Extension of Midland Metro given go-ahead

[Class172]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-17064263

 

[Ivo]

Excellent news.

Are there any street maps available that accurately portray the route, including extra stops at all?

 

[Class172]

Midlands Today areticle on now.

This looks like the map they showed on the report a few minutes ago.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So, how much are they going to charge for a single from Snow Hill to New Street? £7? £8? :roll:

Anyway, good to see. Aside from the extension up to Dudley, are there any more plans for the Midland Metro?

 

[sprinterguy]

I thought the extension already had been approved, some time ago? I would have hoped so as they're already about to start digging test boreholes along Corporation Street, which I presume is the reason for all the brightly coloured arrows and numbering that has sprung up on the pavements around the junction between Bull Street and Corporation Street.

This video gives an excellent overview of the planned extension:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlfnN55nHaE

 

[Class172]

Thanks for the video link — I like how they show their aspirations for New St.

 

[dvboy]

I thought the extension already had been approved, some time ago? I would have hoped so as they're already about to start digging test boreholes along Corporation Street, which I presume is the reason for all the brightly coloured arrows and numbering that has sprung up on the pavements around the junction between Bull Street and Corporation Street.

That's what I thought too with the works that have started at the side of Snow Hill station and on Stevenson Street where there is a big sign to say the work there is to bring the Metro to New Street!

 

[Badger]

So, how much are they going to charge for a single from Snow Hill to New Street? £7? £8? :roll:

Anyway, good to see. Aside from the extension up to Dudley, are there any more plans for the Midland Metro?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Metro#Proposed_extensions

Birmingham to Fiveways
Birmingham to BHX (A45 corridor)
Birmingham to BHX (A47 corridor)
Wolverhampton City Centre Loop (to WH Railway Station)
Birmingham to Great Barr (A34 corridor)
Birmingham to Quinton (extension of the Fiveways route)
Wolverhampton to Wednesbury (Wolverhampton and Walsall Railway (not Wolverhampton to Walsall Line))

Some councillors have said they'd prefer Birmingham to BHX to be a raised monorail.

 

[MetroDriver]

This recent news item was just to confirm that the funding has actually been handed over to Centro so that they can kick-start the full works. The extension was already confirmed but awaiting the money in the bank....

Our depot is soon to undergo a transformation to deal with the new tram fleet, and bus routes are about to move away from Corporation St / Bull St in readiness for works to start on the infrastructure for our tracks to be laid.
Still waiting to hear that the contracts have been signed with CAF to build our new fleet - expecting an announcement very soon on that. Until pen meets paper, they are only the 'prefered bidder'.

I've attached a pdf map showing the planned locations for the new tram stops once the extension opens. The current Snow Hill terminus is to be handed back to Network Rail after we pinched it from them in 1998-ish.... The new stop at Snow Hill will be adjacent to the new entrance they opened last year.

 

[317 forever]

This recent news item was just to confirm that the funding has actually been handed over to Centro so that they can kick-start the full works. The extension was already confirmed but awaiting the money in the bank....

Our depot is soon to undergo a transformation to deal with the new tram fleet, and bus routes are about to move away from Corporation St / Bull St in readiness for works to start on the infrastructure for our tracks to be laid.
Still waiting to hear that the contracts have been signed with CAF to build our new fleet - expecting an announcement very soon on that. Until pen meets paper, they are only the 'prefered bidder'.

I've attached a pdf map showing the planned locations for the new tram stops once the extension opens. The current Snow Hill terminus is to be handed back to Network Rail after we pinched it from them in 1998-ish.... The new stop at Snow Hill will be adjacent to the new entrance they opened last year.

I have seen the proposals to reroute the buses away from Corporation Street by August to enable the extension to the Metro to be built. I reckon these changes are permanent, and that buses will not return to Corporation Street as trams will be two-way.

 

[MetroDriver]

Permanent yes.... and no bad thing if you've seen the congestion taking place on a daily basis. Ever since the road layout was changed it was meant to be buses / taxis / delivery vehicles only - yet every hour you'll see private cars going down. I am of an age to remember New Street before it was pedestrianised, and the smells and sights of many buses trying to get along that street will haunt my memory. Once the tram extension is up and running, Bull Street and Corporation Street should be a pleasant place to walk again...

All we'll have to do as the tram operator is ensure pedestrian awareness so we don't end up having too many near-misses

 

[dvboy]

Before the tram is put in, the direction of travel along Corporation Street is going to be reversed, and Moor St turned back into a two-way road.

 

[MetroDriver]

That flow reversal only affects the small section of Corporation St between Bull St and Priory Queensway. When it will happen is the subject of current decisions about planned sewerage work that has to take place in the same location and before any work can start on the Metro infrastructure etc..

All in the Centro meeting agenda attached (map on page 12)

 

[daniel3982]

Seems a bit silly not to include the future site of Curzon St HST station in the route.

 

[Badger]

Already served via >6tph from Snow Hill technically. Birmingham HS is pretty much a Moor Street extension.

 

[dvboy]

Seems a bit silly not to include the future site of Curzon St HST station in the route.

I suppose it could have crossed Colmore Square then gone along Priory Qwy, Moor St Qwy, St Martin's Qwy under the Bullring to the present front of New St station. You could have stops at Colmore Sq, Priory Qwy, Moor St/Curzon St stns and New St stn.

Done right it would be a good link between New St and Moor St/Curzon St. You still have scope for future extension to Five Ways and beyond via a raised track along Smallbrook Qwy and over Holloway Circus onto Holloway Head and Bath Row.

 

[MetroDriver]

Sadly, as is well documented, any additional city street running sections to our system run into far too many obstacles thanks to the lack of forward planning / foresight by previous city planners. There are far too many underground services which would have to be moved etc - putting costs up well beyond anything Centro see as likely to succeed....

Currently the ONLY part that has been made easier is Broad Street itself, when work was done allowing for the "possibility" of any tram running. However the budget simply doesn't allow for anything other than New Street for now.

Once we are up and running in 2015, the hope is that an increase in tram awareness and footfall will bring in enough revenue to justify future planed extensions! Birmingham International Airport is a big potential revenue earner, with the NEC and Arena next door too, and seems the most talked about currently.

Merry Hill seems to run into far too many problems to be viable, which is a pity but we have to wait and see.

 

[dvboy]

Personally I think it's daft to be running the Metro to places that already have rail connections, like the Airport, which is one of the reasons the existing line has never been profitable because no-one makes end-to-end journeys on it, and they won't to the Airport either.

 

[MetroDriver]

one of the reasons the existing line has never been profitable because no-one makes end-to-end journeys on it.

I would love to know the direct source of that piece of information please?

I have had access to Centro's own set of figures produced from their frequent surveys as well as known information from our ticket machine downloads.... neither of which tallies with your statement above!

Are you actually aware of the financial reasons for the immeadiate loss that Metro was making from the start?

 

[dvboy]

OK maybe not no-one but I'd be interested to see the figures. When the train has always been cheaper and quicker you'd have to be a fool to take the tram end-to-end.

 

[MetroDriver]

dvboy: The figures I refer to are company business, not for public I'm afraid. I do check my facts before posting on here as I obviously work for them and not about to cause them any problems....

Calling passengers who travel on our entire journey "fools" is hardly a clever statement to make now is it? You are obviously not an ardent fan of the Metro, which makes me question your motivation for even posting on here when you cannot even state the correct information?

Sorry but if you must continue to post in that manner you'll find no further forum assistance from me. I had assumed that anything I am able to speak of from working for Metro might be of use in here......

 

[dvboy]

I'm not accusing you of lying; if the figures disagree with me then fair enough but sadly that's the growing perception many people have of the Metro over the years it has been in operation. I'm not wrong in saying it's never been profitable, have I?

The metro has its problems - the trams are too small, the fares are expensive, it is only the one route - but that doesn't stop me from using it where it is appropriate to do so. I'm actually looking forward to the extension and the new trams.

Calling a passenger who travels the current length end-to-end a fool for doing so is my opinion - i'm entitled to that, aren't I? Granted there will always be passengers on Metro and Bus+Metro day and season tickets who will do this, but I was specifically thinking about single and return journeys where there is an obvious advantage in both cost and time by taking the train.

Sorry if you felt I was personally attacking you and the company you work for - I know I feel the same way when people quote inaccuracies about my employers (and this happens daily) - but it certainly wasn't my intention.

 

[kylemore]

Sadly, as is well documented, any additional city street running sections to our system run into far too many obstacles thanks to the lack of forward planning / foresight by previous city planners. There are far too many underground services which would have to be moved etc - putting costs up well beyond anything Centro see as likely to succeed....

Currently the ONLY part that has been made easier is Broad Street itself, when work was done allowing for the "possibility" of any tram running. However the budget simply doesn't allow for anything other than New Street for now.

Once we are up and running in 2015, the hope is that an increase in tram awareness and footfall will bring in enough revenue to justify future planed extensions! Birmingham International Airport is a big potential revenue earner, with the NEC and Arena next door too, and seems the most talked about currently.

Merry Hill seems to run into far too many problems to be viable, which is a pity but we have to wait and see.

This is what 'done for' the Edinburgh Trams, what had to be done to the utilities and how much it would cost were seriously under-estimated by a largely incompetent local authority with the result that the existing budget could never build the whole line. The council and their proxies made the assumption that "not a penny more" from the Govt meant actually spend enough of the budget and the govt will be forced to cough up more cash to avoid embarassment all round, and indeed if the Lab/Lib coalition had remained in power in Scotland that is exactly what would have happened!
The result is that only a vastly uneconomic "Rump" system will be completed - a financial millstone round Edinburgh's neck until even more money can be found for extensions.
Hopefully more competent people are handling your extension!

 

[MetroDriver]

Right then, couple of responses from me again: (don't duck for cover:roll

dvboy:
Ok, so personal offence taken, but I am quite defensive over bad representation of our system, and take any bait easily....
It is well known now that Centro may have made a few errors of judgement when dealing with the initial consortium who constructed the entire system. Having a restricted budget meant that we got 'cheap' trams (cheap at £1,000,000 each....lol) and infrastructure components that were surplus to other's requirements (and that is putting it politely and discreetly of course). Estimated passenger figures were woefully over-estimated in the beginning, and costs once opened spiralled when it hit problems with reliabilty / obtaining spares / thefts from the system. The system ran at a huge loss for the initial years, until becoming part of Travel West Midlands, and then National Express. Now we run on an even financial keel (on paper anyway) as revenue + subsidies juggled around within National Express keep it all going.
In recent years we've acheived some remarkable reliability and punctuality figures of just over 99% which sounds high but they are calculated on 'lost journeys' which means if we can't run a tram on a particular timetabled run from say Wolverhampton to Birmingham or vice versa - then we 'lost a journey'. Rarely does that happen, and in recent years the trams have got more reliable- we see that each and every day. The odd technical glitch can and does happen to any tram system - but we underwent a rethink on how many trams we had available ages ago so now at least we usually have a spare to swap any problem tram with - hence no lost journey syndrome!
Tram size has become a victim of it's own success ironically - yes they ordered the cheaper and shorter option when they could have had a much longer middle section built, but lessons have been learnt. Even we were shocked when our then General Manager was publically calling the trams 'crap' to the media
Our on-site engineers have managed to sort out the spares situation on the whole - with local firms making parts we could not get from Italy anymore, and we have two 'dead' trams as spares sources to keep us going for now.

kylemore:
I've been watching developments in Edinburgh for a while now, and it makes our intial problems look small in comparison. It could be easy to look back and say we had the same, but looking at it in detail, Edinburgh seem to have magnified any issues we had and made, as you say, a "millstone around their neck"' so far... I'm not into politics to be fair, and seeing the mess they can make it suits me to stay well out of that!

It has to be said that this time around, Centro seem to have approached this extension much more sensibly and thoroughly - which has taken a very long time to do, and left uncertainity in it's wake thanks to those politics...... BUT - there will be no going back to their days of old when they misjudged budgets and purchased untried and un-tested trams. It's going to be a leap in technology for us, the engineers, and the passengers when we see the proposed Urbos 3's arrive - and it is refreshing to see from an insider's perspective how all the development of the project has been going too....
I don't think there will be much to compare between Edinburgh and Midland Metro apart from the common tram maker of course..

 

[MetroDriver]

Might be of interest to some, work has started within the existing depot at Wednesbury to expand the site in readiness for the new tram fleet. Comparing publicly available planning application drawings with a snapshot from Google Satellite view shows just how extensive the construction work is going to be!

 

[MetroDriver]

Confirmation that we're getting 25 CAF Urbos 3 trams as the contracts have now been signed - it's all go now

http://www.centro.org.uk/newsroom/PressReleases/PressRelease29790.aspx

The preferred bidder for the city centre extension work is Balfour Beatty:

http://www.centro.org.uk/newsroom/PressReleases/PressRelease30002.aspx

and the depot expansion is already being undertaken by Morgan Sindall.

 

[Badger]

They're still using "up to" 25... I wish they'd make their mind up.

Great that it's formally signed though.

 

[WatcherZero]

I guess its something like 16 (not sure on exact number) with options for upto 25 for extensions?

 

[sprinterguy]

I guess its something like 16 (not sure on exact number) with options for upto 25 for extensions?

It's 19 trams agreed for definite (or it might be up to twenty now, one source concurrent with the announcing of this latest part of the deal did say 20), with a further option to take the total up to 25.

I can't work out what the purpose of the additional trams option is though: If 19 vehicles are sufficient to work the extended route at the increased six minute peak frequency then I really can't see what benefit ordering twenty five will bring: The development of the Midland Metro hasn't exactly been trail-blazing so far.

 

[Badger]

A £30 million proposal to extend the Midland Metro tram line in Wolverhampton has been revived, transport bosses revealed today.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/05/02/30m-midland-metro-extension-plan-revived/

"A first phase of the extension will join up the existing St George’s tram stop in Bilston street with Wolverhampton rail station and is expected to take place before 2015."

Interestingly the map shows the line carry on past the railway station for a fair distance - presumably the beginning of the 5W line.