Failed bourdon test

[Rich47]

I wonder if someone can answer me this question please
I have failed the Bourdon test twice for Arriva, I have got the National Standard pass mark but failed to reach Arriva's pass mark
I know I cannot have a 3rd attempt Arriva, would this penalise me with other rail companies who also wanted above the National Standard rate, would it be worth applying
Kind regards

 

[Saracen_83]

Did you sit the bourdon test recently ie January???

 

[Rich47]

I sat it on Jan 3rd, in the afternoon
There was a Matt as well, wondered if you were the same person

 

[Saracen_83]

Sadly not mate!!!

You have to wait 6 months but as long as you passed the other test to national, you should be ok then would need to complete the others I presume

 

[Rich47]

Thank you for replying, I will see if someone can give me a definite answer

 

[pop79]

Thank you for replying, I will see if someone can give me a definite answer

I have exactly the same situation as yours which is quite frustrating or maybe a little bit worse .in 2015 I sat the assessment stage 1 for C2C , I passed to the national standard but failed to meet their enhanced standard in TRP1 and TEA-OCC and then after a couple of Months I have been invited for an assessment with GTR and they told me I don`t need to sit Stage 1 so they invited me straight to stage 2.I passed the computerised tests but unfortunately failed the MMI .A month ago i applied for East midlands trains for a depot driver position been invited for an assessment on 04/01/2018 which i have attended this was for stage 1 then after a week i have received an E-mail saying that i have passed stage 1 to EMT enhanced standard but they will not progress my application because i have had two failed attempts previously one with C2C and the other with GTR . they consider my stage 1 with C2C as one life because i failed to their standard and the other life obviously the MMI. so statically speaking i still have one life left but for TOC`s that use enhanced standards i have had my two failed attempts. the only chance i have with a company that accepts the national standard which i doubt there is. In your situation in Arriva`s eyes you have failed your two attempts so you can never ever apply to them again unless they change the tests again and in this case your two lives will reset so you are nearly the same as me but a little bit better as you haven`t lost any lives to the national standard so you can still apply to TOC`s that accepts national standards.

I know this is very frustrating but what can we do it is a reality.

 

[pop79]

in my opinion, you will still need to apply for any vacancy as I understand one company`s enhanced standard can differ from another company`s enhanced standard but I am not sure if this true or not. but definitely you can apply for TOC`s who accepts national standard but the question is which companies accept national standard? if anyone knows please tell us .I hope this clears the image for you.

 

[Rich47]

I feel for you, especially as you passed the computer tests,
I live in Hertfordshire so was hoping to apply for Abellio and GNT but I read that GNT want the advanced scoring which if that is the case I can only hope that Abellio want the standard pass rate (did do an SJE last year...failed)
It doesn't help you but it was comforting reading your reply, I've been like a bear with a sore head, thinking if only. God knows how your emotions are, so near but yet so far!
A bit mean of East Midlands, you would think they would let you through to stage 2, different if you had failed stage 1 also they can see you first applied in 2015 so you have wanted it for a few years!
I can only hope Abellio wants drivers, I wish you luck you, all things happen for a reason, so they say! That's the only thing that keeps me going!

 

[pop79]

I know how you feel you need someone to comfort you as i do. the only thing that pisses me off that i still have one life left but EMT consider as i failed twice. itis completely unfair that they see it that way if you don't meet their standard they consider it as you lost one life, absolutely ridiculous even though you passed at the national standard. it is fair for them to say that although you passed to the national standard but you need to resit those tests to pass to our standard.

 

[ESONEULB]

Hi Guys,

You mentioned national standard and the TOC standards.. can you give us all some details of what both standards are in your opinion?

Cheers in advance.

 

[pop79]

Hi Guys,

You mentioned national standard and the TOC standards.. can you give us all some details of what both standards are in your opinion?

Cheers in advance.

When you sit the trainee train driver assessment there are two standards the basic and most obvious one is the national standard.how they score the tests to determine if you passed to a national standarad or to an enhanched standard i don`t have a clue and no one does.but when you sit the tests you will have a feel of it for exemple if you sit stage 1 and after the tests you feel that one or two subtests you havent done well at all and you have a strong feeling that you will fail those tests but when you phone the OPC you discover that you passed those tests to a national standard that you thought beforehand that you will fail those tests.on the other hand, if you sit stage 1 and come out of the tests and you are satisfied that you have done well so I am nearly sure that you will pass to an enhanced standard, I hope you get what i mean.
so to conclude most of the train companies have enhanced standard to limit the people who pass because there are hundreds of people apply.I am not sure if there are train companies use the national standard or not.

 

[baz962]

When you sit the trainee train driver assessment there are two standards the basic and most obvious one is the national standard.how they score the tests to determine if you passed to a national standarad or to an enhanched standard i don`t have a clue and no one does.but when you sit the tests you will have a feel of it for exemple if you sit stage 1 and after the tests you feel that one or two subtests you havent done well at all and you have a strong feeling that you will fail those tests but when you phone the OPC you discover that you passed those tests to a national standard that you thought beforehand that you will fail those tests.on the other hand, if you sit stage 1 and come out of the tests and you are satisfied that you have done well so I am nearly sure that you will pass to an enhanced standard, I hope you get what i mean.
so to conclude most of the train companies have enhanced standard to limit the people who pass because there are hundreds of people apply.I am not sure if there are train companies use the national standard or not.

I dont quite agree, i thought i had done badly in some but passed advanced.

 

[ESONEULB]

I dont quite agree, i thought i had done badly in some but passed advanced.

So do you recon it's about keeping your standard a cross the whole test so it shows you can concentrate for the whole test, rather than blasting the first few tests then tailing off as you finish.. ?

 

[Jaydon Jay]

I feel as if I'm in the same boat as you guys, I took private assessments with DB SCHENKER back in November 2017. I passed all of the assessments but they don't tell you if you've passed to an enhanced level or not. The nearest Depot to me is Brighton which run southern and Thamslink, the thing is I don't know if Southern or Thameslink are looking for enhanced pass marks

 

[baz962]

So do you recon it's about keeping your standard a cross the whole test so it shows you can concentrate for the whole test, rather than blasting the first few tests then tailing off as you finish.. ?

In my opinion, and it is only an opinion, its speed, accuracy and looking at wether you panic so yes. For example i hear on here that people are doing 12/13 lines or more on dots. I was doing 9/10. On the dials i answered 22 or 23 out of 43 questions, other people on my day answered 30.

 

[baz962]

I feel as if I'm in the same boat as you guys, I took private assessments with DB SCHENKER back in November 2017. I passed all of the assessments but they don't tell you if you've passed to an enhanced level or not. The nearest Depot to me is Brighton which run southern and Thamslink, the thing is I don't know if Southern or Thameslink are looking for enhanced pass marks

Thameslink do as i would have been thameslink, i live opposite end in bedford, and i believe govia as a whole require enhanced.

 

[12guard4]

Makes a mockery out of the system having a pass mark as most TOCs now seem to require enhanced pass. I have heard of someone else who passed to standard but was classed as a fail because that particular TOC wanted enhanced. Very harsh on you IMO.

 

[Scouse_scott]

I do believe that freight companys do not require you to have the enhanced standard and will except the national standard

 

[superhands]

It changes all the time but GWR, SE, Scotrail, Northern, DB Cargo, Freightliner, DRS I think GB railfrieght for the Assistant Train Manager role and Colas rail take national passes.
Southern and London midlands(or whatever it's call now take national but you also need the DFFT. SWR take national I think there is a extra test. Greater Anglia want a high pass mark for TRP2 everything else should be national.
I have no idea about Arriva Trains Wales or Hull Trains.
I think the bigger the company is and I mean but distance covered the more likely is that they are National standard an example of this Heathrow express has the same extra tests and require almost the same standard as ARL and MTR crossrail

 

[baz962]

It changes all the time but GWR, SE, Scotrail, Northern, DB Cargo, Freightliner, DRS I think GB railfrieght for the Assistant Train Manager role and Colas rail take national passes.
Southern and London midlands(or whatever it's call now take national but you also need the DFFT. SWR take national I think there is a extra test. Greater Anglia want a high pass mark for TRP2 everything else should be national.
I have no idea about Arriva Trains Wales or Hull Trains.
I think the bigger the company is and I mean but distance covered the more likely is that they are National standard an example of this Heathrow express has the same extra tests and require almost the same standard as ARL and MTR crossrail

Arl and mtr are enhanced.

 

[Bromley boy]

Makes a mockery out of the system having a pass mark as most TOCs now seem to require enhanced pass. I have heard of someone else who passed to standard but was classed as a fail because that particular TOC wanted enhanced. Very harsh on you IMO.

Usually the position is:

- if you've taken the tests in the last 6 months you're ineligible to apply;
- if you've failed* the tests twice at any point you're ineligible to apply.

*Failure means outright failure as opposed to a pass but failure to meet the enhanced standard.

 

[Bromley boy]

but GWR, SE, Scotrail, Northern, DB Cargo, Freightliner, DRS I think GB railfrieght for the Assistant Train Manager role and Colas rail take national passes.

That explains how I slipped through the net .

 

[superhands]

Nah you didn't slip through the net.
The only reason the enhanced standard is there is because more people are passing the tests and the fact that the GBT is online

 

[Bromley boy]

Nah you didn't slip through the net.
The only reason the enhanced standard is there is because more people are passing the tests and the fact that the GBT is online

Sounds like you marked my paper!

I remember the selection day. We were taken in to a room individually to hear whether we would be coming back for the afternoon session.

"I'll give you the bad news straight away. I'm afraid we will be keeping you back this afternoon".

B*stard. I could tell he enjoyed saying that. Proper railway, though.

 

[cin88]

Anyone know if there's a use by date on passes? I passed to national standard on stage one at TPE two years ago but didn't get enhanced on bourdon so wasn't progressed. I'm about to throw my hat in the ring for a non-driving role that makes you sit the driving tests for future reference, was hoping to "dodge" doing the paper tests again and just go on to the computer ones.

 

[12guard4]

Anyone know if there's a use by date on passes? I passed to national standard on stage one at TPE two years ago but didn't get enhanced on bourdon so wasn't progressed. I'm about to throw my hat in the ring for a non-driving role that makes you sit the driving tests for future reference, was hoping to "dodge" doing the paper tests again and just go on to the computer ones.

Valid for 5 years but a lot of TOCs only take 2.

 

[cin88]

Thought so, I just rang OPC and they're of the opinion that it'll still be on the database even if I can't remember the date I sat the tests so all should be well.

 

[12guard4]

It will be recorded. Checked your emails from a couple of years ago that could get you the date, as long as you didn't delete the assessent invitation of course.

 

[The One]

If you pass the national standard it’s not down as a fail it only means you didn’t reach their bench mark.I think it’s a way of filtering people out on the day as so many people apply for these positions.
So if you had failed the test by their standards you still have two lives so to speak cause you down as a pass on the central data base.And if you fail the actual interview not the structured interview it’s not a fail as not part of the test

 

[Saracen_83]

Not sure if this helps but I spoke to OPC Friday, they said that I can apply to trainee train driver roles that accept national standard pass scores, I just cannot apply to Arriva Rail for 6 months.... and when I do I’ll just need to re-do the GBT again as this is what I failed on narrowly. She also said that each companies enhanced score differs, so what might be a fail with arriva, might be a pass with another company, so apply and let them decide if the score is good enough as it is all on the database.

Hope this helps