First Aberdeen

[Deltic1961]

Story in Today's EE

Bosses at Aberdeen’s main bus operator are to be hauled in front of the Government’s transport watchdog over alleged service failings. First Aberdeen will face the Scottish Traffic Commissioner at the Town House on Thursday. The firm’s punctuality and reliability will be questioned. Directors will face the public scrutiny after being summoned by the government organisation.

The Scottish Traffic Commissioner has the power to enforce improvement notices or even cancel an operator’s licence. More usually, bus companies are given financial sanctions which could be thousands of pounds. Managing director Andrew Jarvis, regional managing director David Alexander, and the firm’s operations director David Phillips are among those due to appear.

Mr Jarvis said: “I can confirm First Aberdeen have been requested to attend a public inquiry by the office of the Traffic Commissioner on Thursday. I can also confirm we will be in attendance.”

Independent traffic monitoring has been carried out by Bus Users Scotland, with a representative due to appear at the meeting to give evidence.

It is not known if the Scottish Traffic Commissioner is investigating specific services or the whole fleet.

The meeting, which is open to the public, is at 2pm at the Town House.

A notice on the Scottish Traffic Commissioner’s website says the bus firm is being summoned under the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 and The Transport Act 1985.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Artic 10170 which has been sat at the depot rear in the same spot out of use since late 2017 was moved over to the workshops today.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Story in Today's EE

Bosses at Aberdeen’s main bus operator are to be hauled in front of the Government’s transport watchdog over alleged service failings. First Aberdeen will face the Scottish Traffic Commissioner at the Town House on Thursday. The firm’s punctuality and reliability will be questioned. Directors will face the public scrutiny after being summoned by the government organisation.

The Scottish Traffic Commissioner has the power to enforce improvement notices or even cancel an operator’s licence. More usually, bus companies are given financial sanctions which could be thousands of pounds. Managing director Andrew Jarvis, regional managing director David Alexander, and the firm’s operations director David Phillips are among those due to appear.

Mr Jarvis said: “I can confirm First Aberdeen have been requested to attend a public inquiry by the office of the Traffic Commissioner on Thursday. I can also confirm we will be in attendance.”

Independent traffic monitoring has been carried out by Bus Users Scotland, with a representative due to appear at the meeting to give evidence.

It is not known if the Scottish Traffic Commissioner is investigating specific services or the whole fleet.

The meeting, which is open to the public, is at 2pm at the Town House.

A notice on the Scottish Traffic Commissioner’s website says the bus firm is being summoned under the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 and The Transport Act 1985.

Do you think @Jordan Adam that they need to improve on somethings?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Do you think @Jordan Adam that they need to improve on somethings?

I've known about the hearing for a few weeks and can see why it's happening, the number of service cancellations between July and September/October were appalling. Don't know why you felt the need to mention me.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I've known about the hearing for a few weeks and can see why it's happening, the number of service cancellations between July and September/October were appalling. Don't know why you felt the need to mention me.

Nothing personal, simply because I gather that your from that area and most likely have a better knowledge of what's going on there.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Nothing personal, simply because I gather that your from that area and most likely have a better knowledge of what's going on there.

Fair enough, it just seemed a bit odd. Part of the reason i didn't say anything on it was really purely because anything that has to be said has already been said. Really the hearing should have happened months ago.

 

[Deltic1961]

First Aberdeen fined £50,000 and this has been accepted by management. Ouch!

I suppose it's better than getting their licence revoked though.

 

[Jordan Adam]

First Aberdeen fined £50,000 and this has been accepted by management. Ouch!

I suppose it's better than getting their licence revoked though.

Darn beat me to it! In fairness they probably had seen the fine coming.

 

[overthewater]

Thats cheap.

 

[Deltic1961]

Good for customers going forward as no-one wants a repeat of the previous strikes and staffing issues so the company will have to put a plan in place.

Word on the street is that no-one wants to work for the company, they have an absolutely terrible reputation as an employer. It's going to take time for this to heal by the look of it.

 

[Jordan Adam]

There's been a noticeable improvement in punctuality of late with First, i think they'll recover - but it's taking time, a bit too long. A few weeks ago there was a bus missing all day on the 1A again, also when a driver calls off stick they seem to be struggling to find anyone who wants to do overtime. I don't think First refusing to overhaul their network will help either at a financial perspective. I think looking further in to 2019 and in to 2020 it may be Stagecoach who struggle more. Primarily because they're being hit by 4 major factors, 3 of which don't/won't affect First. 1: Driver shortages at all depots, 2: bus shortage at all depots, 3: issues keeping up with maintenance & 4: Rail enhancements. I won't go in to any more details here though as that would be off topic!

In other news, the second hand coaches from Reading should be arriving fairly soon.

 

[Jordan Adam]

B7RLE 69294 is now at Caledonia getting repainted in to the new livery, it should be due back on the 23rd.

 

[Blackpudding]

Just for reference and as expected Scania 23504 has been re-registered on paper to W6FAL from FJ56PFN.

 

[Blackpudding]

In addition it looks like recently acquired Volvo B9R 20812 has been re-registered on paper to PSU628 from BF63HEV.

Confirmation of both would be appreciated.

 

[Jordan Adam]

In addition it looks like recently acquired Volvo B9R 20812 has been re-registered on paper to PSU628 from BF63HEV.

Confirmation of both would be appreciated.

PSU628 is the plate previous held by 23305 which has been replaced by 20812 so this would add up. I'll have a look round the depot either tomorrow or Thursday and give confirmation (if i can). 69294 should hopefully be back tomorrow afternoon.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

B7RLE 69294 is now at Caledonia getting repainted in to the new livery, it should be due back on the 23rd.

Said bus is currently sitting outside the sheds at Caley looking extremely smart in the new 2 tone green livery for Aberdeen. Also looks like it has some form of route branding albeit not the coloured front as such more like a banner at the top. Looks really good glad they’ve got their own livery rather than having the same as Glasgow’s. Will be interesting to see the artics and E500s in it!

 

[Jordan Adam]

Said bus is currently sitting outside the sheds at Caley looking extremely smart in the new 2 tone green livery for Aberdeen. Also looks like it has some form of route branding albeit not the coloured front as such more like a banner at the top. Looks really good glad they’ve got their own livery rather than having the same as Glasgow’s. Will be interesting to see the artics and E500s in it!

This is really promising to hear, any idea if the front half of the bus is white or cream? Also regarding the banner that could possibly be branding, what colour is that too?

Many thanks!

 

[Jordan Adam]

In addition it looks like recently acquired Volvo B9R 20812 has been re-registered on paper to PSU628 from BF63HEV.

Confirmation of both would be appreciated.

It appears that would be correct. Prisma Aberdeen on Flickr has got a photo of both 20812 & 23504 side by side with their new plates.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/39901528633

 

[Jordan Adam]

Photo by James Duncan, posted on the FirstBus Enthusiasts page...

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Photo by James Duncan, posted on the FirstBus Enthusiasts page...

That’s the one! Looks incredibly smart! I must say I think FSE and Aberdeen’s livery far surpasses Glasgow’s unfortunately!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Does look good and clearly the City Council didn't have a power of veto on the colour choice

I take it they haven't done the interior

 

[Jordan Adam]

That’s the one! Looks incredibly smart! I must say I think FSE and Aberdeen’s livery far surpasses Glasgow’s unfortunately!

I think the issue with Glasgow is that the fleet is far too big to do something like this.

Does look good and clearly the City Council didn't have a power of veto on the colour choice

I take it they haven't done the interior

Indeed, i assume management saying the livery would be the same as the Glasgow one was an attempt to put us sneaky lot off the case!

 

[Deltic1961]

Instead of reducing the horrific fares to encourage more bus use they will spend tens of thousands on new paintwork.

Mind boggles.

Visited Dundee last week. Far cheaper fares and a whole batch of brand new double deckers with all mod cons .... and comfy seats.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Instead of reducing the horrific fares to encourage more bus use they will spend tens of thousands on new paintwork.

Mind boggles.

Visited Dundee last week. Far cheaper fares and a whole batch of brand new double deckers with all mod cons .... and comfy seats.

I wouldn't say the fares are that bad. Dundee is a smaller city with a smaller network so of course it's going to be cheaper. With Xplore the cheapest fare is £1.75, with First Aberdeen it's £1.60, with Xplore the most expensive fare is £2.25, with First Aberdeen it's £2.60. Day ticket with XD is £3.70, First Aberdeen it's £4,20. As i say this all goes down to coverage and distance.

Aberdeen are getting new deckers later this year too. The Enviro200s on the 13 are pretty similar to the new Xplore Dundee deckers.

Further to that 69294 was up for repaint regardless, as is quite a large chunk of the fleet. So it's not spending any more money than they otherwise would have done. Finally the new livery will actually save money and time as when a bus gets a panel damaged most of the time that panel will be 1 colour rather than having 4 colours!

Personally i think this is a move in the right direction

 

[Blackpudding]

It appears that would be correct. Prisma Aberdeen on Flickr has got a photo of both 20812 & 23504 side by side with their new plates.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N06/39901528633

Thanks for the confirmation Jordan.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I wouldn't say the fares are that bad. Dundee is a smaller city with a smaller network so of course it's going to be cheaper. With Xplore the cheapest fare is £1.75, with First Aberdeen it's £1.60, with Xplore the most expensive fare is £2.25, with First Aberdeen it's £2.60. Day ticket with XD is £3.70, First Aberdeen it's £4,20. As i say this all goes down to coverage and distance.

Aberdeen are getting new deckers later this year too. The Enviro200s on the 13 are pretty similar to the new Xplore Dundee deckers.

Further to that 69294 was up for repaint regardless, as is quite a large chunk of the fleet. So it's not spending any more money than they otherwise would have done. Finally the new livery will actually save money and time as when a bus gets a panel damaged most of the time that panel will be 1 colour rather than having 4 colours!

Personally i think this is a move in the right direction

Edinburgh is huge yet can operate on £1.70 for all singles, given that most don’t travel just 1 stop its a bargain in edinburgh.

Given that Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow are all major cities they should all have a far simpler fare system.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Edinburgh is huge yet can operate on £1.70 for all singles, given that most don’t travel just 1 stop its a bargain in edinburgh.

Given that Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow are all major cities they should all have a far simpler fare system.

Edinburgh as a whole is more profitable primarily but not only thanks to tourism, if other cities adopted the same price for all singles you'd probably find every operator forced out of business.

Anyway lets not get in to another debate of things Lothian do vs things everyone else does...

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

=Visited Dundee last week. Far cheaper fares and a whole batch of brand new double deckers with all mod cons .... and comfy seats.

[Largely off-topic]
You clearly didn't travel on any of the B7TL Geminis then as they are well past their best, only at a maximum age of 14.5 years old.

Xplore's fares compared to Stagecoach are far more expensive in Dundee. If you take the 73 from Dundee city centre to Glamis Road, it's £1.40 on the but you'd be £2.25 on the 5 or 22.

 

[tbtc]

Edinburgh is huge yet can operate on £1.70 for all singles, given that most don’t travel just 1 stop its a bargain in edinburgh.

Given that Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow are all major cities they should all have a far simpler fare system.

The difference is that (unlike most UK cities) most of Edinburgh's posher parts are the "inner city" suburbs close to the centre, so you can charge a "rich" person £1.70 to go to Morningside/ Murrayfield/ Stockbridge and they'll think that's good value for money, whilst a "poor" person will think £1.70 is value for money going all the way out to Wester Hailes/ Muirhouse/ Niddrie.

That means a flat fare works well because the one sum represents a fair price for what both kinds of passengers will pay.

In other cities, flat fares mean you'd end up charging "poor" passengers the same money to go to Parkhead/ Govan that "rich" passengers were paying to Bearsden/ Newton Mearns (which would be a lot of money for the poorer passengers and a bargain for the richer ones).

First tried "simpler" fares in Leeds but (AFAIK) they haven't tried replicating it elsewhere because it ends up with some huge jumps for just going an extra stop down the road.

I won't comment on the relative affluence of Aberdonian suburbs (I had family in Aberdeenshire, once upon a time) but presumably the idea of charging the same fare from Dyce/ Bridge of Don (as from the suburbs within walking distance of the city centre) might not work?

 

[Jordan Adam]

The difference is that (unlike most UK cities) most of Edinburgh's posher parts are the "inner city" suburbs close to the centre, so you can charge a "rich" person £1.70 to go to Morningside/ Murrayfield/ Stockbridge and they'll think that's good value for money, whilst a "poor" person will think £1.70 is value for money going all the way out to Wester Hailes/ Muirhouse/ Niddrie.

That means a flat fare works well because the one sum represents a fair price for what both kinds of passengers will pay.

In other cities, flat fares mean you'd end up charging "poor" passengers the same money to go to Parkhead/ Govan that "rich" passengers were paying to Bearsden/ Newton Mearns (which would be a lot of money for the poorer passengers and a bargain for the richer ones).

First tried "simpler" fares in Leeds but (AFAIK) they haven't tried replicating it elsewhere because it ends up with some huge jumps for just going an extra stop down the road.

I won't comment on the relative affluence of Aberdonian suburbs (I had family in Aberdeenshire, once upon a time) but presumably the idea of charging the same fare from Dyce/ Bridge of Don (as from the suburbs within walking distance of the city centre) might not work?

Aberdeen is quite varied when it comes to affluence, Danestone for example is mostly middle class and somewhat affluent while Tillydrone which is just over the other side of the River Don is quite poor (i believe the most deprived area in Aberdeen). You then get areas like Garthdee and Northfield where one house can be middle class and quite well off, while their next door neighbour struggles to make ends meet.

As you say the reason the 1 price single fare works in Edinburgh is because the inner areas of the city are more affluent, in a place like Aberdeen it simply doesn't work. If you wanted a system like that to work here you'd have to set the single fare to well over £2, it just simply doesn't work.

The only thing i would say is that the £1.60 fare should perhaps be extended to include up to 3 stages.