Face coverings mandatory in shops in Scotland

[talldave]

What's the enforcement like in Scotland? Are shops refusing entry to those without masks?

 

[Bletchleyite]

All the time, forever, even if you don't have a cough or sneeze. Fresh air you say? No, too dangerous, you might kill someone by existing. So hey, why not go the whole hog and just make going outside illegal. Far more effective than cloth over our faces, right?

We sort of did do that - the lockdown. We now want to unlock, so need other mitigations.

 

[talldave]

We sort of did do that - the lockdown. We now want to unlock, so need other mitigations.

The shopping experience has been consistent throughout, nothing is being unlocked, we're having additional unnecessary and pointless requirements imposed.

 

[Richard Scott]

The shopping experience has been consistent throughout, nothing is being unlocked, we're having additional unnecessary and pointless requirements imposed.

The more this goes on the more it feels like imposed communism!

 

[Ian Cunningham]

The shopping experience has been consistent throughout, nothing is being unlocked, we're having additional unnecessary and pointless requirements imposed.

"nothing is being unlocked" is simply not true - non-essential retail is now partly open (and opens fully from tomorrow), pubs, restaurants etc all can open indoors from Wednesday (outdoor is already open) Tourist sites, hotels etc also open again from Wednesday as can houses of worship. Yes there are still restrictions within that and some some things are still closed until at least the end of the month but there is steady progress - this week will see a significant move out of lockdown
A noticeable shift is Lothian Buses returning to a near-normal day service (including rush hour X-services) from today

 

[Yew]

The more this goes on the more it feels like imposed communism!

I feel that Totalitarianisim is slightly more accurate.

 

[Richard Scott]

I feel that Totalitarianisim is slightly more accurate.

I'll accept that!

 

[kylemore]

Essentially what we have now is an entire society going nuts in much the same way that Howard Hughes went nuts!

 

[talldave]

"nothing is being unlocked" is simply not true - non-essential retail is now partly open (and opens fully from tomorrow), pubs, restaurants etc all can open indoors from Wednesday (outdoor is already open) Tourist sites, hotels etc also open again from Wednesday as can houses of worship. Yes there are still restrictions within that and some some things are still closed until at least the end of the month but there is steady progress - this week will see a significant move out of lockdown
A noticeable shift is Lothian Buses returning to a near-normal day service (including rush hour X-services) from today

I'm talking about masks in shops, not pubs etc.

Supermarkets have been open all along, littered with stupid floor markings and submerged in perspex screens. Non essential shops that have opened are copying the stupid floor markings and perspex approach. All using the same approach we've had for weeks and working fine. Suddenly we apparently need to wear masks in the shops we've not been wearing masks in despite infection rates being significantly lower than when I was not wearing a mask.

So I think it's fair to challenge a decision (if taken) to ask why extra precautions are required for my supermarket shop when the risk has reduced.

 

[68000]

Just back from Morrisons and almost everyone had the face coverings on. I only noticed one person without

 

[jcf5561]

Are you sure you want to continue this line of questioning?

He has a perfectly valid point. If it was that important why were masks not made compulsory in shops at the same time as they were made compulsory on public transport? And for that matter, why were they not made compulsory at the start of the lockdown period?

 

[kylemore]

Just back from Morrisons and almost everyone had the face coverings on. I only noticed one person without

Had my first face muzzle shopping experience today - I noticed in Home Bargains that a few of the staff were muzzle-less. Very unpleasant therefore physical shopping will be kept to an absolute minimum, everything online and we will be trying Iceland home delivery for the weekly food shop - I fiddled with my muzzle continuously and managed to hold it away from my nose a lot of the time and in B&Q in the quieter aisles I was able to lower it below the nose most of the time, a tactic I will employ in the few times I will be in shops - technical compliance but undermining as much as possible on the quiet.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Something I have just noticed on the Scottish Government website is that "it is strongly recommended that staff wear face coverings even when 2m physical distancing is applied."

Does this, in effect, mean that there is no legal requirement for staff to wear face coverings when working within retail?

 

[Journeyman]

Something I have just noticed on the Scottish Government website is that "it is strongly recommended that staff wear face coverings even when 2m physical distancing is applied."

Does this, in effect, mean that there is no legal requirement for staff to wear face coverings when working within retail?

I was under the impression they're supposed to now, which most shop staff are very unhappy about.

I wore a scarf when I went shopping today, but it was horrible so I'll have to try and find something less itchy and hot. Either that or just avoid shops completely until this crap is lifted.

 

[Huntergreed]

Either that or just avoid shops completely until this crap is lifted.

That’s gonna be months sadly! I would advise using online deliveries or click+collect for the meantime (or if you live nearby, pop down to Carlisle - much more pleasant!)

 

[Journeyman]

That’s gonna be months sadly! I would advise using online deliveries or click+collect for the meantime (or if you live nearby, pop down to Carlisle - much more pleasant!)

I went to Berwick-upon-Tweed on Friday, which is my nearest English town, but it's bit of a trek. Might do it occasionally, though.

 

[kez19]

Something I have just noticed on the Scottish Government website is that "it is strongly recommended that staff wear face coverings even when 2m physical distancing is applied."

Does this, in effect, mean that there is no legal requirement for staff to wear face coverings when working within retail?

In the local Asda I went to yesterday majority of staff had face coverings as well as public EDIT: incomplete part apologies

I was under the impression they're supposed to now, which most shop staff are very unhappy about.

I wore a scarf when I went shopping today, but it was horrible so I'll have to try and find something less itchy and hot. Either that or just avoid shops completely until this crap is lifted.

Just a suggestion tried looking at snoods? I am considering getting more of them than resorting to wearing masks outside

 

[Journeyman]

Just a suggestion tried looking at snoods? I am considering getting more of them than resorting to wearing masks outside

Might give that a go. I just need something softer and less scratchy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wore a scarf when I went shopping today, but it was horrible so I'll have to try and find something less itchy and hot. Either that or just avoid shops completely until this crap is lifted.

I find fitted face coverings are much more comfortable (less uncomfortable) than either a disposable mask or a Buff/snood, I bought a couple from Oddballs which are quite entertainingly decorated too.

 

[kylemore]

Continued wearing of masks does real harm to your health - breathing in your own toxins which your body is attempting to expel can hardly do otherwise. It also reduces oxygen intake drastically to levels that would require a building to be closed if the air quality reached such a low level. There is ample proof that they harm people - no evidence that this will stop even one "case" of Covid19.

There has been no health and safety case made out for this and I hope people, particularly employees and their representatives start action in the courts and in particular seek injunctions until extensive investigation of the risks to which employers are exposing their employees.

Hopefully this will turn into a mess, a mess of court battles and recrimination and disruption of this stupidity.

If you are in favour of the present mask policy you are essentially in favour of harming people.

 

[fraser158]

Something I have just noticed on the Scottish Government website is that "it is strongly recommended that staff wear face coverings even when 2m physical distancing is applied."

Does this, in effect, mean that there is no legal requirement for staff to wear face coverings when working within retail?

In the regulation 6B of the Scottish Regulations referring to face coverings it says

"(1) Except to the extent that a defence would be available under regulation 8(4) [reasonable excuses], no person may use a shop without wearing a face covering.

(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to the wearing of a face covering—

...

(d)by a person responsible for a shop, or an employee of that person, where—

(i)there is a partition between the person or employee and members of the public, or

(ii)a distance of at least two metres is maintained between the person or employee and members of the public."

So staff could possibly say that as they are maintaining a distance they don't need to?

I work at a supermarket and when we are behind the plastic screens at the tills and customer service desk we can take the masks off.

 

[Furrball]

Continued wearing of masks does real harm to your health - breathing in your own toxins which your body is attempting to expel can hardly do otherwise. It also reduces oxygen intake drastically to levels that would require a building to be closed if the air quality reached such a low level. There is ample proof that they harm people - no evidence that this will stop even one "case" of Covid19.

There has been no health and safety case made out for this and I hope people, particularly employees and their representatives start action in the courts and in particular seek injunctions until extensive investigation of the risks to which employers are exposing their employees.

Hopefully this will turn into a mess, a mess of court battles and recrimination and disruption of this stupidity.

If you are in favour of the present mask policy you are essentially in favour of harming people.

There is no evidence to suggest this.

People in all walks of life have been wearing face masks of one form or another for many, many years with no ill effects

 

[Smidster]

If you are in favour of the present mask policy you are essentially in favour of harming people.

I really wish we could try and find a happy medium on some of this stuff - It really isn't going to do anyone any good in the long run.

I personally don't agree with Masks in shops as I don't think the conditions of everyday shopping pose a considerable risk (you don't have lots of people close to each other for long periods of time) especially where you compare it to other settings (e.g. pubs) where they wouldn't be mandated but the whole purpose is to have people together for long periods.

That doesn't mean that because I dislike the idea doesn't mean that anyone who wants them is wanting to take part in some kind of "muzzling" of the population or that the Government is doing it for nefarious reasons. Equally because I don't like it doesn't mean that I want to kill your Grandparents - I just want the intervention & intrusion to normal life to be as minimal as possible and proportional to risk - On transport the evidence is much much stronger so I generally support in those settings.

 

[68000]

I am rarely in a supermarket / shop for more than 30 minutes and do not find the washable cotton face mask I use uncomfortable. I find it highly unlikely that using a face mask in those situations is a danger to the person

 

[kylemore]

There is no evidence to suggest this.

People in all walks of life have been wearing face masks of one form or another for many, many years with no ill effects

There is plenty of evidence to support this.

Very few people wear masks for extended periods - whole shifts - many of those that do - for instance those tasked with tank cleaning for instance - have highly technical and expensive apparatus designed to ameliorate the known hazards and will be subject to a health and safety case and regime.

Many medical experts have expressed grave concerns over extended mask wearing, the risk of Hypoxia being one of them - deliberately putting people operating dangerous machinery such as forklifts in danger of Hypoxia is utterly reckless. Prolonged Hypoxia is associated with low levels of oxygen, it is known that cancer cells grow best in a micro-environment low in oxygen.

Studies have also shown that hypoxia inhibits immune cells used to fight viral infections.

Also scaring the elderly in particular into doing themselves harm by prolonged wearing of masks is verging on the criminal.

 

[Furrball]

There is plenty of evidence to support this.

Very few people wear masks for extended periods - whole shifts - many of those that do - for instance those tasked with tank cleaning for instance - have highly technical and expensive apparatus designed to ameliorate the known hazards and will be subject to a health and safety case and regime.

Many medical experts have expressed grave concerns over extended mask wearing, the risk of Hypoxia being one of them - deliberately putting people operating dangerous machinery such as forklifts in danger of Hypoxia is utterly reckless. Prolonged Hypoxia is associated with low levels of oxygen, it is known that cancer cells grow best in a micro-environment low in oxygen.

Studies have also shown that hypoxia inhibits immune cells used to fight viral infections.

Also scaring the elderly in particular into doing themselves harm by prolonged wearing of masks is verging on the criminal.

We are talking about wearing masks in shops, not an 8 hour shift on a forklift...

Is It Dangerous to Wear a COVID-19 Protective Mask for Too Long?

Prolonged usage of certain masks can cause some health concerns.

www.snopes.com

 

[Huntergreed]

We are talking about wearing masks in shops, not an 8 hour shift on a forklift...

Is It Dangerous to Wear a COVID-19 Protective Mask for Too Long?

Prolonged usage of certain masks can cause some health concerns.

www.snopes.com

Some day-long shopping trips can last for 8 hours, if not longer.

 

[nlogax]

Some day-long shopping trips can last for 8 hours, if not longer.

That sounds like a nightmare tbh! Who does that??

 

[68000]

Some day-long shopping trips can last for 8 hours, if not longer.

I do not know any shoppers who are in shops for 8 hours or more!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I do not know any shoppers who are in shops for 8 hours or more!

I know plenty who would, ordinarily, happily spend hours on end in large shopping centres - and AFAIK face coverings are mandatory within the shopping centres, as well as the outlets inside. 8 hours is probably stretching it a bit, but wouldn't rule out 5 or 6 hours.