Experiences of heritage railway operations post lockdown

[John Luxton]

Heritage Railways approaches to Covid Risk

In the last three weeks or so I have visited five heritage railways, of the first three I am a member of their supporting societies and participated in members’ shakedown days.

The remaining two were visited on normal public service trains.

All are narrow gauge and within 90 miles of my home on Merseyside.

I am not identifying them –as I am not providing ammunition to the Secret Covid Police and virtue signallers who may be shocked by the variation!



Line 1 – Online booking only. Travel from main terminal only to half way where there is a café – approx. 55 minute at half way. Shop Closed.

Using vintage compartment stock only which is hand cleaned after each trip. Minimum fare per compartment. Staff wearing face coverings, though the guard did not appear to be. Strict one-way system in station. No access to station if not travelling. No face coverings requested for passengers just recommended. Not that I could see anyone following the recommendation.

Line 2 – Online booking only. Journeys to halfway point only. Staff and passengers to wear face coverings. Carriages cleaned by hand after each journey. As mainly open stock is used alternate bays are out of use. One-way system in operation on station to which only travellers are allowed. Journeys from terminal only. Shop open.

Line 3 – Online booking only. Greeter and catering staff wearing face visors operational staff and train crews not wearing coverings no request for passengers to do so – thus no one did. Freedom to wander anywhere around station to take photos, museum closed. One-way system to enter and leave site and one way in shop. Journeys to start and finish at the main terminal station. Full journey available. Plastic clear screens with canvass edging between seating in semi open carriages. Stock is fogged between journeys – the screening has a gap at the top to facilitate this. Shop open.

Line 4 – Walk up ticketing, normal fares apply sold on first come first served basis – but restricted to return or single journeys from main station. Full journey offered. Some hand sanitiser by entrance. Two trains in operation providing an hourly service. One rake of carriages is cleaned whilst the other operates. Passengers sat at opposite ends of bogie cars with empty seats between for social distancing. One-way system in operation at the station, museum closed. No face coverings worn by staff or passengers. Fairly normal experience. Shop Open.

Line 5 – Book on-line up to departure time. Minimum fare £20 (normal adult return £12) Hand sanitiser everywhere! Many markings. Notices emphasising Government public transport rules for face coverings all staff and passengers to wear them. Surprisingly though when a train arrived about half the passengers were not wearing them. So once out of the train moved off, I took mine off! Possible to travel single or return from either terminal station but not intermediate stations. No one way system. Unfortunate as the halfway station is usually popular on sunny days. No cleaning of stock between departures. Museum open. Shop Open

Line 3 has a much smaller main station site than line 1 but allows free wandering around the site for photo purposes though these locations are barely 30 miles apart!

Now the question is which line would you prefer to visit? – My choice is 3 and 4.

Why such a variation?

John

 

[johnnychips]

...

The remaining two were visited on normal public service trains.

All are narrow gauge and within 90 miles of my home on Merseyside...

You should put this in the ‘Quizzes and Games’ section

 

[John Luxton]

You should put this in the ‘Quizzes and Games’ section

I am not trying to be cryptic but just being careful as I am aware we live amongst Covid snitches who will virtue signal and inform on people and organisation who deviate.

As a sceptic I am a deviant and prefer approaches by lines who are not too rigid. But I am aware that as a supporter and member of 3 of the 5 mentioned above I do not want to be perceived as a trouble maker either.

John

 

[johnnychips]

Good for you John. I really want to visit the EVR, which is my favourite heritage railway, but I’m in quarantine at the moment.

 

[Amlag]

Good for you John. I really want to visit the EVR, which is my favourite heritage railway, but I’m

Good for you John. I really want to visit the EVR, which is my favourite heritage railway, but I’m in quarantine at the moment.

Living in a very rural area in the region of England with the least incidence of this virus I have since the dictat to wear fasks been put off visiting such places and shops etc.
the dubious benefits of masks, acknowledged by Wales and many scientists, which I believe should be now used by the general non vulnerable public only in known 'spike ' areas .

 

[Flying Phil]

On the Great Central there is on-line booking, but per passenger, for a ride from Quorn to Leicester North (- where you could get off to watch the run round) and return. Face masks required to be worn when on platforms, but they can be removed when in the coach compartment. The last weekend's passenger trains went well and there was a good, well spaced, number of people at Quorn. The Butler Henderson cafe was busy, as was the beer tent. Witherslack Hall was sparkling in the sunshine hauling 6 coaches. The NER railcar was also running.
It was possible to buy tickets on the day, as there were some vacancies on the trains.
It was well organised and felt safe for everyone, the train went ECS (Empty Coach Stock) to Loughborough for cleaning between passenger turns.

 

[Journeyman]

I think you're being very unfair to railways that are trying hard to make the best of difficult circumstances. I feel your posts are very negative, and you're not contributing anything useful.

I get it - you don't like it. Neither do I, but this is the best we have right now. How about getting involved, positively engaging with the issues, volunteering, talking to the HRA?

Nope, it's easier just to whine and claim the moral high ground, rather than actually try to achieve anything.

 

[UP13]

Went to the Mid Hants last Sunday with my wife and two youngest children. Had a whale of a time.

Tickets had to be booked online and you had the option of paying extra for a compartment (which we did).

Face masks were only required while boarding and alighting carriages and if sat in open carriages. Not required on platforms or in compartments.

You either booked the the train from Alton or Arlesford and had a morning slot or afternoon slot. Both trains did a complex route, which involves going through certain ststions, non-stop and ensuring both trains didn't stop at the same station at the same time. Both trains had an alotted 45 minutes at Ropley for passengers to have lunch, look around etc. One way system around the station but you were able to go up the embankment, cross the 'Harry Potter' bridges and walk alongside the shed and see the range of locomotive relatively up close.

Unusual traction as all services were tank engine hauled, including a certain very useful blue tank engine, with his face and numbers stripped off. My children loved seeing him race through Ropley non-stop when we were walking around.

A very well organised operation and we had the joy of seeing an engine not normally used on service trains and rubbing thorough stations non-stop on a service train.

 

[paul1609]

Heritage Railways approaches to Covid Risk

In the last three weeks or so I have visited five heritage railways, of the first three I am a member of their supporting societies and participated in members’ shakedown days.

The remaining two were visited on normal public service trains.

All are narrow gauge and within 90 miles of my home on Merseyside.

I am not identifying them –as I am not providing ammunition to the Secret Covid Police and virtue signallers who may be shocked by the variation!



Line 1 – Online booking only. Travel from main terminal only to half way where there is a café – approx. 55 minute at half way. Shop Closed.

Using vintage compartment stock only which is hand cleaned after each trip. Minimum fare per compartment. Staff wearing face coverings, though the guard did not appear to be. Strict one-way system in station. No access to station if not travelling. No face coverings requested for passengers just recommended. Not that I could see anyone following the recommendation.

Line 2 – Online booking only. Journeys to halfway point only. Staff and passengers to wear face coverings. Carriages cleaned by hand after each journey. As mainly open stock is used alternate bays are out of use. One-way system in operation on station to which only travellers are allowed. Journeys from terminal only. Shop open.

Line 3 – Online booking only. Greeter and catering staff wearing face visors operational staff and train crews not wearing coverings no request for passengers to do so – thus no one did. Freedom to wander anywhere around station to take photos, museum closed. One-way system to enter and leave site and one way in shop. Journeys to start and finish at the main terminal station. Full journey available. Plastic clear screens with canvass edging between seating in semi open carriages. Stock is fogged between journeys – the screening has a gap at the top to facilitate this. Shop open.

Line 4 – Walk up ticketing, normal fares apply sold on first come first served basis – but restricted to return or single journeys from main station. Full journey offered. Some hand sanitiser by entrance. Two trains in operation providing an hourly service. One rake of carriages is cleaned whilst the other operates. Passengers sat at opposite ends of bogie cars with empty seats between for social distancing. One-way system in operation at the station, museum closed. No face coverings worn by staff or passengers. Fairly normal experience. Shop Open.

Line 5 – Book on-line up to departure time. Minimum fare £20 (normal adult return £12) Hand sanitiser everywhere! Many markings. Notices emphasising Government public transport rules for face coverings all staff and passengers to wear them. Surprisingly though when a train arrived about half the passengers were not wearing them. So once out of the train moved off, I took mine off! Possible to travel single or return from either terminal station but not intermediate stations. No one way system. Unfortunate as the halfway station is usually popular on sunny days. No cleaning of stock between departures. Museum open. Shop Open

Line 3 has a much smaller main station site than line 1 but allows free wandering around the site for photo purposes though these locations are barely 30 miles apart!

Now the question is which line would you prefer to visit? – My choice is 3 and 4.

Why such a variation?

John

The answer to your question is that currently all heritage operations are losing money, the operations are very diverse and what is happening is that the operations are seeking to maximise income within their particular operation and thereby minimise their loses all whilst staying within the guidelines agreed by the HRA and ORR. The ORR have made it very clear that they will not hesitate to closed any operation that does not meet these guidelines.

The main criteria I would suggest based on 10 years experience of being a director of a line are as follows:

a) Geographical Location
b) Support from Local Authority
c) Functions normally carried out by volunteers
d) number of skill sets normally provided by paid staff and back up cover of those skill sets in the volunteer workforce.
e) IT provision and expertise.
f) Paid staff wage bill.
g) expected clientelle
this is not meant to be an exclusive list of factors.

The enthusiast market at most railways is very low if you strip out specialist events like galas etc I don't know of any location where it exceeds 10% of passengers and Id be surprised if there are more than a handful where it exceeds 5%. It therefore makes sense to target the markets that make up the majority of your income.

Considering where we are 5 months after the lockdown I don't foresee a time that railways will return to pre-covid operations. I suspect the financial implications of this year are such that many will never fully return to that state.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Went to the Mid Hants last Sunday with my wife and two youngest children. Had a whale of a time.

Tickets had to be booked online and you had the option of paying extra for a compartment (which we did).

Face masks were only required while boarding and alighting carriages and if sat in open carriages. Not required on platforms or in compartments.

You either booked the the train from Alton or Arlesford and had a morning slot or afternoon slot. Both trains did a complex route, which involves going through certain ststions, non-stop and ensuring both trains didn't stop at the same station at the same time. Both trains had an alotted 45 minutes at Ropley for passengers to have lunch, look around etc. One way system around the station but you were able to go up the embankment, cross the 'Harry Potter' bridges and walk alongside the shed and see the range of locomotive relatively up close.

Unusual traction as all services were tank engine hauled, including a certain very useful blue tank engine, with his face and numbers stripped off. My children loved seeing him race through Ropley non-stop when we were walking around.

A very well organised operation and we had the joy of seeing an engine not normally used on service trains and rubbing thorough stations non-stop on a service train.

This very much tallies with my visit to the Mid Hants at the end of July, except that I travelled on my own and used a table in an open carriage. As I've said elsewhere on another topic, everything was well organised and I enjoyed my visit very much.

 

[WesternLancer]

Interesting to read the varied approaches. All sound fairly reasonable. In relative terms I've seen more variety in how things are done in the various pubs I have visited since they have been permitted to re-open. In fact all of those examples listed here seem far more diligent than the approach taken by the least diligent pub I have been in...

 

[peteb]

Why the cloak and dagger approach? Identify the railways not adhering to Welsh or English Covid rules. If you knew someone who'd died from covid you might be less keen to protect those putting customers and staff at risk for purely selfish reasons.

 

[peteb]

I volunteer for a steam railway which is taking covid very seriously and has reopened with a great many safety measures in place. Railways only run successfully if they follow strict operational and H&S guidelines. Those that bend the rules will find it catches up with them one day - it only takes a video on youtube to identify them.

 

[WesternLancer]

Why the cloak and dagger approach? Identify the railways not adhering to Welsh or English Covid rules. If you knew someone who'd died from covid you might be less keen to protect those putting customers and staff at risk for purely selfish reasons.

are any bending the rules tho? The rules seem to be open to a range of interpretations - well they do if you go by my experience in pubs anyway...

 

[brstd4260]

I visited Didcot Railway centre the first weekend they were running with my family and the dog. It was well organised and as far as I could see being run in line with the guidelines. Only a specific number of visitors were allowed to enter each hour, masks were only required in the shop/museum and when buying food. The outside tables were well spaced out and separated from the main path by the tracks from the shed to the turntable. Queuing for the train rides was also well spaced out and people were called forward onto the platform to board as compartments were freed up. The steam was provided by a very clean "Lady of Legend" and two beautifully turned out vintage coaches. Volunteers were friendly and helpful as usual. An enjoyable visit!

 

[Shenandoah]

If there are some heritage sites and not just railway ones, that are having a relaxed attitude then it would be a good idea to get in touch with someone, in a responsible position at that attraction.
It will only take one well publicised infection spread, traceable to a heritage site, to do a lot of damage to other attractions that are abiding by the rules.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If there are some heritage sites and not just railway ones, that are having a relaxed attitude then it would be a good idea to get in touch with someone, in a responsible position at that attraction.
It will only take one well publicised infection spread, traceable to a heritage site, to do a lot of damage to other attractions that are abiding by the rules.

Absolutely. Entire industries will be besmirched.

 

[Belperpete]

The railway that I am involved in was concerned that its measures could be seen to be over the top, and so did quite a bit of customer feedback. The general feeling was that most passengers were happy that the railway was obviously taking the precautions seriously.

While some may think that the precautions are over the top, the bottom line is that in the current situation a considerable amount of reputational damage could be caused on social media by a few worried passengers posting about a line that was not taking it seriously.

 

[Journeyman]

The railway that I am involved in was concerned that its measures could be seen to be over the top, and so did quite a bit of customer feedback. The general feeling was that most passengers were happy that the railway was obviously taking the precautions seriously.

While some may think that the precautions are over the top, the bottom line is that in the current situation a considerable amount of reputational damage could be caused on social media by a few worried passengers posting about a line that was not taking it seriously.

Absolutely - if a COVID outbreak is linked to a heritage railway, the press and social media will be all over the precautions they took.

 

[WesternLancer]

Absolutely - if a COVID outbreak is linked to a heritage railway, the press and social media will be all over the precautions they took.

Indeed - but it's always going to be fairly random where the outbreaks will get traced to - it's easy for someone not knowing they have the virus yet to go somewhere, anywhere, and touch something, and someone else touch that same thing a short time afterwards and then eg rub their eye. All you can do is reduce risk, can't eliminate it. Impossible to clean everywhere that people can touch or wipe down after every touch etc etc.
Mots of the task is probably about making people feel they are safe, whether they are is probably down to a wider range of factors, many outside the control of the venue concerned - be that a shop, pub, petrol station, museum, preserved railway etc

 

[Journeyman]

Indeed - but it's always going to be fairly random where the outbreaks will get traced to - it's easy for someone not knowing they have the virus yet to go somewhere, anywhere, and touch something, and someone else touch that same thing a short time afterwards and then eg rub their eye. All you can do is reduce risk, can't eliminate it. Impossible to clean everywhere that people can touch or wipe down after every touch etc etc.
Mots of the task is probably about making people feel they are safe, whether they are is probably down to a wider range of factors, many outside the venue concerned - be that a shop, pub, petrol station, museum, preserved railway etc

Completely agree. I personally think it's all ridiculously excessive, but a lot of people will take a very dim view of anyone not doing the most they can, and yes, a lot of it is about "reassurance" more than anything else.

 

[UP13]

It's important to be seen as whiter as than white. Despite what people may think is the reality of the situation, heritage railways cannot afford poor PR.

Being seen as unnecessarily over the top won't harm the industry long term. Being seen as blasé and being at the centre of a new outbreak with a death toll will seriously harm the industry long term.

 

[John Luxton]

It's important to be seen as whiter as than white. Despite what people may think is the reality of the situation, heritage railways cannot afford poor PR.

Being seen as unnecessarily over the top won't harm the industry long term. Being seen as blasé and being at the centre of a new outbreak with a death toll will seriously harm the industry long term.

Interesting to see the various feedback comments to my original posting.

I just worry that railways are worrying too much about the influence of social media.

 

[Journeyman]

Interesting to see the various feedback comments to my original posting.

I just worry that railways are worrying too much about the influence of social media.

Of course they're worried about social media! You can't run a business these days and not worry about it!

I disagree with almost all the restrictions we're still living under, but I can completely understand why they're in place, and why people want them in place. I think you're being staggeringly naive and wrongly critical of railways that have to ensure they're beyond reproach if a COVID cluster breaks out around them.

 

[John Luxton]

Why the cloak and dagger approach? Identify the railways not adhering to Welsh or English Covid rules. If you knew someone who'd died from covid you might be less keen to protect those putting customers and staff at risk for purely selfish reasons.

I am not suggesting no one is adhering to anything I was merely pointing out the differences of approach.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss Experiences of heritage railway operations post lockdown

I have removed a post that went off topic that was posted some posts back; unfortunately anything which referred to this post has also had to go too.

If anyone wishes to discuss Covid-19 measures beyond the specific topic of experiences of heritage railways at the current time, please use the relevant forum section.

 

[Cowley]

Had a trip on Dartmouth Steam Railway with @MarkyT, @yorkie and @Mag_seven today.
It was very well run and headed non stop to Kingswear on the way out, and stopped at Churston for the other train to pass on the way back.
Pre booked seats and masks on for the journey but the journey only takes 25 minutes or so so it was fine.
No toilets or buffet on the train, but plenty of passengers which was good to see.
We noticed that the trains were running a little bit late on the way back (maybe 10-15 minutes or so) but the timetable seemed to be quite tight with quick run arounds etc.
Here’s a clip for those of you that like that kind of thing...

 

[Altnabreac]

I've been on line 4 (Fairbourne Railway) post lockdown as well, had a great trip with my 8 year old despite torrential rain. Was surprised the ferry was running as well. Full marks to them in running a friendly but Covid compliant system.

I looked at doing various of the other Welsh narrow gauge ones but Ffestiniog was very expensive for just 2 people, Bala, Tallylyn and Llanberis were shut the days we were there. Did consider Snowdon but would rather take my son another year when you can go to the top.

Based on the research I did though I'd assume that Line 1 is Ffestiniog, Line 2 Snowdon Mountain Railway, Line 3 is Llanberis Lake Railway and Line 5 is Bala Lake.

 

[Belperpete]

Based on the research I did though I'd assume that Line 1 is Ffestiniog, Line 2 Snowdon Mountain Railway, Line 3 is Llanberis Lake Railway and Line 5 is Bala Lake.

Except that on the Ffestiniog, the shop is open, the carriages are cleaned with mist-sprayer and by hand, you can book at the station (if any spaces are left), and you are free to wander around the platform and take photos of the engine if you want (there is only a one-way system through the station building and to the toilets).

While some may see the covid precautions as over the top, that is patently not the case for all those English tourists who I see wearing face masks in the supermarkets here despite them not being required in Wales.

 

[packermac]

Except that on the Ffestiniog, the shop is open, the carriages are cleaned with mist-sprayer and by hand, you can book at the station (if any spaces are left), and you are free to wander around the platform and take photos of the engine if you want (there is only a one-way system through the station building and to the toilets).

While some may see the covid precautions as over the top, that is patently not the case for all those English tourists who I see wearing face masks in the supermarkets here despite them not being required in Wales.

I suspect the face mask wearing will be because a large number of the public still seem unaware that rules are different in different areas of the UK. On a different forum someone who owns a holiday home said he had three callers telling him there is no such thing as a Welsh Government and why was he still shut when the holiday home sin England had reopened, during the time the Welsh ones still had to be closed.