FGW delay: "Never apologise, never explain"

[tsr]

I've noticed a recent increase in the number of announcements by LU drivers to the extent that seemingly every signal delay of more than 30 seconds requires an explanation/apology. I've noticed this particularly on the H&C/Circle at Edgware Road and Baker Street. Is this being copied by some TOC staff?

I believe (though am not 100% sure) that LU drivers must make an announcement within 20 seconds of an unscheduled stop

The following is what I have read elsewhere - lost the link, though. It also stands up to various experiences on my regular journeys, but I haven't yet asked any driving-related staff if it's correct...

An announcement should be made after 30 seconds, then every 90 seconds thereafter if in a tunnel and an estimate is not provided for when the train will move, up to about 6 minutes after the first announcement, when the frequency will drop off a bit, to stop bombardment of the passengers! For operational reasons - or to avoid saying nothing of relevance - some drivers will choose to reduce the announcements. If the train is not in the tunnel, I have been told there is no hard and fast rule, but that regular announcements should be made.

I would be very grateful if someone could confirm/clarify/correct.

As for waiting at Baker Street and Edgware Road - obviously, owing to the complicated junction layouts (Praed St and Baker St Junctions - map), you can get held at red signals round here quite a lot, so you will find brief automatic and manual announcements to explain. I have no doubt it would be the same on other lines, if they used the same infrastructure.

 

[martybabes]

I think in the post above saying that the fire was caused by a steam engine would at the time have been conjecture and could turn out to be slanderous.

Ha ha ha - I think you can safely defame a steam engine!

 

[sheff1]

I would question any research which says that passengers don't want to know this much about what's going on - NRE are actually starting to display this level of information on their website, as are TOC/NR/NRE and various travel news Twitter accounts.

Unfortunately, the poster who referred to the research has not yet been back to provide a link/source so we do not know how or when it was conducted.

 

[A-driver]

Unfortunately, the poster who referred to the research has not yet been back to provide a link/source so we do not know how or when it was conducted.

To be honest I got bored of the thread-it got far too silly with no one actually listening to the answers staff were giving and just reading through recent posts its still like that.

I can't be bothered responding to threads which turn as silly as this one and many others have anymore-I have better things to do.

But as for that research, I don't know specifics but I know the industry have looked into this kind if thing. As I keep saying, they do know what they are doing and what their priorities are.

Plus if you read my posts properly then you will see that my comments were taken too literally, but I couldn't be bothered to explain it all over again as the thread had just descended into silliness.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

It's the F in FGW that is the problem - just like it is with FCC.

 

[edwin_m]

Ha ha ha - I think you can safely defame a steam engine!

You probably can (though the Rev Awdry might choose to disagree). But the operator of the steam engine probably wouldn't be too happy if the fire turned out not to be their fault and they lost business as a result of comments being made.

 

[Flamingo]

It's the F in FGW that is the problem - just like it is with FCC.

Do you think they would both be any different with Virgin/Stagecoach or DB running them?

 

[NSEFAN]

Do you think they would both be any different with Virgin/Stagecoach or DB running them?

The public perception would indeed be different. Afterall, Mr Branson and his Virgin brand are the best things since sliced bread. If he ran the GWML, he'd be having the drivers steering shiny new Pendolinos, not these evil, smelly HSTs with rude guards forced upon the saintly passengers who so generously pay your wages!

 

[Flamingo]

I don't know if Virgin really have that positive an image, or indeed if people in FGW land are even aware of FCC. I've never had anybody ask or comment about FCF, and the vast majority of people who mention Virgin are saying how much better we are!

 

[jon0844]

At first, SRB wouldn't be able to have any new trains on the GW route - but a relivery, new uniforms and heavy branding would likely spruce things up for the average passenger that will be wowed and impressed.

Virgin would probably get staff to give more information to customers, and I'd also imagine they'd be told HOW to give information - empathising with the passengers and of course using wording that makes out Virgin to be the victims of problems outside of their control.

In effect, all staff would be retrained to work a more public relations role.

And when the new trains did arrive, of course they'd be the trains that Virgin built and introduced! And, technically speaking, there would be nothing incorrect in that statement.

Also, even if the franchise said they must, say, install Wi-Fi on every train in the fleet - Virgin would proudly announce that it is now introducing Wi-Fi for customers, yet another improvement for the 'long-suffering passengers' etc.

 

[D1009]

I agree with Flamingo on this. Having travelled on Virgin a few times lately, I don't think their customer service is any better than on the FGW high speed routes which I use regularly. Retraining may be required to reduce the customer service to Virgin's standards.

 

[jon0844]

I think where Virgin won before (as I believe from what has been said here, the policy has now changed) is that if you wrote in to complain, compliment or just ask something random like 'what time is it?' then you'd be given vouchers as standard. Clearly they didn't even read all letters when they responded by apologising that you had a wonderful experience and intend to travel again and recommend Virgin to all your friends, and giving you rail vouchers!

Same policy as Virgin Atlantic, where even the most simple enquiries or comments would get you 20,000 Virgin 'air miles'.

I am sure those who moan loudest were doing quite well when this policy was in place, and probably went away thinking how good Virgin was - just like Tesco doing much the same.

Now, I can say that FGW did give vouchers (not rail vouchers, but actual vouchers for a first class return journey anywhere on their network) to people too, but probably not as frequently.

 

[455driver]

Do you think they would both be any different with Virgin/Stagecoach or DB running them?

SRB and Virmin wouldnt be interested in running FGW in its present form.
If the "peasant" parts were hived off to leave the flashy HS bit on its own then he would be interested in that bit but only because shiny new trains are in the offing so he could take all the praise for them. Just like he has done with the bendy dildos on the WCML.

 

[Mainliner]

I've noticed a recent increase in the number of announcements by LU drivers to the extent that seemingly every signal delay of more than 30 seconds requires an explanation/apology. I've noticed this particularly on the H&C/Circle at Edgware Road and Baker Street. Is this being copied by some TOC staff?

I travel on EC twice a week, and even minor delays (not of 30 seconds obviously, but of a few minutes upwards) are invariably explained and apologised for several times during the journey.

For longer delays, I have never found EC to be anything other than exemplary with regard to providing explanations and updates.

ETA: it was also nice, on a Tuesday morning service last week, after having left NCL 12 minutes late (with a full explanation and apology) to arrive in KGX 2 minutes early

 

[jon0844]

I think Virgin would run the Intercity service under the Virgin brand and create a different brand for the others on the GWML route.

I am not sure how they could do this, and how far they could go to try and give the impression they're not connected - but I am pretty sure that if Virgin wanted that franchise, they'd be giving that very careful consideration.

What about if they go for the ECML deal (which they will) and find they also get the inner-surburban stoppers to Moorgate as part of the deal? That's assuming the plan is still to do this. They can do up the existing fleet, await IEP and maybe offer 390s or similar, but ultimately they'll also have to run a heavily congested commuter service right into the heard of the City of London, using trains from the mid/late 1970s!

 

[455driver]

I agree. There's nothing worse than not knowing how long you will be delayed or what the cause of the delay is.

Imagine how the driver and on board staff feel!

Oh hang on a minute nobody gives a to$$ about us do they, we are just there to be abused because we cannot answer every question from every passenger asking the same question with pinpoint/to the second accuracy because no fu##er in "control" is bothering to tell us what is going on either! :roll:

 

[jon0844]

I personally wouldn't be upset by any member of staff saying they weren't aware of the problem yet and would report back as soon as some information is forthcoming.

Clearly some information will be available at some point, before the train starts moving.

If it's simply waiting at a red signal, that's somewhat different to when the train you're actually on has broken down. If that happens, you do have some information to report - the train has broken down and a fault needs to be investigated.

Bear in mind, at this point, passengers won't know the train has broken down and will assume it's a short wait at a red signal. They won't necessarily know if a train has hit someone and there's now going to be a long delay, with every chance of being detrained later on when another driver takes over etc.

Information doesn't have to be perfectly accurate or with a time that someone will hold staff to, if someone dares to give some sort of estimate based on previous incidents or personal experiences and a bit of guesswork.

Yes, some people will still moan but sod them. The majority will be grateful for information, so there's no reason to say nothing for fear of annoying idiots. And when those idiots try and complain, they'll be ignored and the TOC will be supported by those who can say information was given.

 

[Flamingo]

What about if those "annoying idiots" are journalists with a column in a national paper (and possibly an axe to grind)?

 

[jb]

What about if those "annoying idiots" are journalists with a column in a national paper (and possibly an axe to grind)?

Then you're on a hiding to nothing anyway.

 

[jon0844]

What about if those "annoying idiots" are journalists with a column in a national paper (and possibly an axe to grind)?

If the general public generally get used to getting information on a regular basis, they'll be the ones commenting on such articles with comments to defend the TOC and point out that it was probably an extremely rare occurrence, untrue, exaggerated, or simply a 'non story' as so many commenters like to write (even when it IS a story and took a long time to research and write, but the reader simply didn't care about!).

Swings and roundabouts, but I am sure if someone wrote a big rant about Virgin, the majority of readers would actually defend Virgin!

To be honest, the story would have been fine if the author had pointed out that it wasn't a regular issue (I bet he travels most days with nothing out of the ordinary happening at all) - but an issue nonetheless for people on that individual train. It would have still been a story, but obviously these days every story has to be a BIG story.

 

[SimonS]

jb wasn't trying to say 9.9 out of 10 all the time.
He was trying to say from one persons perspective. Obviously, one individual person is not going to be affected by all of the incidents on a route. So their "personal" rating should be higher than the actual overall figures for that TOC (unless they are VERY unlucky).

The PF figures are an accumulation of personal perspectives. If overall satisfaction was 44% then individual people rate higher and lower.

I doubt any individuals are affected by all the incidents on a route.