Thanks @sd0733

Dave

04/04/24 - DVT 82201 & Class 67 - Cardiff Central to Holyhead

 

[Western 52]

Today's 1W56 has terminated at Cardiff. 67025 was making a howling noise on the run from Swansea. Not heard a 67 do that before.