Evidence for this is?I'm not saying I advocate this approach, but it is Off Peak tickets that cause the vast majority of anomalies and therefore confusion.
Evidence for this is?I'm not saying I advocate this approach, but it is Off Peak tickets that cause the vast majority of anomalies and therefore confusion.
Evidence for this is?
Neil, not everybody likes to micro-manage every aspect of their journey as much as you would have them. One attractive thing about the railway is the aspect of turn up and go: ie you can pay a reasonable price and not worry about having to pick a specific time, or have to rush to buy an Advance as soon as the meeting's finished. I don't mean any offence by this but your fixation on single leg pricing borders on the absurd at times.With such a concept, more Advances would be available - potentially every seat, at variable prices up to the Anytime. You can look at most TOCs' First Class pricing (but reduced) to see how that would work.
CrossCountry's approach to simplifying Off Peak ticketing was to introduce a blanket 'not before 09:30' restriction which is entirely reasonable and understandable.
I wouldn't say the number of anomalies is 'huge' at all. Other than the obvious one, where it's sometimes cheaper to split at the first calling point after 0930, what other examples do you have?And creates a huge number of anomalies. Think about it.
I wouldn't say the number of anomalies is 'huge' at all. Other than the obvious one, where it's sometimes cheaper to split at the first calling point after 0930, what other examples do you have?
The 09:30 restriction, whilst by no means perfect, is 'simple'.
Very long journeys are, as you like to say, a niche requirement.It also makes Off Peak tickets irrelevant for some very long journeys because you can't possibly complete in a day starting after 09:30.
It only causes confusion because gateline assistants don't want to/can't be bothered to look it up. Peak/off-peak restrictions are very easily automated - NRE manages it with little bother.The huge confusion caused by ticket restrictions, mainly.
It only causes confusion because gateline assistants don't want to/can't be bothered to look it up. Peak/off-peak restrictions are very easily automated - NRE manages it with little bother.
You could theoretically, for good or bad, simplify Off Peak restrictions down to maybe 5 types, such as:Gateline assistants haven't been bothered to learn/look up these things since time immemorial. There have been so many different approaches to training these people that I think we can safely say that more training isn't the answer.
So what is?
Gateline assistants haven't been bothered to learn/look up these things since time immemorial. There have been so many different approaches to training these people that I think we can safely say that more training isn't the answer.
So what is?
This would be publicly accessible and the definitive "yes or no", any gateline staff refusing to use it would be summarily replaced.
A webpage which takes the ticket restriction code source and destination, a station name, a train time, and a train destination, and tells you if the ticket is valid
...
This would be publicly accessible and the definitive "yes or no", any gateline staff refusing to use it would be summarily replaced.
You could theoretically, for good or bad, simplify Off Peak restrictions down to maybe 5 types, such as:
Not before 0930
Not before 0930 or between 1630 and 1830
Not valid on trains which reach London before 0930 or leave between 1630 and 1830
Super Off Peak varieties could be further reduced, again to a maximum of 5, and allowing discrimination based on day as well as time.
It'd then be 'simplified' without taking the draconian step of abolition.
I wouldn't say the number of anomalies is 'huge' at all. Other than the obvious one, where it's sometimes cheaper to split at the first calling point after 0930, what other examples do you have?
The 09:30 restriction, whilst by no means perfect, is 'simple'.
This is the solution. If you know the origin, destination, location, ticket type and current time it really isn't hard to lookup if a ticket is valid or not.The easiest way for gateline staff to find out if a ticket is valid would be QR codes on all ticekts and them to have a reader.
That isn't going to solve the problem of incompetent gateline/revenue staff though. A single definiton of off peak, written on the face of the ticket would solve most problems.
Not sure if it's still included on the new ticket format but don't forget the nationalrail.co.uk short URLs for validity codes eg;
nationalrail.co.uk/DJ
Computers can also be reprogrammed much more easily to deal with exceptions and easements - for example when rules are eased during summer holidays, etc.Computers implement business logic consistently. People don't. The logic doesn't need to get simpler, it just needs the implementation to be less reliant on inconsistent humans.
Computers can also be reprogrammed much more easily to deal with exceptions and easements - for example when rules are eased during summer holidays, etc.
Very true.The problem is that many railway staff deny this exists. Many of those who claim to know what it is simply ignore it.
Unfortunately many on the railway can only cope with a "computer says no" or "computer says yes" situation. Complex statement like "This does not not apply if passengers hold tickets for through journeys, i.e. if a change of train is required at one of these five stations to complete their journey. " lead to misery.
Computers implement business logic consistently. People don't. The logic doesn't need to get simpler, it just needs the implementation to be less reliant on inconsistent humans.
It is very simple, but by no means perfect:
1. It applies across the board, with no regard for loadings. For example the 0912 HST heading south-west from Birmingham New Street was, at the time I used to cover it regularly a few years back, about a third full. The 0942 Voyager was quite the opposite. A sensible approach would have been to allow Off-Peak on that train to spread the load, once the crowds from Derby/Burton/Tamworth had got off.
2. It applies to all flows priced by Cross Country with no regard for anything else around them. So Reading - Bournemouth, for example, would be 0930 or later, but Twyford - Bournemouth (priced by GWR) was earlier.
If the aim is to protect the business market travelling to Birmingham, Leeds, Sheffield, Bristol or wherever, then you don't need the same instrument to manage leisure traffic going against the flow.
Not a problem. 'Not valid to arrive $TOWN_NEAR_BIGCITY between 1630 and $TIME_IT_TAKES_TO_GET_TOTOWN_NEAR_BIG_CITY'.But the problem with any "departing" restriction is that there are still anomalies, such as an effective Off Peak bar on trains late in the evening just because they happened to originate from London in the evening peak even though they are not even nearly busy.
So, how do you propose that works at stations where the use of trains stood side by side may be impacted differently by the wording of the restriction code? For example, if a restriction states the ticket is not valid on trains "arriving in London before hh:mm" and a London bound train is standing alongside a train bound for a different destination but covering much of the same route. Unfortunately, even what appears to be black & white may actually involve others points on a scale of greys.Having a QR code an scanner encoding the data on the ticket, and then saying "yes" or "no" against the next few trains leaving the station, with most importantly a publicly accessibly webpage with the same information, isn't hard.
No, it's poor customer service. No member of staff has to take orders from customers.If they refuse to scan, that's not just "incompetence", it's insubordination. If it beeps "yes", but they still say no, it's not just "incompetence", it's insubordination.
Oh dear. Sad to say that nobody ever tries to explain to staff what the mag stripe does and how, and how little information it carries. Similarly, there is a lack of knowledge about what a barcode on a ticket may actually contain.After a fares workshop a few months ago, someone claiming to be a "manager" for VTEC tried to lecture me into believing that the restriction codes are encoded into magnetic stripes of tickets and that gates can determine which tickets are valid, and any ticket rejected is invalid. He refused to look up the actual restriction but let the customer through regardless after a lot of fuss.
Given that I've had people who are responsible for programming barriers asking me for advice, and am well aware of the limitations of the systems, I wasn't going to be fooled.
So, how do you propose that works at stations where the use of trains stood side by side may be impacted differently by the wording of the restriction code? For example, if a restriction states the ticket is not valid on trains "arriving in London before hh:mm" and a London bound train is standing alongside a train bound for a different destination but covering much of the same route. Unfortunately, even what appears to be black & white may actually involve others points on a scale of greys.
No, it's poor customer service. No member of staff has to take orders from customers.
Oh dear. Sad to say that nobody ever tries to explain to staff what the mag stripe does and how, and how little information it carries. Similarly, there is a lack of knowledge about what a barcode on a ticket may actually contain.
Not a problem. 'Not valid to arrive $TOWN_NEAR_BIGCITY between 1630 and $TIME_IT_TAKES_TO_GET_TOTOWN_NEAR_BIG_CITY'.
Problem solved.
A QR code is (or should be) an open standard, anyone can scan it and see exactly what data is there.
Which is my point - the problem isn't the restrictions, it's that *people* don't understand them. Computers do though.But then that's getting complicated, and heads towards what we have already anyway.