Examples of non "LGV" passenger services using High Speed Lines in Europe.

[peteb]

I just travelled from Bruxelles Midi to Rotterdam on a loco hauled Dutch IC train and the Antwerp to Breda section at least was on the High Speed Line, (the one with the yellow and blue flag signs, and used by Eurostars to Amsterdam).

Does anyone know of other passenger trains using these types of line (albeit I assume at 160-200 km/h)? I guess there must be examples in Germany and southern France?

I wonder why HS1 and HS2 couldn't also have non high speed services, capacity permitting?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As long as the train's signalling and gauge capability matches that of the infrastructure, there's no problem.
Trains would also have to cope with any stations on the HSL, in terms of the platform interface, but mostly they will serve stations off the HSL.
The Florence-Rome HSL is used by ordinary trains over some sections (eg Florence-Valdarno) - this dates from when the line was first opened.

 

[Railsigns]

I once had a cab ride on a loco-hauled passenger train from Frankfurt to Würzburg, the last part of which was on the high-speed line.

 

[rvdborgt]

Regional express trains:
München-Nürnberg (200)
Wendlingen-Ulm (200)
Nantes-Rennes via Angers and Laval (also 200 IIRC)

 

[hexagon789]

I just travelled from Bruxelles Midi to Rotterdam on a loco hauled Dutch IC train and the Antwerp to Breda section at least was on the High Speed Line, (the one with the yellow and blue flag signs, and used by Eurostars to Amsterdam).

Does anyone know of other passenger trains using these types of line (albeit I assume at 160-200 km/h)? I guess there must be examples in Germany and southern France?

I wonder why HS1 and HS2 couldn't also have non high speed services, capacity permitting?

München-Nürnberg-Express - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The München-Nürnberg-Express (literally: Munich-Nuremberg Express) is a RegionalExpress train service in the southern German state of Bavaria, connecting the two main cities of the state, Munich and Nuremberg. With its maximum speed of 200 km/h (125 mph), the train is currently (as of 2011) the fastest regional train service in Germany.

This is probably the best known German example, the Munich/Nuremberg Express. Germany did have one even using 140km/h non-pressure sealed regional stock but it ended in 2020.

 

[StephenHunter]

HS1 does get plenty of freight, but I don't think that counts here.

 

[43096]

Regional express trains:
München-Nürnberg (200)
Wendlingen-Ulm (200)
Nantes-Rennes via Angers and Laval (also 200 IIRC)

München-Nürnberg isn’t currently 200km/h; think the current Skoda junk is 190km/h (when running at all).

Does conventional hauled stock on the new sections of Austria’s Westbahn count? Several trains including peak D trains and Nightjets on there.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Domestic Belgian express passenger services use the high Speed Line between Brussels and Liege running at up to 200 kph.

 

[notadriver]

In France class Z21700 runs at 200 kph on a short section of LGV in Brittany.

 

[SeanG]

I was on a late running EC163 the other month which used the high speed line Worgl to Innsbruck.

There is also a loco hauled IRE200 in Germany which uses a high speed line (the location escapes me at the moment)

 

[MarcVD]

Domestic Belgian express passenger services use the high Speed Line between Brussels and Liege running at up to 200 kph.

As well as a local service from Antwerp to Noorderkempen on the high speed line to the Netherlands.
The night jet to Berlin and Wien is also expected to use high speed lines to Germany as soon as the Oebb Vectron that hauls it is qualified.

 

[MCR247]

I just travelled from Bruxelles Midi to Rotterdam on a loco hauled Dutch IC train and the Antwerp to Breda section at least was on the High Speed Line, (the one with the yellow and blue flag signs, and used by Eurostars to Amsterdam).

Does anyone know of other passenger trains using these types of line (albeit I assume at 160-200 km/h)? I guess there must be examples in Germany and southern France?

I wonder why HS1 and HS2 couldn't also have non high speed services, capacity permitting?

I’d argue HS1 does with the Class 395 services. Yes, they’re 140mph but the High Speed services on the line are 186mph.

It also doesn’t really make sense to purposely plan to have lower speed services on high speed lines, because, as you say, it eats capacity. As for HS2, where would the non high speed services go?

 

[Austriantrain]

Does conventional hauled stock on the new sections of Austria’s Westbahn count? Several trains including peak D trains and Nightjets on there.

Depends on how you see it. The "new Westbahn" was never defined as an HSL, rather as a "high performance line" ("Hochleistungsstrecke" in German), specifically built for mixed traffic. So running classic trains there is by design and not an exceptional use.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

In Spain Cl 252 standard gauge electric locos run on the Seville high speed line hauling Talgo services for Algerciras and Huelva.

 

[43096]

Depends on how you see it. The "new Westbahn" was never defined as an HSL, rather as a "high performance line" ("Hochleistungsstrecke" in German), specifically built for mixed traffic. So running classic trains there is by design and not an exceptional use.

Thanks! That was why I asked the question.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

IRE1 Karlsruhe - Stuttgart uses the high speed line between Vaihingen (Enz) and Stuttgart, sometimes between Bruchsal and Stuttgart at 160 km/h

 

[Bikeman78]

I just travelled from Bruxelles Midi to Rotterdam on a loco hauled Dutch IC train and the Antwerp to Breda section at least was on the High Speed Line, (the one with the yellow and blue flag signs, and used by Eurostars to Amsterdam).

Does anyone know of other passenger trains using these types of line (albeit I assume at 160-200 km/h)? I guess there must be examples in Germany and southern France?

I wonder why HS1 and HS2 couldn't also have non high speed services, capacity permitting?

There is a half hourly loco hauled service from Leuven to Liege Guillemins which runs at 200 km/h, most double deckers top and tailed. I hadn't realised that Leuven to Brussel Noord had been upgraded to 200 km/h. Not sure when that happened.

 

[D6130]

As long as the train's signalling and gauge capability matches that of the infrastructure, there's no problem.
Trains would also have to cope with any stations on the HSL, in terms of the platform interface, but mostly they will serve stations off the HSL.
The Florence-Rome HSL is used by ordinary trains over some sections (eg Florence-Valdarno) - this dates from when the line was first opened.

The Roma-Firenze 'Direttissima' HSL - opened in stages between 1977 and 1992 - was electrified on the standard Italian 3Kv DC system and equipped with standard Italian signalling, albeit with additional aspects and increased braking distances, with a maximum line speed of 250 km/h. When first opened, it was used by a lot of loco-hauled Rapido/InterCity/EuroCity trains travelling at up to 200km/h....plus fast regional trains travelling at up to 160 km/h. These trains still use it between Settebagni (in the Northern suburbs of Roma) and Orte and between Arezzo and Firenze Rovezzano. However the line is currently being converted to 25 Kv AC (as used on all the other Italian high speed lines) and upgraded to 300 km/h with ECTS. This will mean that loco-hauled IC/EC services worked by dual-voltage ETCS-fitted class E402 electric locomotives will still be able to use it - when paths permit - but the Regionale Veloce services - worked by 3 Kv DC-only class E464 locos - will be confined to the slower classic line, with its sharp curves and steep gradients.

 

[rvdborgt]

There is a half hourly loco hauled service from Leuven to Liege Guillemins which runs at 200 km/h, most double deckers top and tailed. I hadn't realised that Leuven to Brussel Noord had been upgraded to 200 km/h. Not sure when that happened.

That's since ERTMS was taken into service in 2012; only the 2 middle tracks are 200 km/h (line 36N). It shaved off 1 minute between Leuven and Brussels compared to 160 km/h.

There are also REs Nürnberg-Coburg using the HSL from Ebersfeld at 160 km/h with 4-car Desiro HC (class 1462) and 193+Dosto. From 9 June, there'll be more REs, some of which continuing to Erfurt, also using the HSL, with 6-car Desiro HC at 190 km/h (class 4462).

 

[Bikeman78]

That's since ERTMS was taken into service in 2012; only the 2 middle tracks are 200 km/h (line 36N). It shaved off 1 minute between Leuven and Brussels compared to 160 km/h.

I take it that all the other trains, e.g. class 21 and 27 locos, use the normal fixed signals because they do not have ERTMS. Quite rare to have trains use different signalling on the same line I think. Quite a range of speeds too. The classic EMUs were still running in 2012 with a top speed of 130 km/h.

 

[deltic]

HS1 does get plenty of freight, but I don't think that counts here.

Does it really - there are a number of freight paths but there rarely seems to be more than a daily train actually run that I can see.

 

[StephenHunter]

Does it really - there are a number of freight paths but there rarely seems to be more than a daily train actually run that I can see.

OK, I concede your point.