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Fastech 360

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Mojo

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The Fastech 360 is the new train which is going to enter service on the JR East (Japan) in 2011.

If you liked the 37s for their noses, then check out this one
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/FASTECH_360-S.JPG
http://withrailsforever.chitosedori.com/image/kabegami/fastech360s aro 800.jpg

They are fitted with air flaps to assist with braking in an emergency
http://blog.sanriotown.com/yingdong:hellokitty.com/files/2007/07/07073105_fastech360_nekomimi_01.jpg
http://www.shivaranjan.com/shivaupload/bullet/Fastech_360S_t.jpg

And knowing the Japanese Moe cult, companies have produced models
http://lottie.up.seesaa.net/image/06C29Fastech360.jpg
and costumes
http://image.www.rakuten.co.jp/miacos/img10543027031.jpeg
of the "Nekomimi Shinkansen" (cat-eared Shinkansen)
 
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Death

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What is it with the Japanese and their seriously absurd designs for the bodywork on their high-speed trains? :roll:
Every time I see a picture of a Shinkansen-700, I can't help but think "Quack quack" for some reason... :lol::razz:

Ye know...I'm just dreading what the next Shinkansen design will look like... :shock::roll::lol:
>> Death <<
 

16CSVT2700

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Disgusting design!! Those japanese are weird!
That nose is an eyesore to me!
 

Death

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Aye...Could ye imagine the uproar and associated p***taking that would fill the media if VT or NXEC tried to introduce a train that looked like that? :lol::shock::roll:

On the other hand I can see one advantage to a "long nose" design like the F-360's, and that's much more of an available "crumple zone" in the event of a head-on collision. :)
 

16CSVT2700

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Aye that would be the only advantage along with aerodynamics.. but that is pushing it a bit too far over the functionality/stupidity line
 

Chafford1

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Aye...Could ye imagine the uproar and associated p***taking that would fill the media if VT or NXEC tried to introduce a train that looked like that? :lol::shock::roll:

If it ran at 320km/h (199mph) like the Fastech will in commercial service in 2011, I don't think anyone would be complaining!

Interesting that the designs of each end of the unit differ - apparently for aerodynamic reasons.


http://video.aol.com/video-detail/fastech360sz-test-models-of-shinkansen-bullet-train-jpn/1453248436
 

LucaZone

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Since when did trains atarted getting two tone paint??

And I wonder why the japs have never gone for the rail speed record like the french do? Assuming the Maglev 500Kph thing doesnt count because its merely a test vehicle.
 

bluemeansgo

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Those trains are actually pretty cool. I love the cockpit on the front. I don't know why people think they're ugly, they just aren't designed in a conservative fashion.

This isn't exactly a pretty set of trains:
topM1_vx_fra_tgv_bay_706.jpg
 

will1337

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Those air flaps look ridiculous, a train capable of 320 kph shouldn't look like a small fluffy animal it should have at least look powerful IMO, like the TGV.

Death, have you seen the Spanish Talgo 350? They are really quack, or whatever noise a platypus makes.
 

jopsuk

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What I don't get with this model is that the two ends are of different designs- surely that's going to make it more efficient (read: faster) in one direction? Anyone actually know the reason for doing it this way?

I think the reason the Japanese tend not to go for speed runs is that the lines are too busy- the latest french speed run was, after all, done on a line that wasn't even officially open at the time. Speed run require clear track, and ideally (as you don't quite know what effect they might have) no trains on the adjacent track.
At least for the latest record they minimised the "pimping" of the train- previous record sets have genuinely had larger wheels, lowered suspension and spoilers. Chav-tastic.
 

bluemeansgo

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What I don't get with this model is that the two ends are of different designs- surely that's going to make it more efficient (read: faster) in one direction? Anyone actually know the reason for doing it this way?
I believe it's to test the different aerodynamic designs to see which one works better in practice. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides have different teams of aerodynamic engineers in competition with each other.

I think the reason the Japanese tend not to go for speed runs is that the lines are too busy- the latest French speed run was, after all, done on a line that wasn't even officially open at the time. Speed run require clear track, and ideally (as you don't quite know what effect they might have) no trains on the adjacent track.

Yes, that and the fact that Japan is a country built on Volcanoes and fault lines. This being so, they have tonnes of tunnels in order to meet the minimum curve radius of 4000m on all new Shinkansen lines (the old standard on the Tokyo - Osaka run is a 2500m radius).

Actually tunnels are another reason that they can't go much faster. When trains enter a tunnel at such a high speed they have a LOUD BOOM! Shinkansen trains on the Tokyo Osaka route go through a lot of populated places. Given that during rush hour, those train run on a 4-5 headway the noise pollution is a big factor limiting their speed. This is also why I believe a LOT of money and technology has been put into making trains quieter and quieter. I believe Shinkansen trains are a lot quieter than TGV, as Japanese environmental quality standards for shinkansen railway noise are among the strictest in the world. This is another reason Mag-lev is an attractive technology.

Those air flaps look ridiculous, a train capable of 320 kph shouldn't look like a small fluffy animal it should have at least look powerful IMO, like the TGV.
"Air Brakes" are actually an innovative idea for trains. Whether one thinks they're "too cute" for a train, they serve a useful purpose. Slowing the train down. The Japanese are crazy about Safety and Punctuality (not a bad thing, considering the high speeds and the fact that you're carrying up to 1000 people/train every 5 minutes during the rush hour). TGV don't look more powerful if you ask me. They look more boxy and stub-nosed. What looks more powerful, an A380 or an F-18? I guess it's opinion, but I've always felt that the more sleek and streamlined a train looks, the more effortless it appears to make speed be. Like, as if it's nothing to travel at such high speeds.

Shinkansen trains have only been derailed once, because of an Earthquake 4 years ago, and there were no serious injuries. At the time it was travelling 210km/h and stopped in 1600m. It was a 10 car train, but a lot of these trains are 14-16 cars long... and carry over 1000 people. That's a lot of weight to stop in a short period of time. There have been no deaths causes by Shinkansen.

The Fastech 360 train won't run at 360km/h mostly because of tunnel booms (noise pollution), overhead wire wear (cost), and stop distances (safety), though it is designed to operate regularly at that speed. I'm sure no one would complain about how "cute" the train looks when going at that speed. Lion cubs are cute, but you probably still don't want to mess with one. Besides the Japanese have built up an entire industry around cute and this actually adds to the appeal of the train. The idea that a train must look masculine and tough because it goes fast is a tad ridiculous. Some of the fastest fish in the world are Sailfish and Tuna... both which have funny fin-like protrusions and LONG snouts. At these speeds, air becomes more like water, in that you have to push it out of the way.
163122743_ee25b78243.jpg
blue_marlin_surfacing.jpg


Bear in mind that although the new Mag-lev is indeed a test track, as of last November, construction to go ahead with the Chuo Shinkansen (Mag-lev) was approved using this technology.

The French test run was amazing but as was mentioned, was done on an empty track that isn't yet opened (aka test track) with no trains on the opposite rail. The new Mag-lev (581km/h) still holds the record, test track or not, and has demonstrated passing another train at a combined speed of more than 1000km/h. Pretty amazing accomplishment, if you ask me. (Is that considered 1Mm/h? :D)

In addition, this test track will be implemented into the main line when it is built, so I guess it's kind of like running a train on an empty track that isn't yet opened.

I guess style is in the eye of the beholder, but I'm a huge fan of the "short-nosed" version, with the "cockpit"

Airbrakes aren't different than flaps on aeroplanes, after all. They help to slow down the vehicle.
 

will1337

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I don't disagree that the air flaps seem a rather good idea and guess that not too many people will see the train from a dead on angle anyway. However on the subject of aeroplanes, if maglev takes off more, becomes more economically viable and increases in speed, I wonder if they could end up with a Concorde like moveable nose to decrease/increase the aerodynamics. Probably wouldn't work but it's just an idea.
 

jopsuk

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Ah, so the "production" model will likely have identical ends then? Makes more sense.

They do have some seriously ugly beasts at work on Shinkansen services- though I think we could forgive the looks of the E4 Series if we had that sort of thing plying its way on our mainlines...

As balance to the French using a special set on an empty line to set their record, they did, remember, do it with double decker passenger cars with the world's press on board.
 

bluemeansgo

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Yeah, the E4 series is not my favorite.

You know, I find that Japanese trains look less like trains and more like space-ships. Then again, who are we to judge what another culture finds to be beautiful, eh?
 

vc-10

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Very sleek that 500 Series one. Don't like the interior though, it's a bit to airline for my liking, complete with 5 abreast seating! The prettiest high speed trains are definitely the ICE 3s though...
 

bluemeansgo

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I preferred the 400 series. However, currently, The 700T Series is my favorite.

The ICE3's are too busy for me. I prefer simple smooth lines. Probably why I tend to like Asian rolling stock more than European.
 

Death

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Hail All! <D
I guess style is in the eye of the beholder, but I'm a huge fan of the "short-nosed" version, with the "cockpit"
Aye...I've never actually ridden a Shinkansen, but I've seen the Series-0 front car that's on display at the NRM. Even though the design is clearly taken from the average Boeing aircraft with the wings cut off, it - Along with the 500 and 700T series - Is the most sensible and practical design of Shinkansen IMO. :)

Incidentally...Has anyone ever observed how - Despite the fact that it runs on exactly the same track gauge as our own trains - The Shinkansen has a very wide loading guage? After seeing the one at the NRM, I do wonder if it'd be possible to overbalance one of those on a bend by shifting all of the weight to one side of the car... :shock:
Airbrakes aren't different than flaps on aeroplanes, after all. They help to slow down the vehicle.
Air-brakes or no, I'm just waiting for Disney to sue JR over the appearance of the Fastech 360 when those brakes are deployed! :lol::D:razz:
Then there's the sleek 500 series 8) Me likes :D
Very sleek that 500 Series one. Don't like the interior though, it's a bit to airline for my liking, complete with 5 abreast seating! The prettiest high speed trains are definitely the ICE 3s though...
Aye, the 500-series is certainly a nice piece of kit...Though admittedly the end cars do vaguely resemble door-stops to my own eye! :lol:
It's a real pity that the things are so expensive to produce, otherwise JR would probabally have stuck with them...And we wouldn't have become subjected to the "Platypus" that is the 700-series. :)

On that note though: With the same frame of mind that I could get the APT to leave a Pendo choking on the dust I'd kick up in passing, I wonder if I could get a 0-Series to beat the 500's record? 8-);)

Farewell... <D
>> Death <<
 

bluemeansgo

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I've ridden the 700 series Nozomi. Smoothest ride I've ever been on. You could whisper over the noise it made.

The more i look at the Fastech 360, the more it looks like the nicest trainset yet (the Stream-Line design, not the Arrow)
img_06.jpg


Also, the more I think about it, the more Mag-lev makes sense for UK. I mean, why use technology which is reaching its limits?

It's a little like computers... if you're upgrading an antiquated Commodore 64 you don't update to a Pentium, you update to an Intel Quad-core or an IBM Cell computer.

While the rest of Europe doesn't have a huge reason to ditch their Pentiums, for a marginal productivity and speed gain (in relation to dollars spent), Britain has a LOT to gain from upgrading their Commodore 64 tracks to Mag-lev. With Trans-rapid desperate to find a country for its technology, there are even deals to be had.
 

jopsuk

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Would maglev make any sense for high loading, high frequency stopping services? Ill suited for the 21st century as the system is, the ability to run the express trains along commuter lines gives a lot of operational flexibility- something Japan did sacrfice with the Shiskansen. It should be noted that Spain, which has long been wide guage, has built its High Speed lines as Standard to allow for international services- and is now preparing to convert its older network over.

But essentially: could the London Undergound system be workable as maglev?
 

bluemeansgo

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I think Japan intentionally separated commuter from intercity. Shinkansen could then be built to a higher standard along its own guideway. Partly for safety and partly for efficiency. They do have a few commuter Shinkansens, but they are on dedicated ROWs. Japan has plenty of rail infrastructure for commuters, much like London. It's not much different than HSR1. HSR1 doesn't act as a commuter train. You have to remember, the more stops, the less competitive with air-line travel it is. I don't think Japan missed an opportunity by making Shinkansen only run on Shinkansen tracks at all. It's also of note that Japan's commuter rail runs narrow gauge... so Shinkansen on commuter rail tracks would be limited by the speed of the narrower gauge tracks. Incidentally there are some DUAL-gauge sections of track. The 53km Seikan tunnel
250px-Seikantunnel_-_Tsugaru_street_detail.PNG
which the new Fastech 360s will run on to Hokkaido will be dual gauge, which will allow Shinkansen and narrow gauge trains to run on the same tracks. The overall specs are of course built to Shinkansen specs, but both types of trains will be able to travel it.

UK doesn't have to match EU standard for rail like Spain. There is and will only ever be ONE link to Europe... the Chunnel. I don't see a compelling reason why a through fare from Manchester to Paris is necessary. Yes, it would be nice to provide a one-seat ride, but let's be honest, most of the traffic will always be from London. If you had a Mag-lev from Manchester to London at the speeds they're proposing, one transfer is a minor inconvenience for the benefits reaped in inter-city travel benefits within Britain.

As for astronomical amounts... if you're talking about Britain... I don't know if I agree (if you're talking about Japan's planned Mag-lev), I apologize in advance for this diatribe:

To upgrade Britain's current rail system to 20th century HSR would cost astronomical amounts... Most of the cost in these systems is the guideway and the tunnelling under urban centres and procuring a right of way. Given the speed advantages of Mag-lev, I think it's more of a visionary idea. Remember, Mag-lev is A LOT cheaper to run than HSR and costs far less to maintain and keep operational than HSR. Combine that with increased capacity with half as many trains and the ability to cover all of Britain's main cities (read: One line instead of two needed) and I think you can make a strong argument that Mag-lev, in the medium to long-term and if nothing else, over the life of the system, is the cheaper more efficient choice. Remember, Mag-lev was ditched for Munich because the advantage over current HSR compared to capital costs and life of the current system didn't make it worthwhile. Meanwhile countries like China which are just DEVELOPING high speed rail, and UK which is catching UP with High Speed Rail (having just finished its very first (HSR1) are PERFECT candidates to LEAP-frog the existing infrastructure and plan for tomorrow. This would require vision. This would require less conservative thinking. England is more or less flat. It wouldn't have NEAR the challenges Japan has when it comes to rail.

Urban Lag-lev in London:
I don't see the advantages of converting the London Underground to Mag-lev... though it could possibly be done. I think you'll find Mag-lev works in a commuter sense as a replacement for Commuter trains, and not for subways. Cheaper to run, quieter (good for above ground implementations), faster.

Many of London's commuter trains run into tube tunnels. Mag-lev as a commuter train along areas where there is a largely uninterrupted ROW would work, but it would have to be either tunnelled or elevated. That's why Mag-lev probably would be a non-starter for a developed city like London.

When given the chance to create something new, like Docklands Light Railway, it may work, but then that was essentially new infrastructure and above ground.
 

vc-10

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Visionary? Sorry, that went out the window with privatization, with short term franchises. And with the Ruth Kelly as our Minister of Transport, the money is all being spent on Crossrail. The problem is that we've not improved our mainlines properly since the Victorian times when they were all built... and while there are new trains (Pendos, Voyagers, 170s, Electrostars, Desiros etc) they don't (with the exception of the Pendos and Voyagers, which simply came up to the standard of the HSTs) have any real increase in speed over what was there before.
I'd love to have a new Mag-Lev system, but the Japanese system (definitely the one with the most promise, as it's superconducting) is years away from proper operation, and if we're going to invest in a Mag-Lev system, then we should invest in a top-notch one, not the German one which is lacking in comparison. But what do we do in the meantime? Also, it's not just rail that's suffered from underinvestment. One only has to compare Heathrow and one of the big German airports, Munich or Frankfurt. While T5 may be great, the majority of passengers don't fly through T5. Gatwick too needs a new runway, there is easily enough demand for another 3 runways in the south east, one at Heathrow, one at Gatwick and one at Stanstead, and new terminals at all these airports, with a major refurbishment of existing ones. Manchester and Birmingham airports are growing well too, and will need expansion. The problem is that the government has no money, and every branch of public service also needing more investment (NHS, schools, Police, Forces.....) transport is kind of low on the list.
 

bluemeansgo

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I know... it's ridiculous. How many people do you know that take the train from Edinburgh to London? Flights are just too cheap. However, prices are going up for planes... Oil isn't going to become MORE available. Airports aren't going to get CHEAPER to fly into and out of. RyanAir and EasyJet can only go SO far in cutting corners.

Planning for tomorrow is expensive. Not doing so, even more so.
 

jopsuk

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Looks like the "Arrow line" end car won out then. Also- a car with only 18 seats? 1.3m seat pitch? Nice...

(before anyone wonders- yes, that adds up to less than 8m long. But then there's the thickness of the seat to take into account, and it's a long-nosed end car)
 

bluemeansgo

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not sure if that's definitive. After all, both "nose" sections are long and reduce tunnel boom.

Though, it would "seem" that the "dolphin" nose is being highlighted.
 

tinyanmcw

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The Fastech 360 is the new train which is going to enter service on the JR East (Japan) in 2011.

If you liked the 37s for their noses, then check out this one
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/FASTECH_360-S.JPG
http://withrailsforever.chitosedori.com/image/kabegami/fastech360s aro 800.jpg

They are fitted with air flaps to assist with braking in an emergency
http://blog.sanriotown.com/yingdong:hellokitty.com/files/2007/07/07073105_fastech360_nekomimi_01.jpg
http://www.shivaranjan.com/shivaupload/bullet/Fastech_360S_t.jpg

And knowing the Japanese Moe cult, companies have produced models
http://lottie.up.seesaa.net/image/06C29Fastech360.jpg
and costumes
http://image.www.rakuten.co.jp/miacos/img10543027031.jpeg
of the "Nekomimi Shinkansen" (cat-eared Shinkansen)

this train is not going to enter service in 2011

JRE will design another train which is called E5 series
Because this train was just a sample
see

2.jpg
[/QUOTE]
 
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