Fantasy: Given no limits, how would you modernise your line?

[seasidersfan]

My line is Blackpool North and it's being electrified so I'm pretty happy. Although ideally I'd want a new station building too. I'd actually choose an upgrade to the Blackpool South line and integrate trams into it.

 

[Essan]

For the Fort Bill - Mallaig line, I wouldn't actually do much. Just build a new private halt at Essan (between Glenfinnan and Lochailort) And replace all services with steam locos.

There might need to be some adjustment to the timetables to allow better connections with Evesham as well .....

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the Fort Bill - Mallaig line, I wouldn't actually do much. Just build a new private halt at Essan (between Glenfinnan and Lochailort) And replace all services with steam locos.

I'd go for new Stadler scenic DMUs like the Swiss have (but keep the Jacobite). We really are throwing money away using conventional DMUs on our beautifully scenic lines in the UK. First Class with restaurant service on this kind of service really should be tourist money for old rope.

 

[DarloRich]

I'd actually like to see the German "fancy DMU branch line" approach tried somewhere in the UK like the Marston Vale. So that would be...

- New Stadler WINK DMUs x3 (2 in use, one spare), high power for quick acceleration. Modern, route-branded livery advertising attractions on the line, units to have locally relevant names and the local connections celebrated generally
- Perfect clockface hourly timetable with proper connections (ideally use P5 where not in other use)
- Driver controlling doors, giving an aim for station stops to be for no more than 30 seconds total - but guard to be required and safety trained (needed for selling tickets anyway)
- Platforms modified and lift at Bletchley for level boarding throughout using Stadler style moving steps
- Ideally operate through to MKC bay.

interesting. I note this board seems to have developed some kind of fetish for these Sadler trains! What is so special?

 

[Bletchleyite]

interesting. I note this board seems to have developed some kind of fetish for these Sadler trains! What is so special?

They offer some key features that nobody else does (to the UK; similar designs are fairly common in mainland Europe, some better than others).
- Power module separate from the coaches so the environment is similar to LHCS, much quieter and less rattly than a regular DMU. It's basically a mini locomotive between the two articulated halves
- Low floor design allowing level boarding at UK platforms with a moving step
- Big windows with the option of panoramic windows continuing into the roof
- Small production runs possible at an affordable price with customisation - instead of one standard train as the others offer, the design is modular from standard body panels but offers customisation options - things like window layouts, doors, floor height etc.

I think from the point of view of the board they're also interesting because they are different - most new-build UK trains are boringly conventional - 20m/23m vehicles, doors at ends or quarters/thirds, high floor etc.

 

[K.o.R]

I'm boring. Overhead electrification all over the Southern Region, including all the diesel islands and Southampton-Westbury-Bristol. Also re-opening some of the closed branches (Gosport, Midhurst) as tramways.

 

[DarloRich]

They offer some key features that nobody else does (to the UK; similar designs are fairly common in mainland Europe, some better than others).
- Power module separate from the coaches so the environment is similar to LHCS, much quieter and less rattly than a regular DMU. It's basically a mini locomotive between the two articulated halves
- Low floor design allowing level boarding at UK platforms with a moving step
- Big windows with the option of panoramic windows continuing into the roof
- Small production runs possible at an affordable price with customisation - instead of one standard train as the others offer, the design is modular from standard body panels but offers customisation options - things like window layouts, doors, floor height etc.

I think from the point of view of the board they're also interesting because they are different - most new-build UK trains are boringly conventional - 20m/23m vehicles, doors at ends or quarters/thirds, high floor etc.

An interesting concept.

 

[Thebaz]

I live right next to East Grinstead station.
My fantasy modernisation plans for the Oxted lines would include:

East Grinstead line
Rebuild Haywards Heath - Ardingly & electrify through to East Grinstead via Kingscote (alternative to BML). Bluebell Railway would be curtailed to Sheffield Park - Horsted Keynes (sorry steam lovers)
Lifts at East Grinstead.
Bi-directional working through to South Croydon.
Additional platform brought back into use at Lingfield.
Reinstall Crowhurst spur link to Tonbridge line.

Uckfield Line
Double track the Uckfield line.
Electrify Uckfield line.
Extend the line to Lewes.
Signalling/trackwork to allow direct running into Oxted platform 3 from the south.
Possible spur from Ashurst to Tunbridge Wells (usurping Spa Valley Railway).
Put the (soon to be redundant) 458/5's on Southern Metro services & move the remaining 377's down to the Wealden Line!

I knew someone would beat me to these lines - I agree with most of your fantasy proposals, but for starters I would settle for stopping all the peak Uckfield trains additionally at Sanderstead instead of just the late evening southbound ones.

 

[Requeststop]

Ok it's a fantasy - My line local line is (actually was) St Erth/St Ives. No call for changes I hear you say. Well..... lets be rid of the Saltings. Bloody awful structure. St Erth to become the Park and Ride centre.
Let Lelant, in the centre of the village, drop it's request stop status and become a hourly stopper.
Steam runs during the summer season weekends, double headed. I'd invest in that.
More direct runs to Penzance and back from St Ives.
For St Erth: Hourly and/or half hourly runs from Penzance to Truro with an extra stop between Camborne and Redruth at Pool. It'll be a damned faster journey than via bus.
By the way never heard of Liskeguard as mentioned earlier but know of Lyskerrys nowadays known as Liskeard.

 

[Gareth]

My line's probably Chat Moss, although Liverpool WCML spur is nearby too.

Quite happy with the electrification of Chat Moss. The Class 319s are quite old but better than what we were used to. Ideally we'd have new EMUs and the completion of Merseyrail for the east of the city.

Wavertree Technology Park really could just be called Wavertree or Wavertree North. I'd have a station on the WCML called Wavertree South either where the old station was or slightly further north and all would be well. A higher frequency of stoppers on both lines would be welcome too.

 

[B&I]

My line's probably Chat Moss, although Liverpool WCML spur is nearby too.

Quite happy with the electrification of Chat Moss. The Class 319s are quite old but better than what we were used to. Ideally we'd have new EMUs and the completion of Merseyrail for the east of the city.

Wavertree Technology Park really could just be called Wavertree or Wavertree North. I'd have a station on the WCML called Wavertree South either where the old station was or slightly further north and all would be well. A higher frequency of stoppers on both lines would be welcome too.

Yes! The Edge Hill Spur! How the hell could I forget that? Would save me walking 15 minutes from the office to.Lime Street every night.

 

[jopsuk]

no limits eh? For the Cambridge area:

A central underground four track core railway. Portals for the four track section would be south of Great Chesterford, west of Royston and north of Waterbeach, with the portals all designed for future extension

The junction at Shelford would be grade seperated, obviously.

A two track electrified line would split south of Shelford to Haverhill. This would be entirely sub surface, and built with extension to Colchester in mind.

A two track underground electric line to Soham and Bury St Edmunds via Newmarket. Soham services would continue to to Ely and also to Mildenhall. Stations reinstated at Cherry Hinton, Fulbourn and Six Mile Bottom (this last as a Parkway)

A line (just assume they're all two track electric underground) to St Neots, with a Cambridge West station amongst others

Cambridge "central" would have three island platforms (six faces), one for most northbound through services, one for most southbound through services, and one (used less) for any services that have to terminate.

Cambridge North and South, and Royston, would be simple twin island platforms with services stopping on all four tracks

Meldreth, Shepreth, Foxton, a reinstated Harston, reinstated Hauxton & Little Shelford, Great Shelford, a re-sited Whittlesford ("& Sawston"), a new Hinxton (for the Sanger Institute), Great Chesterford and Whittlesford would all be outside platforms with fast lines through the middle

Cambridge North to Huntingdon, including a station at CRC/Science Park West

A full metro system, obviously. Entirely underground. Replacing the busway where that's not otherwise replaced by railways

Why so much underground? Two reasons- weatherproofing is a big one. Ideally both lines to London would go fully subterranean. Secondly, through Cambridge and to the villages the freed up track bed (and depot space, obviously I'm sending that underground too) would be excellent space for a better north-south cycleway, linear park and housing.

I wouldn't bother with the old varsity route. Instead at Shepreth I'd cut across to Sandy via a new town at Bassingbourn barracks site.

 

[james60059]

Improvements to my local line which is the Nuneaton - Leicester line.

■ At least 2 tph all station stoppers off-peak, increasing to 3 or4 tph peak.
■ Reopen stations at Elmesthorpe, Croft and Stockingford.
■ Water Orton remodelling to accomodate the changes .
■ Electrify the route through to Leicester so Class 170's can be cascaded to strengthen services to Stansted Airport.

 

[kevconnor]

On the Calderdale route within Greater Manchester.

Electrification
Upgrade of ELR to allow services to run out to Ramsbottom
further out improvements on line speed

 

[jyte]

Improvements to my local line which is the Nuneaton - Leicester line.

■ At least 2 tph all station stoppers off-peak, increasing to 3 or4 tph peak.
■ Reopen stations at Elmesthorpe, Croft and Stockingford.
■ Water Orton remodelling to accomodate the changes .
■ Electrify the route through to Leicester so Class 170's can be cascaded to strengthen services to Stansted Airport.

I wonder what the C:B for electrification of Leicester to Birmingham would be.

If the wires ever reach Leicester (which I think they will in the next 10 years) then part of the project is done already. It's also a key freight route, and wiring from Nuneaton into Birmingham would allow class 390s to divert in the event something's buggered on the coventry line.

 

[BantamMenace]

Aire/Wharfe Valley lines

Infrastructure
Four track Leeds to divergence of Airedale and Wharfedale lines just before Apperley Bridge station.
Reinstate through lines at Ilkley through Addingham and onto the Bolton Abbey Line and onto Skipton.
Electrify throughout this new link.
Build 2 new platforms at Skipton where this line rejoins the Airedale Line.
Electrify through to Hellifield and build a new 150m platform where the steam trains stop for water currently.
Build large amounts of housing stock in Addingham, Embsay, Ilkley, Skipton, Gargrave and Hellifield.

Service Pattern
2tph Leeds to Ilkley current service extended to Hellifield all stops.
Leeds to Carlisle and Morecambe/Lancaster diverted via Ilkley vice Keighley and made alternative hour clockface.
Freight diverted via Ilkley vice Keighley.
Released paths used to add 3rd tph Leeds to Skipton via Keighley with current calling pattern.
3rd tph London KX to Leeds added, routed via Hambleton curve and extended to Skipton calling at Shipley, Bingley and Keighley.

Rolling Stock
6-car 23m EMUs with SDO on all services.
3-car 23m BEMUs for Leeds to Lancaster/Morecambe
4-car DMUs for Leeds - Carlisle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

4-car DMUs for Leeds - Carlisle.

This is another line where proper "scenic" tourist DMUs with panoramic windows and First Class (money for old tourist rope at say £20 an upgrade) should be used.

 

[BantamMenace]

This is another line where proper "scenic" tourist DMUs with panoramic windows and First Class (money for old tourist rope at say £20 an upgrade) should be used.

If the point work allowed it's prime for KWVR services from Oxenhope to be extended through to Carlisle with cross platform transfers from 'normal' services at Keighley (P2 to P3) and at Skipton (same platform).

 

[xotGD]

Aire/Wharfe Valley lines

Infrastructure
Four track Leeds to divergence of Airedale and Wharfedale lines just before Apperley Bridge station.
Reinstate through lines at Ilkley through Addingham and onto the Bolton Abbey Line and onto Skipton.
Electrify throughout this new link.
Build 2 new platforms at Skipton where this line rejoins the Airedale Line.
Electrify through to Hellifield and build a new 150m platform where the steam trains stop for water currently.
Build large amounts of housing stock in Addingham, Embsay, Ilkley, Skipton, Gargrave and Hellifield.

Service Pattern
2tph Leeds to Ilkley current service extended to Hellifield all stops.
Leeds to Carlisle and Morecambe/Lancaster diverted via Ilkley vice Keighley and made alternative hour clockface.
Freight diverted via Ilkley vice Keighley.
Released paths used to add 3rd tph Leeds to Skipton via Keighley with current calling pattern.
3rd tph London KX to Leeds added, routed via Hambleton curve and extended to Skipton calling at Shipley, Bingley and Keighley.

Rolling Stock
6-car 23m EMUs with SDO on all services.
3-car 23m BEMUs for Leeds to Lancaster/Morecambe
4-car DMUs for Leeds - Carlisle.

I was with you until the line about housebuilding. Plenty of brownfield opportunities closer to Leeds and Bradford rather than building on greenfield sites here in the Dales.

 

[GW43125]

For the Fort Bill - Mallaig line, I wouldn't actually do much. Just build a new private halt at Essan (between Glenfinnan and Lochailort) And replace all services with steam locos.

There might need to be some adjustment to the timetables to allow better connections with Evesham as well .....

37-hauled stock Queen Street-Fort Bill then smack the kettle on the back (and drop the 37) for the run to Mallaig.

We can but dream.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Aire/Wharfe Valley lines

Infrastructure
Four track Leeds to divergence of Airedale and Wharfedale lines just before Apperley Bridge station.
Reinstate through lines at Ilkley through Addingham and onto the Bolton Abbey Line and onto Skipton.
Electrify throughout this new link.
Build 2 new platforms at Skipton where this line rejoins the Airedale Line.
Electrify through to Hellifield and build a new 150m platform where the steam trains stop for water currently.
Build large amounts of housing stock in Addingham, Embsay, Ilkley, Skipton, Gargrave and Hellifield.

I think that, thread title aside, knocking down half of Ilkley is pretty unlikely - lovely as it would be to get Addingham back on the rail network!

That said, definitely agree with the rest of it, including extending the wires up to Hellifield and sending Leeds - Skipton services up to there to turn round, bringing some of those beautiful places into a much more regular connection. You can then also extend the services from Clitheroe up to meet them. Probably still slower to go that way to Manchester than down to Leeds and change but it is nice to have options as well as connecting those geographically close areas better - essentially SELRAP's dream but without having to re-lay miles of track.

If you did that though I would probably bring back the plan for the turn back at Keighley on the Aire Valley line though, so you could run additional all-stops services that far and turn the ones from Hellifield/Skipton into semi-fasts from Keighley to get some more capacity.

I would also re-open the Grassington branch to passenger services - opening it up to tourists better, improving its connectivity and hopefully reducing some of the heavy car traffic you get with everyone heading there to go for a tramp in the hills!

 

[trainplan1]

Who doesn't love a bit of dreaming....

So London - Aylesbury and others concerned...

- Electrified throughout
- Met line cut back to Rickmansworth, new 4 track station built next to the car park and Waitrose
- New link from Paddington/Old Oak to become the Chiltern branch of Crossrail
- All platforms from Chorleywood to Aylesbury extended as needed to accommodate full length Class 345's
- Modern signalling to give much better headways!
- 4tph to Aylesbury, 2tph to Chesham + 2tph to Amersham in peaks. No more all stations met line crawlers from the City to Amersham/Chesham ever again. Ever!
- Heads banged together by whoever concerned to get a move on with the Croxley Rail Link.
- Electrified link at Neasden Junction retained so that...

Chiltern Main Line

- Electrified throughout
- Class 88's* + MK5's ordered for the Birmingham fasts main line and Oxford peak services. (* Or souped up version, UK TRAXX etc if line upgraded for 125mph running)
- Platforms extended to accommodate at least 8 Car Aventra/Desiro etc.
- New units as above to run in either 4 or 8 car configuration as needed. No more 2,3,4,5,6 car combinations causing confusion.
- Paths freed up at Marylebone by the Aylesbury services gone to the above to be used for new services.
- No more 2 car Class 165's on Marylebone - Birmingham runs ever again. Ever!

Now where's that blank chequebook I found...?

 

[jyte]

Who doesn't love a bit of dreaming....

So London - Aylesbury and others concerned...

- Electrified throughout
- Met line cut back to Rickmansworth, new 4 track station built next to the car park and Waitrose
- New link from Paddington/Old Oak to become the Chiltern branch of Crossrail
- All platforms from Chorleywood to Aylesbury extended as needed to accommodate full length Class 345's
- Modern signalling to give much better headways!
- 4tph to Aylesbury, 2tph to Chesham + 2tph to Amersham in peaks. No more all stations met line crawlers from the City to Amersham/Chesham ever again. Ever!
- Heads banged together by whoever concerned to get a move on with the Croxley Rail Link.
- Electrified link at Neasden Junction retained so that...

Chiltern Main Line

- Electrified throughout
- Class 88's* + MK5's ordered for the Birmingham fasts main line and Oxford peak services. (* Or souped up version, UK TRAXX etc if line upgraded for 125mph running)
- Platforms extended to accommodate at least 8 Car Aventra/Desiro etc.
- New units as above to run in either 4 or 8 car configuration as needed. No more 2,3,4,5,6 car combinations causing confusion.
- Paths freed up at Marylebone by the Aylesbury services gone to the above to be used for new services.
- No more 2 car Class 165's on Marylebone - Birmingham runs ever again. Ever!

Now where's that blank chequebook I found...?

I approve of this haha.

But maybe instead of loco hauled services a good, well made inter-city EMU fault ? I don't think loco-hauled services would have the needed acceleration to drastically improve journey times.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I live right next to East Grinstead station.
My fantasy modernisation plans for the Oxted lines would include:

Uckfield Line
Double track the Uckfield line.
Electrify Uckfield line.
Extend the line to Lewes.
Signalling/trackwork to allow direct running into Oxted platform 3 from the south.
Possible spur from Ashurst to Tunbridge Wells (usurping Spa Valley Railway).
Put the (soon to be redundant) 458/5's on Southern Metro services & move the remaining 377's down to the Wealden Line!

As I am on the Uckfield line I will vary these.

Agree with the double tracking, but not so keen on electrification. The Class 171s are one of the most comfy trains out there any electric replacement will be worse, unless maybe the seats from the 171s can be put in the electric stock?

Do not extend the line to Lewes, either fares or the numbers of passengers will increase substantially so I won’t get a seat or it will cost a fortune.

There’s no point putting a spur into platform 3 as from December all Uckfield trains (not sure about Sunday’s) will be through to London Bridge.

On a related note make Sunday trains through from London Bridge

 

[Chrisgr31]

but for starters I would settle for stopping all the peak Uckfield trains additionally at Sanderstead instead of just the late evening southbound ones.

Well you are going to be disappointed later this year then as none of them will be stopping at Sanderstead!

On reflection can I have monumental springs attached to the 171s so they can jump over late running slow East Grinstead trains and not get held up!

 

[backontrack]

Improvements in the York & Yorkshire area:

-The reopening/opening of various stations in the county, such as Haxby, Strensall, Kirkham Abbey, Speeton, Flamborough, Bell Busk, Flaxby Parkway, Knaresborough East, Ferrybridge, Brotherton & Byram, Monk Fryston, East Leeds Parkway, Luddendenfoot, Hemsworth, Rawmarsh, Crosshills, Ossett, Horbury, and Bramhope North
-The reopening/opening of lines from Harrogate to Northallerton*, East Leeds Parkway to Wetherby,* and Ulleskelf to Hornbeam Park*, Arthington to Burley-in-Wharfedale*, Horsforth to Guiseley*, Low Moor to Mirfield*, Ilkley to Skipton*, Sheffield to Wakefield via Wath and Cudworth*, Skipton to Colne, Malton to Pickering, and (oh go on then!) Clapham to Low Gill
(lines marked with * would be electrified)
-Above all, York to Beverley to be reopened and electrified
-York to Scarborough to be electrified
-York and Hull to Leeds to be wholly electrifield
-Leeds to Manchester (both routes) to be wholly electrified
-Stations to be opened on the above lines at Killinghall, Ripley, Ripon, Barwick, Thorner, Bardsey, Collingham, Tadcaster, Newton Kyme & Toulston, Boston Spa, Wetherby, Spofforth, Follifoot, Bramhope North, Pool-in-Wharfedale, Otley, Leeds Bradford Airport, Yeadon, Cleckheaton, Liversedge, Heckmondwike, Addingham, Earby, Ingleton, Kirkby Lonsdale, Barbon, Casterton, Middleton, Sedbergh, Market Weighton, Pocklington, Fangfoss, Stamford Bridge and York North
-a Leeds Metro network, taking in places such as Rothwell, Gildersome, Drighlington, Birstall, Gomersal, Cleckheaton, Batley, Roundhay...
-direct services from York to Skipton via Harrogate, Otley and Ilkley
-a reopened, electrified Woodhead Line with a station at Stocksbridge

 

[theageofthetra]

1) Completely rebuild Brixton to allow interchange with LO, Lewisham/Herne Hill. Step free access and undercover access to Brixton tube.

2) Interchange station at Brockley to allow access to LO from Lewisham services.

3) Close Swanscombe & Northfleet & rebuild with a new station between the two with covered access to Ebsfleet intl (which is what should have been done before HS1 opened)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I wonder what the C:B for electrification of Leicester to Birmingham would be.

If the wires ever reach Leicester (which I think they will in the next 10 years) then part of the project is done already. It's also a key freight route, and wiring from Nuneaton into Birmingham would allow class 390s to divert in the event something's buggered on the coventry line.

I have been thinking exactly the same myself over the last few weeks. It could even be spun positively. Mr Speaker " We are giving immediate approval to electrify Birmingham New St via Water Orton to Leicester. It gives a valuable diversionary route. It allows us to move to Birmingham New Street being entirely free of diesel fumes. It allows us to start in our long term goal of a green environment and economy by making a start on electrifying the key freight route from Harwich to Nuneaton. I commend it to the house. ( It also allows us to back pedal on MML electrification - we need to get to Market Harborough anyway and from there it is a short hop to Leicester which would be already electrified anyway!!)

 

[jyte]

I have been thinking exactly the same myself over the last few weeks. It could even be spun positively. Mr Speaker " We are giving immediate approval to electrify Birmingham New St via Water Orton to Leicester. It gives a valuable diversionary route. It allows us to move to Birmingham New Street being entirely free of diesel fumes. It allows us to start in our long term goal of a green environment and economy by making a start on electrifying the key freight route from Harwich to Nuneaton. I commend it to the house. ( It also allows us to back pedal on MML electrification - we need to get to Market Harborough anyway and from there it is sa short hop to Leicester which is already electrified anyway!!)

Gralistair, fancy forming an Electrification Party?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Gralistair, fancy forming an Electrification Party?

If I had the power of God- I would be PM - make a pro rail person SoS Transport -form an inner sanctum at Downing St of the SoS, Chancellor, myself, SoS for Environment and a consultant - Sir Roger Ford but allow him to remain as a writer for Modern Railways. Then I would fire most of the other consultants. Then I would approach the opposition, Lib Dems, Labour etc and get them onboard - and we would rock and roll - my ultimate fantasy.