Far-right protests

[Thirteen]

There was one in Whitehall but the police were very easily able to contain it and it saw 100 or so arrests, so I suspect further riots were deterred by this action.

The Met must have learnt from the 2011 riots to act quickly to contain any sort of disorder.

 

[RT4038]

Yes, but those of us who opposed and still disagree with Brexit do not go around throwing bricks at police officers, setting fire to buildings or threatening Brexiteers. Expressing your opinion in a civilised manner is fine: using violence and threats of violence randomly, even against those who are merely trying to keep order, isn’t.

Yes, you are right - however I'm not quite sure what that has to do with the 'underlying causes' referred to in post #73 or the shut up and accept the majority party and everything they may or may not do view of post #74. I don't think the General Election was in any way fought on the ticket of allowing/level of immigration or not (aside possibly from the Rwanda scheme).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2024 ==

That was 8 years ago, - nearly two terms of government ago and over 100 times the 4 weeks that @bahnause was referring to.

I think it started 4 minutes after the referendum result, let alone 4 weeks!

 

[jon0844]

Trying to kill asylum seekers in a hotel isn't in any way shape or form a valid way to raise concerns about our immigration policies.

These people need to be locked up for a very long time. And if they brought their kids then maybe social services need a word?

It's no surprise Farage has gone so quiet.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I will always be in favour of the right to protest and free speech even if what is being said is hateful bile but when that crosses over into physically attacking the police, assaulting innocent members of the public and rioting/looting then it must be shut down and punished. That goes for any kind of protest from any sort of group. Whatever ”legitimate concerns“ these “protestors“ have doesn’t in any way justify criminal activity and I am sure the real “silent majority“ feel the same way.

100%

 

[SuspectUsual]

I don't think the General Election was in any way fought on the ticket of allowing/level of immigration or not (aside possibly from the Rwanda scheme).

Really?!?

It was the centre of Reform's campaign.

Their "contract" had a number of pledges, and the first two were about immigration (broadly) and stopping the boats (specifically)

 

[jon0844]

Really?!?

It was the centre of Reform's campaign.

Their "contract" had a number of pledges, and the first two were about immigration (broadly) and stopping the boats (specifically)

I would guess the majority of these scum, who bothered to vote, were voting Reform.

 

[Bantamzen]

A friend of mine recently made a thought-provoking comment on the whole issue of the recent riots and the reporting on them. He said simply why is there a disparity in how these are reported. In Harehills there was no mention of the type of people involved other than they being "locals" or residents", whereas the more recent rioting has been very specific about who has been involved, i.e. white men. That's not to say the latter isn't accurate, of course it is, but looking back over the different riots there does seem to be a disparity in how they are reported. And that has got me to thinking that this maybe highlights at least some of the issues underpinning the increass unrest in this country.

Now I know from personal experience that there are people out there, white working class people who rightly or wrongly do feel increasingly isolated from the rest of society. Everyday they see all sorts of divergence celebrated apart from their own, indeed in some quarters their heritage and being is lamented, blamed for all the world's ills. And it is this perception of increasing isolation that make some feel that this is deliberate, part of some greater plan, which in turn makes some people feel increasingly frustrated and angry. Add in the far right bias confirmation all over social media that this is indeed the case, and well you have the tinderpot ready to light, which in this case was the misinformation spread immediately after the awful events in Southport where the attacker was claimed to be a Muslim extremist fresh off a boat. I'm not saying any of this is acceptable by the way, just pointing out what I see to be the reality of the situation.

Of course things were not helped by the fact that the attacker's identity was kept from the public initially, it really should have been clear to the authorities that things were spiralling out of control on social media in the hours after the event. Simply stating that the attack was not terror related was never going to be enough and really they should have acted sooner. But Pandora's Box has been opened, and we now see a growing unrest in the country that needs to be addressed before things get worse. And we are not just talking about the far right hooligan crews acting as a rent-a-mob, we are talking about a good many people who are not necessarily racist bigots but who do feel that they are being somehow left behind. Lumping them all into a handy stereotype isn't going go be helpful because many people feeling this way are not befitting of such labels.

And let me tell you these people feeling this way aren't all run down council estate residents sitting at home on the dole, watching Sky TV all day and venting on social media. This country has an identity crisis that it needs to resolve. Otherwise more people will drift into the kinds of extreme violence seen in recent days.

 

[Leyland Bus]

R

Really?!?

It was the centre of Reform's campaign.

Their "contract" had a number of pledges, and the first two were about immigration (broadly) and stopping the boats (specifically)

Reforms "contract" (from a Ltd company) was basically a rehash of the National Fronts "policies" of the 1970s...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Trying to kill asylum seekers in a hotel isn't in any way shape or form a valid way to raise concerns about our immigration policies.

Absolutely correct.

 

[uglymonkey]

Difficult to put them in prison, as the prisons are full to overflowing and they are releasing everyone (according to some media) anyway.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Difficult to put them in prison, as the prisons are full to overflowing and they are releasing everyone (according to some media) anyway.

Wrong. It's easy to see how freely misinformation spreads on social media isn't it.

Per the previous Tory government, the current Labour government have said they need to continue to extend the early release of some prisoners who are not seen as a threat to society, earlier than ordinarily expected.

What credible media exactly are you quoting here?

 

[najaB]

Difficult to put them in prison, as the prisons are full to overflowing and they are releasing everyone (according to some media) anyway.

They're not "releasing everyone". As far as I know it's been non-violent offenders who are in the last three(?) months of their sentence.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Wrong. It's easy to see how freely misinformation spreads on social media isn't it.

Per the previous Tory government, the current Labour government have said they need to continue to extend the early release of some prisoners who are not seen as a threat to society, earlier than ordinarily expected.

What credible media exactly are you quoting here?

Correct.

They're not "releasing everyone". As far as I know it's been non-violent offenders who are in the last three(?) months of their sentence.

Correct.

I am emphasizing correct information!

 

[RT4038]

A friend of mine recently made a thought-provoking comment on the whole issue of the recent riots and the reporting on them. He said simply why is there a disparity in how these are reported. In Harehills there was no mention of the type of people involved other than they being "locals" or residents", whereas the more recent rioting has been very specific about who has been involved, i.e. white men. That's not to say the latter isn't accurate, of course it is, but looking back over the different riots there does seem to be a disparity in how they are reported. And that has got me to thinking that this maybe highlights at least some of the issues underpinning the increass unrest in this country.

Now I know from personal experience that there are people out there, white working class people who rightly or wrongly do feel increasingly isolated from the rest of society. Everyday they see all sorts of divergence celebrated apart from their own, indeed in some quarters their heritage and being is lamented, blamed for all the world's ills. And it is this perception of increasing isolation that make some feel that this is deliberate, part of some greater plan, which in turn makes some people feel increasingly frustrated and angry. Add in the far right bias confirmation all over social media that this is indeed the case, and well you have the tinderpot ready to light, which in this case was the misinformation spread immediately after the awful events in Southport where the attacker was claimed to be a Muslim extremist fresh off a boat. I'm not saying any of this is acceptable by the way, just pointing out what I see to be the reality of the situation.

Of course things were not helped by the fact that the attacker's identity was kept from the public initially, it really should have been clear to the authorities that things were spiralling out of control on social media in the hours after the event. Simply stating that the attack was not terror related was never going to be enough and really they should have acted sooner. But Pandora's Box has been opened, and we now see a growing unrest in the country that needs to be addressed before things get worse. And we are not just talking about the far right hooligan crews acting as a rent-a-mob, we are talking about a good many people who are not necessarily racist bigots but who do feel that they are being somehow left behind. Lumping them all into a handy stereotype isn't going go be helpful because many people feeling this way are not befitting of such labels.

And let me tell you these people feeling this way aren't all run down council estate residents sitting at home on the dole, watching Sky TV all day and venting on social media. This country has an identity crisis that it needs to resolve. Otherwise more people will drift into the kinds of extreme violence seen in recent days.

I think the political establishment is just ignoring these issues (of both immigration and of white working class) in the hopes it will somehow miraculously fade away. Much as people (myself included) do not want to see and experience disorder on our streets, from French peasants, to Suffragettes to NI Catholics - would any these (and many more) have got anywhere with their injustices if they had only done peaceful
non-inconveniencing protests?

The Government have announced a house building policy to build 1.5 million homes. This rather begs the question - are the new homes going to benefit indigenous Brits or really going to benefit immigrants by either providing them with new homes, or vacating existing rental properties for more immigrants to occupy?

I would guess the majority of these scum, who bothered to vote, were voting Reform.

Rather a lot of them, certainly a lot more than such parties got in the 1970s.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I think the political establishment is just ignoring these issues (of both immigration and of white working class) in the hopes it will somehow miraculously fade away. Much as people (myself included) do not want to see and experience disorder on our streets, from French peasants, to Suffragettes to NI Catholics - would any these (and many more) have got anywhere with their injustices if they had only done peaceful
non-inconveniencing protests?

A few days ago there was a piece on BBC News about the new Govt's house building policy to build 1.5 million homes. There was a report of some new social housing and film of their new occupants - immigrants. Which begs the question - are the new homes going to benefit indigenous Brits or really going to benefit immigrants by either providing them with nice new homes, or vacating existing rental properties for more immigrants to occupy?


Rather a lot of them, certainly a lot more than such parties got in the 1970s.

I personally think you are on fragile ground wanting to discuss only white working class where there have been British citizens of other skin colours in this country for millennia! Your definition of indigenous might prove interesting to glean as well?

I'm making a big assumption here but if the so-called working class want their "country back" and mean to take the British Isles back to a time in the past, when exactly are they looking to aim for in history? Does the ballot box and democratic system only work when they get exactly what they want and when they don't they want to burn the high streets down in anger & frustration?

I'm going to make another big assumption here that when these same individuals need medical care then they are happy to join a separate queue to be treated by their indigenous looking types only?

ps - Edit : there is no such thing as an indigenous British person. If anyone thinks they are, try studying genetics for a while and see what your DNA can tell you about yourself and your past

 

[Thornaby 37]

One question that needs to be asked of the mainstream media, why is the downright thuggery of the past week being referred to as "protests" ?

Those who descended on Southport to cause violent disorder don't represent the decent minded majority, and they most certainly don't represent grieving relatives of the three young children whose lives were brutally taken from them

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Ancient Briton, Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Normans, French Huguenot, Jews, Irish, West Indians, Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Chinese, Hong Kong etc and more.

Indigenous peoples would definitely need defining - clue- it can’t be!!

 

[renegademaster]

ps - Edit : there is no such thing as an indigenous British person. If anyone thinks they are, try studying genetics for a while and see what your DNA can tell you about yourself and your past

By that logic, theirs is no such thing as indigenous people anywhere apart from Ethiopia

 

[najaB]

Your definition of indigenous might prove interesting to glean as well?

Indeed. I was born in a British Army hospital in Germany to a first generation immigrant mother who came to support the NHS, while my father, also a first generation immigrant from the Caribbean, was literally putting himself on the rampart to protect the UK from the Soviet tanks on the other side of the Fulda gap. Both of whom had gone through the process to become British citizens before I was born.

Am I less "indigenous" than a the white child of a multi-generational benefits family just because of my skin colour?

 

[jon0844]

It's okay, Farage has come out to speak about opportunistic rioters and demanding action taken against them.

x.com

x.com

Hey @Nigel_Farage Remember in 2011 when you condemned "opportunistic" rioters who had "nothing to do with any political reason" and called for the "army on the streets? You seem to have changed your tune when it's the far-right opportunistically rioting in 2024.

Oh, sorry, that was back in 2011. He hasn't said anything about this yet.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Ancient Briton, Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Normans, French Huguenot, Jews, West Indians, Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Chinese, Hong Kong etc and more.

Indigenous peoples would definitely need defining - clue- it can’t be!!

We should embrace our single colourful species - the single species indigenous to planet Earth

 

[AM9]

Ancient Briton, Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Normans, French Huguenot, Jews, West Indians, Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Chinese, Hong Kong etc and more.

Indigenous peoples would definitely need defining - clue- it can’t be!!

To a UK racist, it's themself plus their mates and of course their hero Farage, descended from german nationalsl, .... wait a minute- they aren't indigenous, - oh! of course they are, they are white and have had sound political political priciples = especially where racial origins are concerned.

 

[Bantamzen]

I personally think you are on fragile ground wanting to discuss only white working class where there have been British citizens of other skin colours in this country for millennia! Your definition of indigenous might prove interesting to glean as well?

I'm making a big assumption here but if the so-called working class want their "country back" and mean to take the British Isles back to a time in the past, when exactly are they looking to aim for in history? Does the ballot box and democratic system only work when they get exactly what they want and when they don't they want to burn the high streets down in anger & frustration?

I'm going to make another big assumption here that when these same individuals need medical care then they are happy to join a separate queue to be treated by their indigenous looking types only?

ps - Edit : there is no such thing as an indigenous British person. If anyone thinks they are, try studying genetics for a while and see what your DNA can tell you about yourself and your past

It's not so much a case of "wanting their country back", it's more a case of wanting to feel part of it, which many people don't.

 

[brad465]

It's okay, Farage has come out to speak about opportunistic rioters and demanding action taken against them.

x.com

x.com

Oh, sorry, that was back in 2011. He hasn't said anything about this yet.

This week has been one of the greatest displays of hypocrisy possible by certain individuals, to name a few examples:

- "We must protect our country from immigrants who won't integrate in communities"... by looting and burning down our own communities.
- Disruptive Climate activists: "LOCK THEM UP AND THROW AWAY THE KEY!"; disruptive suspected far right activists: "It's time we listen to their concerns which have been ignored for too long."
- "We need to be tough on crime.", but not when the crime being committed is in the name of a cause I like.
- "This is a result of the white working class being ignored for too long.", but in literally any other situation the same "sympathisers" slam them as benefit scroungers or poor because they don't work hard enough.

I'm sure the hypocrisy exists in the other direction too for opposing groups' points of view, but mentioned these as they're topical right now.

 

[RT4038]

I personally think you are on fragile ground wanting to discuss only white working class where there have been British citizens of other skin colours in this country for millennia! Your definition of indigenous might prove interesting to glean as well?

This is true, but until 75 years ago they were a very small minority. Immigrants do not necessarily have a different skin colour. In the last 75 years there has been an explosion in immigration. There have been protests against it for a considerable time, Enoch Powell springs to mind, but politicians have pretty studiously ignored these. In the last 25 years, immigration has spread to every corner of the country.

I'm making a big assumption here but if the so-called working class want their "country back" and mean to take the British Isles back to a time in the past, when exactly are they looking to aim for in history?

I think it is a big assumption - I don't think anyone can be seriously looking to return the country to any particular point in history.

Does the ballot box and democratic system only work when they get exactly what they want and when they don't they want to burn the high streets down in anger & frustration?

The ballot box and democratic system does not work when a section of the population is constantly marginalised and left behind. Especially marginalised, left behind, despised and blamed for the ills of both now and the past.

I'm going to make another big assumption here that when these same individuals need medical care then they are happy to join a separate queue to be treated by their indigenous looking types only?

Perhaps that is part of the problem? I think you are making a mistake in trying to attribute this issue to racism (and shock horror nobody wants to be accused of that, so will keep silent and instead). Perhaps we should be looking a little closer at (for instance) the opportunities available to offspring of immigrant professionals vs. that of white working class children, and how the perpetuation of the inbalance of outcomes should be avoided in the future?

 

[Robin Edwards]

If you happen to feel threatened or worried that our green-and-pleasant country is being invaded in some way, by folk that look different, act different and prevent you or your family from having what you want in life, then you're likely one of the many millions of people who have inadvisedly accepted the narrative you have been sold and taught through media over many years. This narrative has been let out again like a genie from the lamp, since more recent times and our Brexit referendum in 2016 was a milestone where it can be seen that casual racism has returned in a way not seen for a few decades imho.
There are reasons why there are those out there who would like to divide people in Europe and US to advantage their own nations or desires for wealth and power. Teaching people to fight amongst themselves by telling them that some brown people are invading and taking all their houses, their jobs & livelihoods and abusing their women and children, is old hat. It's been done before. When comparisons are made to 1930s Germany, sure things were different but in other ways, the narrative to deceive ordinary people to hate and worse, is there in front of us all.
Those historians out there will know that four hundred years ago in UK and Europe, ordinary people were told and taught that the reason they were poor and hungry with crops failing due to very cold winters was because of some nasty, evil people who behaved differently and could be used to vent anger against. Witchcraft became fairly useful to Monarchs of the time in order to appease the unruly mob calling for blood. A precarious world, fear & uncertainty, a large helping of ignorance and heaps of deceit and misinformation and hey presto, a perfect storm to distract us to suit a very tiny minority of puppeteers. Here we are in 2024, deceived again and chasing the wrong narrative.

 

[najaB]

Perhaps we should be looking a little closer at (for instance) the opportunities available to offspring of immigrant professionals vs. that of white working class children, and how the perpetuation of the inbalance of outcomes should be avoided in the future?

Why does "immigrant" factor into this at all? Professionals of any origin are more able to provide educational support to their children.

That said, we have (in theory at least) equality of opportunity. If there's disparity in outcomes then the blame likely lies closer to home.

 

[RT4038]

If you happen to feel threatened or worried that our green-and-pleasant country is being invaded in some way, by folk that look different, act different and prevent you or your family from having what you want in life, then you're likely one of the many millions of people who have inadvisedly accepted the narrative you have been sold and taught through media over many years. This narrative has been let out again like a genie from the lamp, since more recent times and our Brexit referendum in 2016 was a milestone where it can be seen that casual racism has returned in a way not seen for a few decades imho.
There are reasons why there are those out there who would like to divide people in Europe and US to advantage their own nations or desires for wealth and power. Teaching people to fight amongst themselves by telling them that some brown people are invading and taking all their houses, their jobs & livelihoods and abusing their women and children, is old hat. It's been done before. When comparisons are made to 1930s Germany, sure things were different but in other ways, the narrative to deceive ordinary people to hate and worse, is there in front of us all.
Those historians out there will know that four hundred years ago in UK and Europe, ordinary people were told and taught that the reason they were poor and hungry with crops failing due to very cold winters was because of some nasty, evil people who behaved differently and could be used to vent anger against. Witchcraft became fairly useful to Monarchs of the time in order to appease the unruly mob calling for blood. A precarious world, fear & uncertainty, a large helping of ignorance and heaps of deceit and misinformation and hey presto, a perfect storm to distract us to suit a very tiny minority of puppeteers. Here we are in 2024, deceived again and chasing the wrong narrative.

Ah, so the other narrative is all alright then, and when it turns out not to be , it'll be too late......

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Apparently some people think that people who beat up people of colour or who riot whilst saying that they want their country back and call anyone who suggests they might be wrong not british anymore aren't necessarily racist. Which does make me wonder what exactly they would need to do in order to be labelled racist.

 

[Robin Edwards]

The ballot box and democratic system does not work when a section of the population is constantly marginalised and left behind. Especially marginalised, left behind, despised and blamed for the ills of both now and the past.

So nothing new then. We've all just endured 14 years of a government where 3 out of every 4 people hadn't voted for them. Why is it different this time? Why don't those on the right work over time to change the system rather than behave like petulant mobs?

I sense strong smell of victim-playing by those who are a minority and want to take vengeance because they just don't like what they have, little of which has been made for them by the new government.