Expired Railcard Chiltern prosecution

[Trainlinefool]

Absolutely stunned to have received the attached letter.

I was asked to display my Railcard on a journey to London. That was the first time I discovered my Railcard had expired on the Trainline app.

The conductor said “don’t worry, I’ll refer you to Chiltern and they’ll contact you to pay the difference.”

Then I get this letter.

My email response is below:

Dear Asif Ismail

Customer Reference 14506647

I have opened to day your letter of 9th May 2025 informing me of your intention to prosecute me for “avoiding the correct rail fare.”

I am a fairly infrequent traveller, requiring me to use rail travel to attend sporadic meetings and events in my role as a volunteer running a national charity.

I always use the Trainline app to book my travel. I purchased my railcard via the Trainline app. Until the day in question I was unaware my travel card had expired and received no notification at all it was due to expire, either from the National Railcard issuing body or via an alert from the Trainline app.

I am extremely distressed and alarmed to discover you are choosing to prosecute me! I am not a fare dodger, - presumably you can see I always pay for my tickets?

The out of date railcard was a complete oversight and I was travelling in good faith and the knowledge all was in order. Why on earth Trainline allows the purchase of a discounted fare without verification of appropriate documents which unlock that fare is a mystery and goes against the Consumer Rights Act, which sets out responsibilities on businesses to ensure customers are informed about their online purchases and e-transactions are clear and transparent.

Neither the National Railcard issuing body nor Trainline have maintained a fair level of customer service or information.

I’m shocked at Chiltern Railways heavy handed response. I look forward to hearing from you and wish to resolve this matter urgently.

Please acknowledge receipt of this correspondence by return, no later than 10 days from the date of this email.

Yours sincerely etc.

How do I rectify this? I have no idea what to expect. Obviously my Railcard is now renewed! Do I need to instruct a solicitor as their letter says?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Do not send this letter as it's currently written, assuming you wish to obtain a favourable outcome. I haven't got time to give feedback on it tonight but will advise fully at some point tomorrow, unless other forum members get to it first.

 

[Jam381]

Edit your post as your name is visible!

 

[AlterEgo]

Please tell us you didn’t actually send that email.

 

[CyrusWuff]

When purchasing a ticket online or through a mobile app it is your responsibility to ensure that any supporting Railcards or other documentation are valid and in-date on the day of travel.

It is perfectly valid to buy a discounted ticket wtihout a current Railcard providing you rectify the situation before travelling.

The situation isn't completely lost, given it's in Chiltern's interest to agree an out of Court settlement as 100% of that amount goes to them, whereas most of a Court fine goes to the Treasury.

 

[Trainlinefool]

Edit your post as your name is visible!

Where is my name visible?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

When purchasing a ticket online or through a mobile app it is your responsibility to ensure that any supporting Railcards or other documentation are valid and in-date on the day of travel.

It is perfectly valid to buy a discounted ticket wtihout a current Railcard providing you rectify the situation before travelling.

The situation isn't completely lost, given it's in Chiltern's interest to agree an out of Court settlement as 100% of that amount goes to them, whereas most of a Court fine goes to the Treasury.

Flipping heck. I didn’t know the Railcard had expired. I was booking tickets in good faith. If I went to a train station I couldn’t buy the ticket with an expired Railcard! I don’t understand this. I wasn’t trying to dodge fares!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

Welcome to the forum!

Do not send this letter as it's currently written, assuming you wish to obtain a favourable outcome. I haven't got time to give feedback on it tonight but will advise fully at some point tomorrow, unless other forum members get to it first.

I just want to sort this out. I’m completely reeling at all this. It’s horrible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

Welcome to the forum!

Do not send this letter as it's currently written, assuming you wish to obtain a favourable outcome. I haven't got time to give feedback on it tonight but will advise fully at some point tomorrow, unless other forum members get to it first.

The email has already gone. Their letter was so shocking. I don’t understand why they’re taking me to court! I’ve renewed my Railcard. It was an oversight. I understand I need to pay the difference on the fare. Why can’t I pay the difference? I don’t understand why they’re taking this action! It’s absolutely horrific!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

Edit your post as your name is visible!

My name isn’t visible?

 

[AlterEgo]

How long ago had the railcard expired and how many bookings had you travelled on since then? Chiltern will audit your ticket purchasing accounts and will want the fares due if they find other occasions too.

Did you send the email? If you have, I’m afraid it’s quite damaging and you need to retract it; you’ve committed a criminal offence of strict liability, like speeding or driving without insurance, and responding in the manner of your email is very unwise. Chiltern will prosecute you (and will win) unless you:

- apologise for travelling with an invalid ticket
- offer to pay the outstanding fare/s
- say you have learned from the exoerience
- and commit not to do it again

After this they usually settle out of court for the fare due plus an administration fee of £100-150 or so.

Bylaw 18 refers:

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas​

1. in any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel

No intent need be proven. The offence was complete the moment you boarded the train.

 

[John R]

Just to add to those saying that sending the letter was very ill-advised, we did see a case recently where somebody sent a similarly aggressive response back and unsurprisingly the rail company dug its heels in and refused to offer a settlement.

IIRC that was only resolved when they engaged the services of a specialist solicitor who turned things around, but presumably at significant cost in terms of legal fees.

 

[Eyersey468]

In answer to the question about why can't I just pay the difference, I believe the reason is that if they just allowed people to pay the difference it would mean everyone would simply travel on an expired railcard.

 

[WesternLancer]

The problem here is mismatch between passengers expectations of the consequences of making what they see as an honest mistake and the tone of the formal letter that subsequently gets sent to them.

This is clearly not helped if they were told on the train that they would be allowed to ‘pay the difference’ in fare as the op reported.

We know that presumably never happens in these sorts of situations but if staff say that to people when they report the ticket irregularity you can see how people might react on receipt of a letter like the one uploaded which is Chilterns standard letter for any irregularity I assume. We’ve certainly seen it several times before.

However I realise this isn’t much practical help going forwards.

 

[Trainlinefool]

How long ago had the railcard expired and how many bookings had you travelled on since then? Chiltern will audit your ticket purchasing accounts and will want the fares due if they find other occasions too.

Did you send the email? If you have, I’m afraid it’s quite damaging and you need to retract it; you’ve committed a criminal offence of strict liability, like speeding or driving without insurance, and responding in the manner of your email is very unwise. Chiltern will prosecute you (and will win) unless you:

- apologise for travelling with an invalid ticket
- offer to pay the outstanding fare/s
- say you have learned from the exoerience
- and commit not to do it again

After this they usually settle out of court for the fare due plus an administration fee of £100-150 or so.

Bylaw 18 refers:

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas​

1. in any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel

No intent need be proven. The offence was complete the moment you boarded the train.

Thank you for your reply.

I don’t know when the Railcard expired. That’s the point, I didn’t realise it had.

I didn’t mean to commit any offence! I didn’t know I was committing an offence! I’ve checked my travel on Trainline and where I’ve travelled before 10am, those tickets are fine as the Railcard isn’t applied anyway.

But I don’t know when it expired as the old Railcard disappears from the app, so I have no idea when it ran out.

I just want to sort this out. I’m really really shocked and upset. To issue a prosecution notice is a horrid thing to do! I’m in my 50s, have always travelled with a ticket. Most of my journeys (when I do travel, which is ad hoc), I believe the Railcard isn’t applied as it’s Peak hours.

I do feel this is an awful heavy handed way to treat someone! This is the first time anything like this has happened and I’m extremely distressed and upset by it. I earn minimum wage and I’m really scared.

You have the right to appeal a parking ticket and speak to a Clerk to settle the dispute and pay. Will I be afforded that? Do I need a solicitor? Can I pay on a payment plan?

 

[Trainlinefool]

Just to add to those saying that sending the letter was very ill-advised, we did see a case recently where somebody sent a similarly aggressive response back and unsurprisingly the rail company dug its heels in and refused to offer a settlement.

IIRC that was only resolved when they engaged the services of a specialist solicitor who turned things around, but presumably at significant cost in terms of legal fees.

Chiltern’s letter was aggressive and upsetting! I was (am) extremely shocked! What is the IIRC?

 

[Trainlinefool]

The problem here is mismatch between passengers expectations of the consequences of making what they see as an honest mistake and the tone of the formal letter that subsequently gets sent to them.

This is clearly not helped if they were told on the train that they would be allowed to ‘pay the difference’ in fare as the op reported.

We know that presumably never happens in these sorts of situations but if staff say that to people when they report the ticket irregularity you can see how people might react on receipt of a letter like the one uploaded which is Chilterns standard letter for any irregularity I assume. We’ve certainly seen it several times before.

However I realise this isn’t much practical help going forwards.

Thank you for your understanding. That’s exactly what’s happened. I don’t understand why the Conductor didn’t inform me what was happening. Or that I’m not allowed to pay the difference in the ticket. I feel extremely upset, shocked and confused.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

In answer to the question about why can't I just pay the difference, I believe the reason is that if they just allowed people to pay the difference it would mean everyone would simply travel on an expired railcard.

That doesn’t make sense? I’m never going to travel on an expired card again! I probably won’t renew the damn Railcard again if this is what happens to unwary passengers. For a first offence, surely Chiltern can exercise discretion, issue a warning, ask for whatever costs are outstanding and keep my details on file for whatever period so if it happens again, additional measures are taken? No wonder the Justice system is on its needs if organisations believe crime & punishment is a good option.

 

[Haywain]

That’s exactly what’s happened. I don’t understand why the Conductor didn’t inform me what was happening. Or that I’m not allowed to pay the difference in the ticket. I feel extremely upset, shocked and confused.

The Terms & Conditions cover what happens in the event of not being able to show a valid railcard:

the Train Company reserves the right to charge you the full price for the single fare applicable to your journey, as if no ticket had been purchased before starting the journey.

 

[Trainlinefool]

The Terms & Conditions cover what happens in the event of not being able to show a valid railcard:

Absolutely get this. So I’d like to be able to resolve this and pay whatever I owe. I’m put off travelling by train ever again.

 

[AndroidBango]

Chiltern’s letter was aggressive and upsetting! I was (am) extremely shocked! What is the IIRC?

IIRC = if I recall correctly.

This is the standard letter Chiltern will send out on these occasions.

 

[AlterEgo]

But I don’t know when it expired as the old Railcard disappears from the app, so I have no idea when it ran out.

Railcards expire after a year (or three, depending on the railcard), so if you can find this out by checking your purchase history/bank statements/emails. Chiltern will ask for your railcard history if they are minded to settle.

I do feel this is an awful heavy handed way to treat someone! This is the first time anything like this has happened and I’m extremely distressed and upset by it. I earn minimum wage and I’m really scared.

We aren't here to defend train companies, and frankly I find it perverse, the way they treat some travel irregularities. But an obsequious letter usually sets things right, and I'm afraid it is what it is.

You have the right to appeal a parking ticket and speak to a Clerk to settle the dispute and pay. Will I be afforded that? Do I need a solicitor? Can I pay on a payment plan?

This is not a civil matter, so it's not like a parking ticket. Penalty Fares are more like parking tickets. However, as this is a criminal matter you have no right of *appeal* against the company's decision; they retain the right to prosecute you for the offence, and you are guilty of it.

A solicitor will be unnecessarily expensive - something like £500 to £1000 - and these matters can be resolved by you writing to the company (note it's not an "appeal" but rather a letter you need to write to explain why you shouldn't be prosecuted). The path now is as I stated in Post 7. We need to know if you've sent that email to them or not, because you will need the forum's help in drafting a reply either way.

Out of court settlements usually do not come with a payment plan; the company has six months from the date of the offence to lay papers so they are quite time-pressured to get the matter resolved (if you don't pay the instalments, they lose the right to prosecute you after six months anyway, so where is the "stick" for them to enforce compliance?".

 

[John R]

Chiltern’s letter was aggressive and upsetting! I was (am) extremely shocked! What is the IIRC?

Apologies, it stands for “If I recall correctly.”

The difference is that Chiltern holds all the cards, as you (albeit unwittingly) broke the law, and it can (and will) prosecute you unless it is persuaded that you are contrite for your oversight. Your reply is unlikely to leave them with that view, and as such was ill advised.

(Think of it a bit like being stopped for speeding because you were over the limit because you didn’t notice the change of speed limit sign and then ranting at the police that it wasn’t your fault that the sign wasn’t any bigger and they should be out catching real criminals. That scenario would be unlikely to end well.)

 

[Trainlinefool]

Railcards expire after a year (or three, depending on the railcard), so if you can find this out by checking your purchase history/bank statements/emails. Chiltern will ask for your railcard history if they are minded to settle.


We aren't here to defend train companies, and frankly I find it perverse, the way they treat some travel irregularities. But an obsequious letter usually sets things right, and I'm afraid it is what it is.


This is not a civil matter, so it's not like a parking ticket. Penalty Fares are more like parking tickets. However, as this is a criminal matter you have no right of *appeal* against the company's decision; they retain the right to prosecute you for the offence, and you are guilty of it.

A solicitor will be unnecessarily expensive - something like £500 to £1000 - and these matters can be resolved by you writing to the company (note it's not an "appeal" but rather a letter you need to write to explain why you shouldn't be prosecuted). The path now is as I stated in Post 7. We need to know if you've sent that email to them or not, because you will need the forum's help in drafting a reply either way.

Out of court settlements usually do not come with a payment plan; the company has six months from the date of the offence to lay papers so they are quite time-pressured to get the matter resolved (if you don't pay the instalments, they lose the right to prosecute you after six months anyway, so where is the "stick" for them to enforce compliance?".

Yes, I sent the email in reply to them. I didn’t know the letter was about a Strict Liability Offence. I didn’t realise this wasn’t a civil matter as you put it. Hells teeth this is a nightmare.

Yes, I sent the email in reply to them. I didn’t know the letter was about a Strict Liability Offence. I didn’t realise this wasn’t a civil matter as you put it. Hells teeth this is a nightmare.

I’ve not bought a Railcard for 35 years! Only reason why I did was because the app said it was a good idea. Now it turns out there are restrictions on Chiltern’s acceptance of the Railcard but it doesn’t say what the restrictions are. Wish I’d never bought the stupid thing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

Apologies, it stands for “If I recall correctly.”

The difference is that Chiltern holds all the cards, as you (albeit unwittingly) broke the law, and it can (and will) prosecute you unless it is persuaded that you are contrite for your oversight. Your reply is unlikely to leave them with that view, and as such was ill advised.

(Think of it a bit like being stopped for speeding because you were over the limit because you didn’t notice the change of speed limit sign and then ranting at the police that it wasn’t your fault that the sign wasn’t any bigger and they should be out catching real criminals. That scenario would be unlikely to end well.)

OK, that helps to frame it. Thank you. What do I do now? I feel so stressed I just want to sort it out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

The Terms & Conditions cover what happens in the event of not being able to show a valid railcard:

I understand that. Completely. Why can’t I pay whatever is owed. I appreciate the mistake and I want to resolve it.

 

[island]

I understand that. Completely. Why can’t I pay whatever is owed. I appreciate the mistake and I want to resolve it.

You possibly could have done that if your reply had been rather substantially different to what you set out in post 1. Your aggressive and accusatory tone email, in all likelihood, result in your case being escalated to Magistrates Court, without further reference to you.

I think the only step forward now that has a chance of keeping the matter out of court would be to send a grovelling email before the end of tomorrow – so that it is with the prosecutors by the time they get back to work on Tuesday – replete with profuse apologies for your tone, stating that having taken advice you now understand the seriousness of your situation, and asking whether there might still be the possibility of settling the matter by paying the unpaid fare and their administrative fees in the matter.

 

[Hadders]

The email has already gone. Their letter was so shocking. I don’t understand why they’re taking me to court! I’ve renewed my Railcard. It was an oversight. I understand I need to pay the difference on the fare. Why can’t I pay the difference? I don’t understand why they’re taking this action! It’s absolutely horrific!

Chiltern aren't prosecuting you - yet.

What's happened is that you've been caught travelling with an invalid ticket. However unitientional it was this is a criminal offence and Chiltern are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to.

Chiltern have written to you asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. The letter does use quite threatening language but I suspect this is deliberate on their part to make sure people take it seriously. Chiltern will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. This normally costs the outstanding fare plus an admin fee, typically £150 and is the outcome I would normally expect to see if this case.

The problem you've got is the email you've sent isn't really worded suitably to gain the best chance of an out of court settlement. It's your responsibility to make sure your tickets are valid before you commence your journey and while the sequence of events you've described is unfortunate it doesn't change your responsibility. I agree witrh @island that the best way to try and obtain an out of court settlement from Chiltern is to send a further email by the end of tomorrow, this time using more contrite language and perhaps adding that you have reflected and researched the situation since you sent your initial reply.

I strongly suggest you put the draft wording into this thread so that we can proof read it for you and suggest alterations to obtain a favourabkle outcome.

 

[Eyersey468]

@Trainlinefool apologies if I confused you. What I meant was if the train companies only ever just let people pay the difference in fares without any penalty it means everyone would buy incorrect tickets, travel on expired railcards etc as there wouldn't be an incentive not to. I know yours was a genuine error, nor am I trying to defend the train companies.

 

[30907]

Where is my name visible

It isn't, the name someone has spotted is that of the person you mailed.

To issue a prosecution notice is a horrid thing to do! I’m in my 50s...Most of my journeys (when I do travel, which is ad hoc), I believe the Railcard isn’t applied as it’s Peak hours.

Could you confirm which Railcard you used and what the journey was?

 

[Trainlinefool]

It isn't, the name someone has spotted is that of the person you mailed.

Could you confirm which Railcard you used and what the journey was?

The only Railcard I have is a National Railcard for journeys into London.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

The only Railcard I have is a National Railcard for journeys into London.

@Trainlinefool apologies if I confused you. What I meant was if the train companies only ever just let people pay the difference in fares without any penalty it means everyone would buy incorrect tickets, travel on expired railcards etc as there wouldn't be an incentive not to. I know yours was a genuine error, nor am I trying to defend the train companies.

Completely understand. I’m just really shocked and upset they’ve taken this approach.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2025 ==

It isn't, the name someone has spotted is that of the person you mailed.

Could you confirm which Railcard you used and what the journey was?

It was a Leamington Spa to Marylebone day return journey travelling off peak I think.

 

[John R]

There is no such thing as a “National Railcard”. Maybe it was a “Network Railcard”?

 

[Trainlinefool]

Chiltern aren't prosecuting you - yet.

What's happened is that you've been caught travelling with an invalid ticket. However unitientional it was this is a criminal offence and Chiltern are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to.

Chiltern have written to you asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. The letter does use quite threatening language but I suspect this is deliberate on their part to make sure people take it seriously. Chiltern will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. This normally costs the outstanding fare plus an admin fee, typically £150 and is the outcome I would normally expect to see if this case.

The problem you've got is the email you've sent isn't really worded suitably to gain the best chance of an out of court settlement. It's your responsibility to make sure your tickets are valid before you commence your journey and while the sequence of events you've described is unfortunate it doesn't change your responsibility. I agree witrh @island that the best way to try and obtain an out of court settlement from Chiltern is to send a further email by the end of tomorrow, this time using more contrite language and perhaps adding that you have reflected and researched the situation since you sent your initial reply.

I strongly suggest you put the draft wording into this thread so that we can proof read it for you and suggest alterations to obtain a favourabkle outcome.

Chiltern’s letter isn’t asking for my version of events. It’s asking me to produce a valid Railcard and informing me of their intention to prosecute? I was asking

There is no such thing as a “National Railcard”. Maybe it was a “Network Railcard”?

Apologies. Network Railcard. That’s the one I have.

 

[Gloster]

Does the Network Railcard extend out to Leamington Spa? My understanding is that Banbury is the limit.

 

[John R]

It asks you to produce a valid railcard if you hold one (you didn’t ), to cover situations where people forgot their Railcard. In that sense that wording is standard wording that doesn’t apply to you.

It then goes on to ask if there is anything you want to say in mitigation, which is your opportunity to apologise, promise not to do it again, etc etc.

 

[island]

Does the Network Railcard extend out to Leamington Spa? My understanding is that Banbury is the limit.

I believe you are correct. A Gold Card goes further.

 

[Hadders]

Chiltern’s letter isn’t asking for my version of events. It’s asking me to produce a valid Railcard and informing me of their intention to prosecute? I was asking

The letter is asking you to provide any mitigation you want them to take into account.