Fare evasion please help

[kw]

I travelled to Cardiff on arriva trains on rugby match day so carriages were very busy, conductor didn't come along and when I had I said about it girls by my side said just say you got on at Bridgend if anyone asks,even though I hadn't, not realising the severity of this until now and stupidly and even though I was slightly intocicated when I got to Cardiff I went to ticket desk and said ticket from Bridgend, immediately another gentleman said how did you get through the barrier stupidly I said I just walked through, I've not been on trains in about 5 years, again this doesn't excuse me I said ok port talbot he identified himself with name badge asked me to step aside said he was revenue officer and I had to go through question sheet and said I was being cautioned I panicked and asked was I being arrested. He said no you'll get letter in post and have to pay charge for ticket and an administration charge. Gave me piece of paper detailing the offence.

I've never done anything so stupid in my life and for the sake of saving pence I've done this, I've never been in trouble with anything ever and it's totally out of character to have done this, I hate lying, I can't eat, sleep through worry which I know ultimately won't help now.
Will they check cctv at stations and trains?
Now I'm so worried will I get a criminal record from this? I've got holiday to America coming up and worried I'll now started process of applying to police force I feel I've jeopardised everything.

 

[yorkie]

My advice is to admit it, apologise and offer to settle the matter out of court.

For a first offence, there is a good chance they will agree to this.

It's actually in the interests of both parties to settle the matter before it reaches court, though there are no guarantees they will agree to this.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Just regarding the visit to the US - the requirements of their Visa Waiver Program aren't actually as black-and-white as they are sometimes made out to be - they use the undefined term "moral turpitude" which can be read as excluding minor offences.

Also, the US authorities do not have routine access to UK records on convictions or arrests (e.g. the PNC).

Loads of people travel to the US without declaring minor convictions (and indeed arrests) without a problem. Even if you were to were ultimately to end up with a conviction as a result, I don't think you should worry about that in terms of a holiday to the US.

I should add the disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer or immigration specialist.

 

[najaB]

Short faring (paying for a shorter journey than you actually took) is an offence, and one of the easiest cases for the TOC to win in court.

That said, as yorkie said above, it's in the TOC's interest to settle if they believe that it was a one-off and isn't likely to be repeated.

 

[pemma]

It might be worth saying when you're going to the US and how long for. It might be your trip is sooner than Arriva Trains Wales could take you to court, if they were to choose that course of action. Also if you are away for a long time while they are investigating they may send you a proposed out-of-court settlement while you are away, which you'd need to respond to so that you don't finish up being taken to court.

 

[Ashlaarr]

This happened to me Friday as well! Silly silly us

 

[6Gman]

I travelled to Cardiff on arriva trains on rugby match day so carriages were very busy, conductor didn't come along and when I had I said about it girls by my side said just say you got on at Bridgend if anyone asks,even though I hadn't, not realising the severity of this until now and stupidly and even though I was slightly intocicated when I got to Cardiff I went to ticket desk and said ticket from Bridgend, immediately another gentleman said how did you get through the barrier stupidly I said I just walked through, I've not been on trains in about 5 years, again this doesn't excuse me I said ok port talbot he identified himself with name badge asked me to step aside said he was revenue officer and I had to go through question sheet and said I was being cautioned I panicked and asked was I being arrested. He said no you'll get letter in post and have to pay charge for ticket and an administration charge. Gave me piece of paper detailing the offence.

I've never done anything so stupid in my life and for the sake of saving pence I've done this, I've never been in trouble with anything ever and it's totally out of character to have done this, I hate lying, I can't eat, sleep through worry which I know ultimately won't help now.
Will they check cctv at stations and trains?
Now I'm so worried will I get a criminal record from this? I've got holiday to America coming up and worried I'll now started process of applying to police force I feel I've jeopardised everything.

I'm assuming you got on at Port Talbot?

Is there a reason you didn't buy your ticket there?

 

[Mag_seven]

girls by my side said just say you got on at Bridgend if anyone asks

There seems to be a bit of a culture of "short faring" in South Wales. I wonder if those "girls" also tried to short fare?

 

[pemma]

I wonder if those "girls" also tried to short fare?

It's not impossible that they tried to be overheard deliberately and then waited to see if anyone tried to get away with it before doing it themselves.

 

[kw]

I feel sick at the thought I've done this, I didn't buy tickets before getting on as usually buy tickets when on train, as where I live there's no ticket office so it's what I've done whenever travelled on train and being intoxicated wasn't thinking straight either and I'm not from the area as I live over 2 hour drive away. I was travelling with friends.
So worried and angry at myself.

 

[kw]

Just regarding the visit to the US - the requirements of their Visa Waiver Program aren't actually as black-and-white as they are sometimes made out to be - they use the undefined term "moral turpitude" which can be read as excluding minor offences.

Also, the US authorities do not have routine access to UK records on convictions or arrests (e.g. the PNC).

Loads of people travel to the US without declaring minor convictions (and indeed arrests) without a problem. Even if you were to were ultimately to end up with a conviction as a result, I don't think you should worry about that in terms of a holiday to the US.

I should add the disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer or immigration specialist.

I'm due to go to the USA in the summer and next March.

 

[StarCrossing]

Could you please confirm whether you boarded at Port Talbot or another station? It's not 100% clear which of the following is the case here:
1) You initially lied, but later told the truth.
2) You initially lied, then gave a different lie, and your second lie was accepted.

You will get better advice if you clear this point up.

 

[Master29]

Judging by the fact there is a similar thread posted at around the same time as the rugby I think the TOC`s were aware of this and may have collared a few this weekend.

 

[bb21]

As Port Talbot has a ticket office open on all days and at times I would have imagined that you travelled, I think you may need to admit your understanding now that not buying a ticket at the ticket office when you started your journey is an offence too, when it comes to replying to their letter.

 

[Haywain]

Judging by the fact there is a similar thread posted at around the same time as the rugby I think the TOC`s were aware of this and may have collared a few this weekend.

Rich and easy pickings it seems. There will be many who don't come here looking for advice as well. I seem to recall a couple of threads last time Wales had a home match as well.

 

[cuccir]

I'm due to go to the USA in the summer and next March.

Don't worry about the States trip. http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/travelling-to-the-usa-the-esta-form-and-moral-turpitude/This website gives advice and quotes from the Electronic System for Travel Authorisation (ESTA) guidance:

This question refers to crimes involving moral turpitude – such offences generally involve conduct which is inherently base, vile or depraved and contrary to the accepted rules of morality and the duties owed to persons or society in general. There are factors, such as the age of the offender or the date of the offence that may affect whether an offence will be considered a crime involving moral turpitude for purposes of the Immigration and Nationality Act’.

The website doesn't discuss railway tickets, but it does list several more serious offences which are not considered to involve moral turpitude eg Damaging private property, Breaking and entering, Tax evasion, Drunk or reckless driving, Escape from prison, Assault (simple), Involuntary manslaughter... from this I would infer that attempting to purchase a short-fare rail ticket is not sufficient for 'moral turpitude'!

With regards to the case - have a look at StarCrossing's questions. Generally speaking, though, you should wait for contact from the train company. When it comes reply saying how sorry you were and you are willing to pay to settle this matter. If they refuse this then you can consider your next steps.

 

[Paule23]

I feel sick at the thought I've done this, I didn't buy tickets before getting on as usually buy tickets when on train, as where I live there's no ticket office so it's what I've done whenever travelled on train and being intoxicated wasn't thinking straight either and I'm not from the area as I live over 2 hour drive away. I was travelling with friends.
So worried and angry at myself.

I thought you said you'd not been in trains in 5 years, yet here you say you normally buy in the train.

If you want help there's no point lying or at least being economical with the truth on here. Be clear what happened and you will get good advice. Be evasive or get caught in a lie and people won't bother helping.

Best advice has already been given, wait for a letter and if you get an option to give your side, admit your error and offer costs and compensation. Although if the letter refers to potential fraud prosecution or RoRA, come back here fore more advice.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Judging by the fact there is a similar thread posted at around the same time as the rugby I think the TOC`s were aware of this and may have collared a few this weekend.

Rich and easy pickings it seems. There will be many who don't come here looking for advice as well. I seem to recall a couple of threads last time Wales had a home match as well.

I wonder if Welsh rugby clubs might do well to remind their members that ticket checks are common and tickets should be purchased before travelling if possible.

 

[Fare-Cop]

There seems to be a bit of a culture of "short faring" in South Wales.

ATW have clearly recognised this hence the 'hard line' now being taken on alleged offenders.

The ATW published 're-education policy', with a strongly worded message on the posters & signs, began more than 5 years ago.

Many on here will remember their 'SMUG' posters, which were put up at stations all over the network and which drew much comment on the forums at the time.

 

[kw]

Could you please confirm whether you boarded at Port Talbot or another station? It's not 100% clear which of the following is the case here:
1) You initially lied, but later told the truth.
2) You initially lied, then gave a different lie, and your second lie was accepted.

You will get better advice if you clear this point up.

Thank you all for your comments & advice so far,
Yes I did number 2 lied and lied what have I done!!
I can't even begin to explain why I lied, why I lied in first place and fear now I have jeopardised my future, I don't want to be named in a newspaper or on social media for this and cause embarrassment and shame to my family and also the shame of my friends knowing, I'm always the one they call goody 2 shoes and the fact that they know how strongly I feel about lying!!! I'm now a hypocrite and feel so sick of what the outcome will be.
It's completely out of character and as much as its not an excuse, the only reason I can see I would have lied is through drinking alcohol.
The last time I went on a train is 3.5 years of which the rural station has no means of buying a ticket & I honestly didn't know it was an offence to not buy a ticket before boarding a train.
Do I phone them up and tell them what's happened or wait to receive letter from them?

 

[kw]

Also will I be band off trains for life after this?

 

[kw]

Had forgot I went on train 3.5 years ago, prior to this was 1.5 years before this time. if train station has no means to buy ticket before boarding train, how do you get a ticket?

 

[mikeg]

Also will I be band off trains for life after this?

No, only a handful of persistent fare evaders have been banned from the railways in recent years and usual ly (not always) when combined with other offences, such as begging or stealing. Please don't let these unfortunate events put you off using the railways, they're often a good means of getting around and can be enjoyable in themselves.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you all for your comments & advice so far,
Yes I did number 2 lied and lied what have I done!!
I can't even begin to explain why I lied, why I lied in first place and fear now I have jeopardised my future, I don't want to be named in a newspaper or on social media for this and cause embarrassment and shame to my family and also the shame of my friends knowing, I'm always the one they call goody 2 shoes and the fact that they know how strongly I feel about lying!!! I'm now a hypocrite and feel so sick of what the outcome will be.
It's completely out of character and as much as its not an excuse, the only reason I can see I would have lied is through drinking alcohol.
The last time I went on a train is 3.5 years of which the rural station has no means of buying a ticket & I honestly didn't know it was an offence to not buy a ticket before boarding a train.
Do I phone them up and tell them what's happened or wait to receive letter from them?

What is the truth then?

Only if we know the full truth will we be in a position to help properly.

 

[Clip]

Thank you all for your comments & advice so far,
Yes I did number 2 lied and lied what have I done!!
I can't even begin to explain why I lied, why I lied in first place and fear now I have jeopardised my future, I don't want to be named in a newspaper or on social media for this and cause embarrassment and shame to my family and also the shame of my friends knowing, I'm always the one they call goody 2 shoes and the fact that they know how strongly I feel about lying!!! I'm now a hypocrite and feel so sick of what the outcome will be.
It's completely out of character and as much as its not an excuse, the only reason I can see I would have lied is through drinking alcohol.
The last time I went on a train is 3.5 years of which the rural station has no means of buying a ticket & I honestly didn't know it was an offence to not buy a ticket before boarding a train.
Do I phone them up and tell them what's happened or wait to receive letter from them?

First off calm down. There is nothing you can do now until the letter has arrived. Its done, you got caught. Worrying yourself sick over it isnt going to help you at all and only make you feel worse.

Wait till they write to you so you know what they are going to charge you with, then come here and people will give you advice on how to proceed with what the letter says.

You cant change what has happened so just focus on your life now and wait.