First class travel for wheelchair users?

[GodAtum]

This has blown up on Twitter today https://twitter.com/adamhillscomedy/status/1436304683581194245

I don't think any TOC offers wheelchair spaces in 1st class? Maybe on the GWR IETs?

 

[Mojo]

Voyagers and Pendolinos have a space for wheelchairs and their user in First Class, as do / did East Coast IEPs, HSTs and Mk4s.

 

[RPI]

5 car GWR IET'S only have a wheelchair space in 1st class and not at all in standard

 

[Spartacus]

I think the default wheelchair space in a TPE Mk5 is in 1st Class.

 

[185143]

5 car GWR IET'S only have a wheelchair space in 1st class and not at all in standard

Same on TPE. I suspect Hull Trains too.

Fairly sure Voyagers have wheelchair spaces in 1st as well.

I think the default wheelchair space in a TPE Mk5 is in 1st Class.

It is on all the Nova fleet.

 

[hwl]

This has blown up on Twitter today https://twitter.com/adamhillscomedy/status/1436304683581194245

I don't think any TOC offers wheelchair spaces in 1st class? Maybe on the GWR IETs?

A former Southern employee wanting to pay for Southern First Class?!?

 

[185143]

A former Southern employee wanting to pay for Southern First Class?!?

Not just me that thought that then!

 

[hwl]

Not just me that thought that then!

It won't just be us...

 

[Ianno87]

I'm a bit lost why Southern First Class would even remotely be described as a "Treat".

If the user were missing out on first class service (e.g. refreshments etc) I'd see their point, but that doesn't apply to Southern services. You'd just be paying more for use of a different wheelchair space if there were one in first class....? What constitutes a first class wheelchair space?

 

[Master29]

What's his point? He knows it's pointless on Southern Rail and as for describing it as a treat. A bit of look at me with this post.

 

[mrcheek]

What's his point? He knows it's pointless on Southern Rail and as for describing it as a treat. A bit of look at me with this post.

I suspect his point is merely to try and be famous on Twitter for a few hours.

 

[Alex365Dash]

A former Southern employee wanting to pay for Southern First Class?!?

Hey, the power outlet might come in useful...

That is, until Southern refit their trains with power outlets in Standard anyway.

 

[Ianigsy]

In Southern’s case, it’s probably a case of “well, nobody’s ever complained before”.

Under normal circumstances Southern’s first class customer base is going to be heavily skewed towards high end commuting and the number of wheelchair users in that group is likely to be very small. Paying extra for the privilege of sitting behind a door may well also be an unjustifiable luxury.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm a bit lost why Southern First Class would even remotely be described as a "Treat".

If the user were missing out on first class service (e.g. refreshments etc) I'd see their point, but that doesn't apply to Southern services. You'd just be paying more for use of a different wheelchair space if there were one in first class....? What constitutes a first class wheelchair space?

I guess they’re making it on a point of principle than anything else. Also not that pleasant being next to the toilet I guess? Also the thought they might be missing out on 1st class quality because they are forced to but, as we know, it’s not the same in other operators.

I did find it odd they worked for Southern and mentioned it was “a treat” because anyone knows it’s just a headrest.

 

[Fuzzytop]

similarly there are no accessible spaces in First Class on the new Norwich-London FLIRTs. I am surprised that hasn’t been the subject of similar complaints.

 

[Darandio]

Had a feeling some of the replies would accuse the complainant of being an attenion seeker. Disappointing.

They are unhappy that the only option they have is to be stuffed in second class next to a bog. In 2021 it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect any customer to be able to access any available class of accomodation.

 

[Ianno87]

similarly there are no accessible spaces in First Class on the new Norwich-London FLIRTs. I am surprised that hasn’t been the subject of similar complaints.

The FLIRTS do get major, major brownie parts for level boarding. And standard class is itself pretty high quality anyway.

Had a feeling some of the replies would accuse the complainant of being an attenion seeker. Disappointing.

They are unhappy that the only option they have is to be stuffed in second class next to a bog. In 2021 it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect any customer to be able to access any available class of accomodation.

That is a reasonable point. With train design, we can do better than stick-them-next-to-the-bog-because-that's-convenient.

 

[JonathanH]

That is a reasonable point. With train design, we can do better than stick-them-next-to-the-bog-because-that's-convenient.

The wheelchair spaces still need to be able to access the universal toilet however. It seems that two bays of seats should be removed from the adjacent saloon. There are units which do this in a better manner - eg longer distance stock where the wheelchair space is in the adjacent saloon but it is never done well in 1/3-2/3 door stock. Coming up with a design that allows standard and first class passengers in a 377 to access the universal toilet seems somewhat impossible.

 

[Ianno87]

The wheelchair spaces still need to be able to access the universal toilet however. It seems that two bays of seats should be removed from the adjacent saloon. There are units which do this in a better manner - eg longer distance stock where the wheelchair space is in the adjacent saloon but it is never done well in 1/3-2/3 door stock.

Class 185s do it well - the toilet and wheelchair spaces are separated by the vestibule.

 

[185143]

The wheelchair spaces still need to be able to access the universal toilet however. It seems that two bays of seats should be removed from the adjacent saloon. There are units which do this in a better manner - eg longer distance stock where the wheelchair space is in the adjacent saloon but it is never done well in 1/3-2/3 door stock.

I think 387s have it quite well? Enter and turn left for the carriage and the wheelchair space, the Khazi is to the right.

 

[JonathanH]

Class 185s do it well - the toilet and wheelchair spaces are separated by the vestibule.

At the expense of the universal toilet being nowhere near the standard class accommodation and the need for people to pass through first class to get to one of the toilets.

I think 387s have it quite well? Enter and turn left for the carriage and the wheelchair space, the Khazi is to the right.

Yes, that is a better arrangement.

 

[GALLANTON]

I'm a bit lost why Southern First Class would even remotely be described as a "Treat".

If the user were missing out on first class service (e.g. refreshments etc) I'd see their point, but that doesn't apply to Southern services. You'd just be paying more for use of a different wheelchair space if there were one in first class....? What constitutes a first class wheelchair space?

The guard hands you an antimacassar to put on your wheelchair.

 

[the sniper]

Had a feeling some of the replies would accuse the complainant of being an attenion seeker. Disappointing.

They are unhappy that the only option they have is to be stuffed in second class next to a bog. In 2021 it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect any customer to be able to access any available class of accomodation.

I didn't think that, until someone said above the person worked for Southern previously? In which case they'd know that a wheelchair user being allowed in first class on their units is just being ripped off for the dubious pleasure. Personally, I wouldn't pay to put my own seat in the yobbo magnet box, the only bit somewhat worth paying for is the seat... Now, if they have nothing to do with the railway, I can accept that they may well just be naïve and believe they're missing out on some experience or service.

Alternatively they're just arguing out of principle, but I'd argue that there are more pressing issues to highlight/fix. This seems like the wheelchair rail users equivalent of 'first world problems'...

 

[Master29]

Had a feeling some of the replies would accuse the complainant of being an attenion seeker. Disappointing.

They are unhappy that the only option they have is to be stuffed in second class next to a bog. In 2021 it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect any customer to be able to access any available class of accomod

Not really. He knew about this situation but still got his 15 minutes for a story as pointless as Southern Rails daft first class offering.

 

[Bayum]

Not really. He knew about this situation but still got his 15 minutes for a story as pointless as Southern Rails daft first class offering.

Not at all. They quite rightly pointed out that they deserved to be able to sit in first away from the toilet, bike spaces and other parcels that build up around the area. Not a comfortable travelling experience.

 

[Bungle73]

Not at all. They quite rightly pointed out that they deserved to be able to sit in first away from the toilet, bike spaces and other parcels that build up around the area. Not a comfortable travelling experience.

You mean so that they unable to use it if they need to?

 

[hwl]

As some people seem to be unfamiliar with "first class" on southern...

It consists of 12 seats (2+2 format) between the cab and the nearest set of doors (not my photo):

Interior: Southern Railway Class 377 (First) by The-Transport-Guild on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

With no UAT in that vehicle.

If the wheel chair space isn't near the UAT you then lose a huge number of seats to create the wide aisle.

The DfT plan for the SE 375 pre covid was to axe first class. A solution to this complain will be similar (or Southern putting a yellow strip above the current wheelchair space)

 

[Bayum]

You mean so that they unable to use it if they need to?

PPP. P*ss poor planning leads to issues like this. Most other operators seem able to successfully accommodate wheelchair users in such a way that they are able to sit within the passenger saloon and access the toilet.

 

[Bungle73]

PPP. P*ss poor planning leads to issues like this. Most other operators seem able to successfully accommodate wheelchair users in such a way that they are able to sit within the passenger saloon and access the toilet.

It is within the passenger saloon........

 

[hwl]

PPP. P*ss poor planning leads to issues like this. Most other operators seem able to successfully accommodate wheelchair users in such a way that they are able to sit within the passenger saloon and access the toilet.

It is in the passenger saloon.
These are 30:70 door locations and 20m vehicles so there isn't much flexibility.
And lose how many seats? Many of 377s have 3+2 seating the other side of the vestibule