Exit strategy predictions

[Bletchleyite]

It's quite short compared to WW2 (Boris's favourite comparator, not to mention Captain Tom).

You could go outside during WW2, except when an air raid was on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Government is devolved, so the architect of these signs is not Westminster.

Khan can gob all he likes but almost nothing is devolved to him. He can't even mandate masks on LU even though he wants to. He's basically an elected transport chief and that's all he is. The Borough Councils have a lot more power than he does.

He also wouldn't say anything from him came from "the Government" as he has no remit to do so.

 

[bramling]

Khan can gob all he likes but almost nothing is devolved to him. He can't even mandate masks on LU even though he wants to. He's basically an elected transport chief and that's all he is. The Borough Councils have a lot more power than he does.

He also wouldn't say anything from him came from "the Government" as he has no remit to do so.

Despite the very conspicuous spat that’s been going on between Khan and the government, I’m quite sure these signs are endorsed by both parties.

Incidentally, on reflection my earlier post may have been slightly unclear. To clarify, the posters are displayed on LU stations (apart from a few NR stations seem to have “borrowed” them), but the PA announcements are being played at NR stations. The latter certainly aren’t devolved through the mayor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone have a photo of one of these signs or know the exact text on them?

If it says "only use public transport if it's essential" or implies that that's probably reasonable, as you should drive if you own or have access to a car, or if not and you have a bicycle you should cycle, or if walking is an option that. Public transport or a taxi is to be the last choice only if all the others aren't viable.

 

[yorksrob]

Despite the very conspicuous spat that’s been going on between Khan and the government, I’m quite sure these signs are endorsed by both parties.

Incidentally, on reflection my earlier post may have been slightly unclear. To clarify, the posters are displayed on LU stations (apart from a few NR stations seem to have “borrowed” them), but the PA announcements are being played at NR stations. The latter certainly aren’t devolved through the mayor.

Then I would be asking the Government why it is telling me to go to work on one hand, then preventing me from doing so on the other.

 

[bramling]

Does anyone have a photo of one of these signs or know the exact text on them?

If it says "only use public transport if it's essential" or implies that that's probably reasonable, as you should drive if you own or have access to a car, or if not and you have a bicycle you should cycle, or if walking is an option that. Public transport or a taxi is to be the last choice only if all the others aren't viable.

Do a search on google for something like “Underground essential worker signs”. It’s the signs which are displayed on a white board and have two large circles with text in them, the top circle being green the bottom circle being red.

I’ve been seeing them almost daily for the last three weeks, but I won’t be going near one for the next 3 weeks now!

 

[Huntergreed]

Then I would be asking the Government why it is telling me to go to work on one hand, then preventing me from doing so on the other.

I think that whilst public transport is being advertised for “essential use only”, it is permitted for workers who cannot work from home to use this service, as this is essential for their livelihood, and I think the fact that this message has been confusing people into thinking that non essential workers cannot use it is the reason why rail travel is down as much as 99%

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do a search on google for something like “Underground essential worker signs”. It’s the signs which are displayed on a white board and have two large circles with text in them, the top circle being green the bottom circle being red.

I’ve been seeing them almost daily for the last three weeks, but I won’t be going near one for the next 3 weeks now!

These?

(not my photo)

That's a bit naughty. Probably Sadiq's job.

 

[yorksrob]

I think that whilst public transport is being advertised for “essential use only”, it is permitted for workers who cannot work from home to use this service, as this is essential for their livelihood, and I think the fact that this message has been confusing people into thinking that non essential workers cannot use it is the reason why rail travel is down as much as 99%

For me "essential use only" would be acceptible, as I would consider getting to work as essential. However, according to some on here, the signage refers to "key workers" only being allowed to use public transport, which would be misleading.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For me "essential use only" would be acceptible, as I would consider getting to work as essential. However, according to some on here, the signage refers to "key workers" only being allowed to use public transport, which would be misleading.

Agreed. In London many people will need to use public transport to get to a supermarket, for instance.

 

[bramling]

Then I would be asking the Government why it is telling me to go to work on one hand, then preventing me from doing so on the other.

But are they doing that?

The initial guidance was only travel to work if you cannot work from home. I agree there is a slight blur between that wording and the word “essential”, however I think the intent is pretty clear.

As I said elsewhere, forgetting about the definition of essential for one moment, someone going on a jolly will stand out like a sore thumb, especially if travelling as a group. In reality, in my spheres of experience at least, it’s been fairly self-enforcing.

I suspect a family turning up at a booking office asking for a set of day returns to Clacton-on-Sea would be questioned sufficiently that they’d end up giving up. Likewise I seem to remember we did read on here from a reliable source that BTP were actively turfing people off Skegness trains, so perhaps things have been different in different areas.

 

[yorksrob]

These?

(not my photo)

That's a bit naughty. Probably Sadiq's job.

So it's the mayor's office giving out a somewhat fudged message which seems to be going against the Governments guidelines.

 

[bramling]

Agreed. In London many people will need to use public transport to get to a supermarket, for instance.

Part of the trouble was that in the early days there was still very heavy early-morning crowding, which was largely attributed to construction workers. It was this which led to things having to be turned a bit more hard-hitting. (Although HS2 work still seems to be going on!).

Few seem to have been using the Underground for shopping, though perhaps this is different on buses.

 

[yorksrob]

But are they doing that?

The initial guidance was only travel to work if you cannot work from home. I agree there is a slight blur between that wording and the word “essential”, however I think the intent is pretty clear.

As I said elsewhere, forgetting about the definition of essential for one moment, someone going on a jolly will stand out like a sore thumb, especially if travelling as a group. In reality, in my spheres of experience at least, it’s been fairly self-enforcing.

I suspect a family turning up at a booking office asking for a set of day returns to Clacton-on-Sea would be questioned sufficiently that they’d end up giving up. Likewise I seem to remember we did read on here from a reliable source that BTP were actively turfing people off Skegness trains, so perhaps things have been different in different areas.

The issue is that at no stage has the Government said in its advice that you're not allowed to go to work if you're not a key or an "essential" worker. "Only travel to work if you cannot work from home " isn't the initial advice, it has been the guidance all along and still is.

If the Mayor is saying otherwise, he is contradicting the guidance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Part of the trouble was that in the early days there was still very heavy early-morning crowding, which was largely attributed to construction workers. It was this which led to things having to be turned a bit more hard-hitting. (Although HS2 work still seems to be going on!).

Few seem to have been using the Underground for shopping, though perhaps this is different on buses.

It could I suppose be argued that if a bus is an option you should use it over the Tube, as drivers have now been properly protected and distancing is easier than on cramped deep Tube trains.

 

[bramling]

These?

(not my photo)

That's a bit naughty. Probably Sadiq's job.

Yes that’s the one.

 

[bramling]

The issue is that at no stage has the Government said in its advice that you're not allowed to go to work if you're not a key or an "essential" worker. "Only travel to work if you cannot work from home " isn't the initial advice, it has been the guidance all along and still is.

If the Mayor is saying otherwise, he is contradicting the guidance.

Should it not be the case they every employer should have run through their workforce and identified those staff who can work from home? Taking aside those people and those involved in specifically prohibited workplaces like pubs and restaurants, doesn’t this largely leave essential workers?

My place certainly has done exactly that, and has also taken some steps to assist or encourage those “essential” staff to come by car where expedient.

 

[yorksrob]

Should it not be the case they every employer should have run through their workforce and identified those staff who can work from home? Taking aside those people and those involved in specifically prohibited workplaces like pubs and restaurants, doesn’t this largely leave essential workers?

My place certainly has done exactly that, and has also taken some steps to assist or encourage those “essential” staff to come by car where expedient.

Yes, they should have assisted every member of staff who can work from home, to do so. That's what my employer has done. That doesn't mean to say that there won't be some people who can't work from home. They may have specialist equipment, or have to deal with mail, for example. It might not be an "essential" industry, but the Government hasn't closed all non-essential business.

I'm not aware that there is any requirement of businesses to lay on motor transport for those who can't work from home. As far as I'm aware, they can use public transport if there's no alternative.

 

[bramling]

It could I suppose be argued that if a bus is an option you should use it over the Tube, as drivers have now been properly protected and distancing is easier than on cramped deep Tube trains.

I’m not sure many people have ever used the Underground to do their regular food shopping? In normal times you’d often see people returning from somewhere like Oxford Street with that sort of shopping bags, but I’d say it’s rare to see people with multiple bags of food shopping.

Most people will presumably use the car if they can, or if on foot will presumably walk to their local small supermarket and do that more frequently.

I could be wrong, but that’s my perception.

I’d imagine pretty much the only Underground use at present is people going to or from work plus a few people making their way to or from medical appointments or collecting medications. (Plus a few hoodies travelling about who are sufficiently brazen to ignore everything).

 

[yorksrob]

It could I suppose be argued that if a bus is an option you should use it over the Tube, as drivers have now been properly protected and distancing is easier than on cramped deep Tube trains.

I'm not convinced that either of those are actually the case.

The bus driver still shares a compartment with the public, and there's no guarantee that a bus will be less crowded than even a tube train.

 

[Domh245]

Taking aside those people and those involved in specifically prohibited workplaces like pubs and restaurants, doesn’t this largely leave essential workers?

Depends on your definition of essential - things like car assembly plants were perfectly entitled to stay open throughout (although many closed because of the sudden collapse in demand and giving them time to figure out how to adapt working methods to suit social distancing), but going by the list of "essential workers" as set out by the Government there's an awful lot of jobs not on that list that pass your 'test'

 

[bramling]

I'm not convinced that either of those are actually the case.

The bus driver still shares a compartment with the public, and there's no guarantee that a bus will be less crowded than even a tube train.

From what I’ve seen the protection for bus drivers seems to consist of the front doors being locked out of use, and a couple of strips of hazard tape across the aisle a couple of rows back from the front. I’m not sure if the screening round the driving position has been enhanced.

 

[Qwerty133]

The issue is that at no stage has the Government said in its advice that you're not allowed to go to work if you're not a key or an "essential" worker. "Only travel to work if you cannot work from home " isn't the initial advice, it has been the guidance all along and still is.

If the Mayor is saying otherwise, he is contradicting the guidance.

The Mayor has done little but contradict and criticise the government over elements of the response that he has no say over. It appears that he is more interested in opposing the government for the sake opposition than to do anything that will actually benefit Londoners.

I’d imagine pretty much the only Underground use at present is people going to or from work plus a few people making their way to or from medical appointments or collecting medications. (Plus a few hoodies travelling about who are sufficiently brazen to ignore everything).

I've found that it is mainly older people who are blatantly ignoring the rules, despite what the media wants us to believe, but as normal the police will do nothing about the little old ladies due to the fear of being criticised as too much of society loves to blame the young for all ills and thinks the old can do no wrong.

 

[JonathanH]

The Mayor has done little but contradict and criticise the government over elements of the response that he has no say over. It appears that he is more interested in opposing the government for the sake opposition than to do anything that will actually benefit Londoners.

The mayor's stance is to protect transport workers who happen to basically be his employees. He is trying to keep demand on TfL's services as limited as possible to ensure that transport workers are not put at unnecessary risk.

 

[bramling]

The mayor's stance is to protect transport workers who happen to basically be his employees. He is trying to keep demand on TfL's services as limited as possible to ensure that transport workers are not put at unnecessary risk.

I think it’s more a case that he made a massive PR blunder early on by intimating that services could be reduced due to falling demand, and the we had a few Evening Standard front pages showing packed trains and platforms.

 

[Mag_seven]

OK folks it looks like we are clearly no longer discussing exit strategy predictions in this thread so it is now locked.

When the government announces its actual exit strategy (believed to be later this week) we shall open a new thread to discuss the new strategy then.