CatfordCat
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- Joined
- 23 Jan 2013
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- 639
I have the urge to set something up in Berkshire, as a no-frills service in competition with Reading Buses' Lion and Leopard and Tiger.
Moggie Bus
Moggie Bus
I know this is a general question, but if it was specifically in relation to Edinburgh, I think you would be on an absolute hiding to nothing (Whether from a Firstgroup perspective or anybody else)
Ahem. Warrington - Stockport express via Knutsford and Wilmslow.It would be almost impossible to do in Knutsford now given if you register a commercial service which duplicates a subsided service, the subsided service has to either be cancelled, re-routed or truncated to prevent competition between a commercial and subsided service.
It would be almost impossible to do in Knutsford now given if you register a commercial service which duplicates a subsided service, the subsided service has to either be cancelled, re-routed or truncated to prevent competition between a commercial and subsided service. Saying that maybe that's the solution to the problem that the bus network is limited and not really based on current demand. You could register new commercial services which better meet demands and if they a success keep them, if it doesn't make enough to be commercially viable but has resulted in the council having to revised contracted services then they have to look at more than one option when you cancel the commercial registration.
A Solo M720 fits that bill.The idea of an operator launching a town network on a commercial basis to replace a mishmash of subsidised bits and pieces is an interesting one and perhaps more realistic in these days of 16-21 seat minibuses that are DDA compliant.
You mean the same people who banned LA's from setting up municipal bus companies?Perhaps there should be a DfT seed fund for such projects.
You mean the same people who banned LA's from setting up municipal bus companies?
A Solo M720 fits that bill.
You mean the same people who banned LA's from setting up municipal bus companies?
Of course. But that's for another thread...I wonder if a French municipality set up a new bus company would it be allowed to operate in this country?
Ahem. Warrington - Stockport express via Knutsford and Wilmslow.
Not sure mighty Knutsford qualifies as a city!
The idea of an operator launching a town network on a commercial basis to replace a mishmash of subsidised bits and pieces is an interesting one and perhaps more realistic in these days of 16-21 seat minibuses that are DDA compliant.
Well it can Mirror the 88 from the bus station and mirror the 370 or 11 from Altrincham. Use a high spec double decker with 2+1 coach seats and tables.Not sure Knutsford to Stockport would be a viable bus route. It's unlikely to have a better journey time than the train and I think a large number of those who travel to Stockport do so to change trains rather than to visit Stockport, so integrated ticketing would be needed to make it attractive.
Not sure Knutsford to Stockport would be a viable bus route. It's unlikely to have a better journey time than the train and I think a large number of those who travel to Stockport do so to change trains rather than to visit Stockport, so integrated ticketing would be needed to make it attractive.
The original post from @tbtc does say town or city. Although, according to a Robbie William's album track Knutsford is a city!
One of the problems with buses in Knutsford is the size of the buses. Due to them only having 28-35 seats we end up with long gaps between A and B what's effectively a duplicate service is operating between C and A at school starting/ending times, when the duplicate service wouldn't be needed if larger buses were used.
I always wondered why there was no viable service between Knutsford and Warrington. It's an awkward journey by train yet could easily be done by bus and is one of the closest big Cheshire towns to Knutsford. I thought Warrington Borough were going to introduce something but it turns out to be a pretty minimal service operating via Lymm.
I always wondered why there was no viable service between Knutsford and Warrington. It's an awkward journey by train yet could easily be done by bus and is one of the closest big Cheshire towns to Knutsford. I thought Warrington Borough were going to introduce something but it turns out to be a pretty minimal service operating via Lymm.
Because you’re looking at a higher affluent area, a route with very few villages and so population, and closer shopping and commercial centres to visit.
Yet it goes close to one of the most visited tourist attractions in the North West (Tatton Park.) Also don't underestimate demand from Knutsford for public transport, for a town with just one train per hour the station is extremely busy and some of the services on the 88 bus route have more passengers than seats.
As I said, there are closer alternatives....like Altrincham.
Also, Knutsford ain’t that large either. Remember, the OP said “viable service” - that there might be demand but not enough to be viable are not mutually exclusive positions.
If high quality buses were used on a limited stop service and they ran at suitable times for commuters then it might be viable eventually, as buses should be able to get around Warrington quicker than cars due to the bus lanes. Knutsford isn't that large as you say so consequently a lot of people living in Knutsford don't work in Knutsford.
Not seeing it myself. It’s not the closest place to go to. Few places in between so limited market. Also, the population of Knutsford is also relatively small.
A demand may be there but viable without substantial support? I’m dubious
Northwich to Warrington has struggled enough to sustain a service and that has a much larger potential customer base.
Northwich to Warrington has not struggled. The via Lostock Gralam 45 service is a lucrative flow which is why GHA Coaches started a bus war on it, the via Anderton 46 service is not profitable partly because there's an alternative more frequent Arriva service serving Barnton and it's slower than Warrington via Lostock Gralam. Northwich is further from Warrington than Knutsford so the larger population is probably off-set by the longer journey times. After all Knutsford has a lot more Manchester commuters who travel by rail than Northwich.
Sorry but I used to live in Northwich. End to end flows have struggled - hence the raft of amendments and changes over the years. Yes, it does benefit from some substantial flows within the town (that doubtless prompted GHA to take on a lacklustre Warrington Buses) and those former villages now subsumed into the town like Barnton - something that Knutsford doesn’t have.
Knutsford probably does have more Manchester commuters and that probably indicates something. That GHA didn’t go for Warrington to Knutsford likewise, yet were prepared to take on the 82 - tells you something.
Looking at actual UK traffic count data, the average number of daily car journeys between Knutsford and both Altrincham and Warrington is consistently over 6,000 per day, while driving time is about 20 minutes to Altrincham and 30 minutes to Warrington (according to Google Maps). Those figures suggest that demand for road travel on both routes is about the same, and that an equal service level of public transport should therefore be viable on both routes.
TheGrandWazoo said:Ahem..... population of Knutsford is about 13,000. Using those figures in the manner you have suggests no one is left in the town during the day.
Ahem..... population of Knutsford is about 13,000. Using those figures in the manner you have suggests no one is left in the town during the day.
Ahem..... population of Knutsford is about 13,000. Using those figures in the manner you have suggests no one is left in the town during the day.
Does it? Aren't you assuming that no-one commutes into Knutsford to work? And what about the other daily journeys made to/from the west, south and east (circa 11k, 9k and 9k) - I would hope that the traffic counters are correct!
"Between" means total of both directions, all day.
The A50 goes through Knutsford town centre. If you're going from Warrington to Macclesfield, for example, by car you go through Knutsford.
Off the top of my head I know people who commute TO Knutsford from Manchester, Altrincham, Hale, Didsbury, Salford, Wigan, Leigh, Lymm, Warrington, Macclesfield, Wilmslow, Middlewich, Winsford, Northwich, Delamere, Holmes Chapel, Nantwich, Crewe, Stoke, Prestbury and Lostock Gralam.
It worth noting most shop and cafe workers in Knutsford live outside the town and most Knutsford Academy pupils aren't from Knutsford.
As I’ve said before, will there be demand? I freely concede there will. Will it be viable - almost certainly not; after all, are Knutsford to Altrincham or Macc commercially viable?