eye advice

[norfolkjohn]

I am new to this forum and would like a bit of advice. I am awaiting a date for my medical for a trainee train driver. I thought it would be a formality but after reading this forum and I am a worried. About five years ago I had laser eye surgery, my eyesight is now superb and I suffer no side effects. Looking on the forum gives contradicting info whether laser surgery is acceptable. Looking at the recent rail guidelines it states certain procedures are now acceptable. My dilemma is should I contact my TOC to see if it acceptable or wait to see if I am asked at the medical. My thought is if asked reveal or if not keep quiet. Any advice would be appreciated. thanks

 

[A-driver]

To be honest I'd keep quiet about it. Generally you can not become a train driver if you have had laser eye surgery but a few TOCs now do have a few exceptions (although I don't know what they are or anything about them).

If you can pass the eye test then nothing more will be said about it.

There are one or two drivers out there who have had laser surgery and kept quiet about it so if I were you I'd be tempted to do the same so as not to rock the boat.

Saying that I don't normally condone this type of thing!

 

[SPADTrap]

I'm sure I read somewhere on one of the applications I've filled in where it specifically stated that you must not have had laser eye surgery. It's a tough one having come as far as the medical but if it is found out and it stated so at the initial application it will go against you? I wish you the best of luck however!

 

[Dave1987]

I am new to this forum and would like a bit of advice. I am awaiting a date for my medical for a trainee train driver. I thought it would be a formality but after reading this forum and I am a worried. About five years ago I had laser eye surgery, my eyesight is now superb and I suffer no side effects. Looking on the forum gives contradicting info whether laser surgery is acceptable. Looking at the recent rail guidelines it states certain procedures are now acceptable. My dilemma is should I contact my TOC to see if it acceptable or wait to see if I am asked at the medical. My thought is if asked reveal or if not keep quiet. Any advice would be appreciated. thanks

There is contradictory medical evidence that laser eye surgery can cause your colour vision to be impaired or at least that is what our DM's have told some of my colleagues who have asked about laser eye surgery. Don't know whether or not it will show up on your medical records? I really don't know how you would play that one as if you did have a spad in the future and they found out that you had had laser eye surgery and didn't tell them it could cause a lot of issues....

 

[SPADTrap]

There is contradictory medical evidence that laser eye surgery can cause your colour vision to be impaired or at least that is what our DM's have told some of my colleagues who have asked about laser eye surgery. Don't know whether or not it will show up on your medical records? I really don't know how you would play that one as if you did have a spad in the future and they found out that you had had laser eye surgery and didn't tell them it could cause a lot of issues....

Dave raises a good point actually, I've seen something very similar to this but in the aviation industry, it never ends well!

 

[455driver]

If you dont tell them and they find out later you will probably lose your job and the fact that you have signed an application form asking if you have had laser eye surgery and have stated "no"(I think they all ask it now) then there is a small chance that the TOC may attempt to recover their costs (for the tests/training etc) from you.

If it isnt on the form then you have done nothing wrong but if they ask you then you MUST be honest.

I believe the issues as stated are colour perception and peripheral vision issues.

 

[MrC]

There is contradictory medical evidence that laser eye surgery can cause your colour vision to be impaired or at least that is what our DM's have told some of my colleagues who have asked about laser eye surgery. Don't know whether or not it will show up on your medical records? I really don't know how you would play that one as if you did have a spad in the future and they found out that you had had laser eye surgery and didn't tell them it could cause a lot of issues....

There's also the potential legal issue if the ORR or a legal team got involved in an incident and discovered a driver who was involved (and whether responsible or not) had lied about having such surgery. OK, it's very very unlikely but the risk is there.

There are moves afoot at some operating companies to relax the restrictions on some forms of eye surgery so if it was me I'd come clean and hope they treat the case on it's merits. I'd hate to get all the way through and then go through my driving career with a lie like that hanging over me waiting to be discovered ('cos it will at some point!!)

See also this link on the RGS website (dated 2005) which gives a lot more background info on the RSSB guidance.

 

[Beveridges]

They don't check your Medical Record when you have a medical so if you state you didnt have laser eye surgery they will not find out and you will get the job. However if after getting the job you caused an incident to happen that is serious enough for the company to check your medical records (dont know how serious it has to be for this check to be carried out??? assume its very rare?) then this is where you could be in some serious bother.

 

[Wath Yard]

He didn't indicate he intends to lie. He said he is thinking of admitting he had surgery if asked but not volunteering the information if not asked. If someone isn't asked about it then that seems like a fairly sensible strategy as surely it is the TOC's responsibility and in their interests to discover if a prospective employee is incapable of doing the job and you wouldn't expect every prospective employee to automatically know it is relevant.

However, as he does know it is relevant then the most sensible option would be to contact the TOC and ask as there is no point spending time and effort on a job application that has no chance of succeeding.

 

[SPADTrap]

He didn't indicate he intends to lie. He said he is thinking of admitting he had surgery if asked but not volunteering the information if not asked. If someone isn't asked about it then that seems like a fairly sensible strategy as surely it is the TOC's responsibility and in their interests to discover if a prospective employee is incapable of doing the job and you wouldn't expect every prospective employee to automatically know it is relevant.

However, as he does know it is relevant then the most sensible option would be to contact the TOC and ask as there is no point spending time and effort on a job application that has no chance of succeeding.

Pretty sure it is on the application form. I know it is for GA and FCC and Southern.

 

[Dave1987]

He didn't indicate he intends to lie. He said he is thinking of admitting he had surgery if asked but not volunteering the information if not asked. If someone isn't asked about it then that seems like a fairly sensible strategy as surely it is the TOC's responsibility and in their interests to discover if a prospective employee is incapable of doing the job and you wouldn't expect every prospective employee to automatically know it is relevant.

However, as he does know it is relevant then the most sensible option would be to contact the TOC and ask as there is no point spending time and effort on a job application that has no chance of succeeding.

Indeed I agree with this rhetoric. Telling them is probably the best move as you never know they might offer you a different position in a none driving role if you still want to join the railways. Of course that isn't certain.

 

[Beveridges]

Or as I stated above, you could keep it quiet, which will probably lead to getting the Drivers job. The risk would be if you had a serious incident after starting the job then the company might check your medical record.
As far as I know if a company does not allow you to drive if you stated you had laser eye surgery, then they won't let you perform any other safety critical work, so that means there are very limited alternative roles that could be offered even if they were to offer an alternative role.

 

[norfolkjohn]

Thanks for your replies, I have viewed the initial application form and there is nothing relating to eye surgery and nothing on their website. I don't intend to be dishonest if I pass the medical and I am asked then I will be truthful and hopefully they will sympathetic. If they don't ask then I think it's fair to think it is not an issue. The only reason I know it could be an issue is by viewing this website. My gut feeling though is I will be asked. I just wished it was stipulation from the start like colour blindness but may there is a bit of le way. ? fingers crossed.

 

[142094]

Northern used to explicitly state that they would not consider applications from those who had undergone laser surgery - may well still be the case.

 

[Dave1987]

Thanks for your replies, I have viewed the initial application form and there is nothing relating to eye surgery and nothing on their website. I don't intend to be dishonest if I pass the medical and I am asked then I will be truthful and hopefully they will sympathetic. If they don't ask then I think it's fair to think it is not an issue. The only reason I know it could be an issue is by viewing this website. My gut feeling though is I will be asked. I just wished it was stipulation from the start like colour blindness but may there is a bit of le way. ? fingers crossed.

Sorry but I don't think they offer any le way when it comes to colour perception from laser surgery as they take the view that you are not safe to drive. There have been far too many SPAD's where the driver was convinced that he/she saw a single yellow which was actually a red.

 

[TDK]

I am new to this forum and would like a bit of advice. I am awaiting a date for my medical for a trainee train driver. I thought it would be a formality but after reading this forum and I am a worried. About five years ago I had laser eye surgery, my eyesight is now superb and I suffer no side effects. Looking on the forum gives contradicting info whether laser surgery is acceptable. Looking at the recent rail guidelines it states certain procedures are now acceptable. My dilemma is should I contact my TOC to see if it acceptable or wait to see if I am asked at the medical. My thought is if asked reveal or if not keep quiet. Any advice would be appreciated. thanks

You will most likely be asked this question at interview and your medical records can be cheacked at medical stage, do not take the advice of some on this forum and not addmitting this as this will and I quote will get you in serious trouble however if you were not asked at interview and it was not on the application form you wouldn't know would you!. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but unless the policies of the TOC's have changed you will not get a drivers or a guards job if you have had laser eye surgery. I did hear a while back that some TOC's were looking into the evidence on laser surgery but didn't hear anything else after that!

 

[mrc69]

This is my understanding, laser eye surgery is not encouraged but acceptable subject to further tests. Below is a direct copy from South West Trains safety critical roles requirements;-
Applicants who have previously undergone laser surgery will be subject to additional investigations before fitness to drive trains can be confirmed.

This also matches the latest guidelines from Railway Group Standards which tend to be followed by Toc's.

Make sure you declare it if asked. Given that airline and airforce pilots are now allowed to have surgery I can't see there being a problem. Good Luck

 

[Dave1987]

This is my understanding, laser eye surgery is not encouraged but acceptable subject to further tests. Below is a direct copy from South West Trains safety critical roles requirements;-
Applicants who have previously undergone laser surgery will be subject to additional investigations before fitness to drive trains can be confirmed.

This also matches the latest guidelines from Railway Group Standards which tend to be followed by Toc's.

Make sure you declare it if asked. Given that airline and airforce pilots are now allowed to have surgery I can't see there being a problem. Good Luck

Sorry I totally disagree with it not being a problem I'm afraid! Current drivers have been told they cannot have laser eye surgery due to risks associated with colour perception. Until there is clear none contradictory medical evidence that states colour perception and and peripheral vision are not effective I cannot see TOC allowing people who have had laser eye surgery to drive trains as if a serious incident did occur as a result of a driver having the surgery the press would have a field day with the TOC's.

 

[sw1ller]

http://www.traindriver.org/medical-standards--age-limits.html

this site has helped me. I beleive it depends on what type of laser surgery you had, i think some are ok, some are banned due to the high risk of cataracs ect after ther 10 year mark....... Again, this is just all hear'say

 

[mrc69]

dave, I was trying to give John some encouragement. How do you explain the statement from the South West and also the advice from RGS ?. I have just had a look at numerous toc's websites and there is no mention of eye surgery being a no no. If it was such a black and white area then surely it should be up there with colour blindness and applicants should be left in no doubt at the start of the process.

However why any driver would want to have surgery is beyond me given that there is potential for complications and possible loss of a job.

On a separate note the people who I know who have had laser eye surgery say its the best thing they have had done, I don't know of any who suffer from double vision, colour blindness etc... but anyone who has had it done should have more rigorous checks before they become a driver.

 

[Dave1987]

http://www.traindriver.org/medical-standards--age-limits.html

this site has helped me. I beleive it depends on what type of laser surgery you had, i think some are ok, some are banned due to the high risk of cataracs ect after ther 10 year mark....... Again, this is just all hear'say

The document states TOCs might be allowed to let drivers to have laser eye surgery but then be subject to annual examinations of eyesight. Don't think a TOC would risk the expense of training a new driver who has had surgery just incase these potential side effects do happen.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

dave, I was trying to give John some encouragement. How do you explain the statement from the South West and also the advice from RGS ?. I have just had a look at numerous toc's websites and there is no mention of eye surgery being a no no. If it was such a black and white area then surely it should be up there with colour blindness and applicants should be left in no doubt at the start of the process.

However why any driver would want to have surgery is beyond me given that there is potential for complications and possible loss of a job.

On a separate note the people who I know who have had laser eye surgery say its the best thing they have had done, I don't know of any who suffer from double vision, colour blindness etc... but anyone who has had it done should have more rigorous checks before they become a driver.

I know you are but I'm just saying what our DM's have said and they have said laser eye surgery is a big no no, just like you can't where varifocal glasses.

 

[sw1ller]

The document states TOCs might be allowed to let drivers to have laser eye surgery but then be subject to annual examinations of eyesight. Don't think a TOC would risk the expense of training a new driver who has had surgery just incase these potential side effects do happen.
.

that makes a lot of sense actually. If i was putting myself in the employers shoes then i wouldnt want to risk it

 

[MrC]

just like you can't where varifocal glasses.

<Takes off approved varifocal glasses and squints hard at them>

Oh, really?

 

[Dave1987]

<Takes off approved varifocal glasses and squints hard at them>

Oh, really?

Again I have been told if I ever need glasses to get Bifocals as you are not allowed wear verifocals, maybe that is a rule just for my TOC.

 

[TheVicLine]

The medical is a tick the box execise so open to abuse, they will not check you medical records so you have 2 choices:

Declare the laser eye surgery or

Blag it and look over your shoulder for your career and hope the TOC doesn't find out or that there is an accident and the ORR are involved and your medical records are dragged up and you are found liable cos you didn't declare the surgery.

I personaly don't think that the surgery is a major risk but I am not a doctor and and if they ask they are asking for a reason, so probably in the long run it is best to be honest and take the consequences if there are any. Speak to their HR dept.

 

[Beveridges]

The medical is a tick the box execise so open to abuse, they will not check you medical records

This is why it might be a better reason not to declare it. You will probably pass the medical if you don't tick the box (unless something else trips you up like sight/hearing tests etc - unlikely). If you do tick the box you probably will fail the medical and not get the job, maybe never able to go for a safety critical role again until maybe in future if TOCs ever become more relaxed about it.
Now theres always the chance of getting into bother if medical records are checked but I think they'd only ever do this if you had a bad accident resulting in people getting badly injured or killed. But what chance is there of having a bad accident, very unlikely, probably more chance getting killed driving your car to work, and it doesn't stop people doing that does it. Also, if you did cause an accident you'd already be in enough bother as it is, medical records checked or not
As said in a previous post, there are Drivers who have had laser eye surgery and have kept quiet about it

 

[Dave1987]

This is why it might be a better reason not to declare it. You will probably pass the medical if you don't tick the box (unless something else trips you up like sight/hearing tests etc - unlikely). If you do tick the box you probably will fail the medical and not get the job, maybe never able to go for a safety critical role again until maybe in future if TOCs ever become more relaxed about it.
Now theres always the chance of getting into bother if medical records are checked but I think they'd only ever do this if you had a bad accident resulting in people getting badly injured or killed. But what chance is there of having a bad accident, very unlikely, probably more chance getting killed driving your car to work, and it doesn't stop people doing that does it. Also, if you did cause an accident you'd already be in enough bother as it is, medical records checked or not
As said in a previous post, there are Drivers who have had laser eye surgery and have kept quiet about it

Sorry but that is like saying it is ok to drink drive just because you feel ok. I'm not gonna say anything more because I cannot condone lying.

 

[Vicpaul]

Know of a couple of senior drivers that have and multiple laser surgeries. If your sight is improved and there are no factors regarding colour or peripheral vision is there an issue?

If you declare, itll undoubtedly be put on a database for all TOCs to see.

Really is a tough call

 

[455driver]

I have just had a medical (for FGW done through BUPA) and there was a question on the tick box sheet "have you ever had laser eye surgery", seems to answer the OPs question.

 

[Vicpaul]

Lorol ask as do scot rail, at southern I was asked if I wore glasses and the questions stopped there