First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

New registrations appearing on VOSA for a few services:

• PM0000001/308 Registered
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Toryglen, Asda to Toryglen, Asda via Castlemilk, Tormusk Road
  Service number: 74
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020
• PM0000001/18 Registered (Short notice)
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Glasgow, Osborne Street to Carmunnock, Hillcrest via Castlemilk
  Service number: 31 (31A)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020

• PM0000001/35 Cancelled
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Newton Mearns & Douglas Street to Charing Cross via Waterford Road
  Service number: X78
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020
• PM0000001/640 Cancelled
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: West Regent Street, Glasgow to Robroyston, Briarcroft Road via M80
  Service number: X2
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020
• PM0000006/435 Cancelled
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hamilton, Hillhouse to Buchanan Bus Station, Glasgow via M74, M8
  Service number: X1
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020
• PM0000001/461 Cancelled
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Laurieston, Caledonia Road to East Kilbride Whitemoss Avenue or Bus Station via Cathkin
  Service number: 316
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020
• PM0000001/457 Cancelled
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Govanhill to Newton Mearns via Clarkston Toll
  Service number: 312
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020
• PM0000001/311 Cancelled
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Craigend, Mossvale Road to Parkhead, Springfield Road via Todd Street
  Service number: 32
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 30 Aug 2020

 

[overthewater]

So the X78 is indeed going, I can see SPT contract coming for missing part of 31.

 

[lastbus]

So the X78 is indeed going, I can see SPT contract coming for missing part of 31.

Doubt it since the 31 SPT run is only doing carmunnock to city centre according to timetable.

 

[route101]

The joint ticketing between First and McGill's on the 9/38 corridor has ended so the McGill's driver is right to refuse travel to someone who doesn't have a valid ticket for that service.

I know but a it's good to be nice .

 

[route101]

Doubt it since the 31 SPT run is only doing carmunnock to city centre according to timetable.

Might see something. Either re route of 205 or M1. But link needs to have city via carmunnock to ek. A fair few have complained. Rightly so as some people have no alternative

.

 

[jcf5561]

I know but a it's good to be nice .

And risk the driver losing his job for letting someone on without a valid ticket?

 

[PaulMc7]

Interesting that the 208 didn't have a registration go through with these ones. Could just be delayed. As far as the 31 goes I do think something needs to take its place.

The thing I always found weird about the 31 is the route between Gorbals and Mount Florida. Feel like it would have faired so much better if it had the same route as the 5 considering it would have ran where the most passengers are. Always found that when I used it off peak it was busier in East Kilbride around Stewartfield and Kirtonholme than it was from Osborne St to Mount Florida. Could also have maybe picked up more of the college students at Battlefield Road too granted we are still a little bit away from colleges returning to normality

 

[ScotRail158725]

The thing I always found weird about the 31 is the route between Gorbals and Mount Florida. Feel like it would have faired so much better if it had the same route as the 5 considering it would have ran where the most passengers are.

its the only route to go down cathcart road though, put it down with the 5 you then end up with the 4/A, 5 and 6 down one road with nothing down the other

 

[PaulMc7]

its the only route to go down cathcart road though, put it down with the 5 you then end up with the 4/A, 5 and 6 down one road with nothing down the other

If you need to go to Cathcart Road there's always the 7/7A that cut across it plus with Crosshill train station being there the passenger base for the bus is far smaller anyway plus as I say outside of peaks the 31 was always quiet from my use of it through there

 

[awsnews]

Interesting that the 208 didn't have a registration go through with these ones. Could just be delayed. As far as the 31 goes I do think something needs to take its place.

There doesn't appear to have been any registration changes for the 208 during the service reductions at all.

 

[ScotRail158725]

If you need to go to Cathcart Road there's always the 7/7A that cut across it plus with Crosshill train station being there the passenger base for the bus is far smaller anyway plus as I say outside of peaks the 31 was always quiet from my use of it through there

theres must still a big enough demand for it though, aswell as that people with mobility issues or the elderly could find the distance to the 7/A hard. removing the 31 from there and onto a road that has 3 other very frequent services is just a stupid idea

 

[156478]

I know but a it's good to be nice .

And risk the driver losing his job for letting someone on without a valid ticket?

Before the pandemic and when it all dies down, McGills will probably resume their roving staff doing revenue checks.

Remember when the drivers were refused a pay rise? McGills citing that there was inevitable fraud with people who were clearly adults buying kids tickets on the app.

McGill's threatened with job losses over ticket fraud on buses

A ROW has broken out after staff working for one of Glasgow's bus companies were told they would face job losses if fare fraudsters could not be…

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk

People find a weakness and then go for it, that is how fraud works. Let one customer away with something for a goodwill gesture then word spreads and then you'll have loads of people chancing their arms with First tickets.

 

[PaulMc7]

theres must still a big enough demand for it though, aswell as that people with mobility issues or the elderly could find the distance to the 7/A hard. removing the 31 from there and onto a road that has 3 other very frequent services is just a stupid idea

If First cared that much about the elderly or those with mobility issues they'd not be removing the service at all tbh

 

[lastbus]

If First cared that much about the elderly or those with mobility issues they'd not be removing the service at all tbh

So first have to run a service at a loss?

 

[PaulMc7]

So first have to run a service at a loss?

Where did I say that? I don't think First should have to run loss makers at all but leaving areas completely bus free when the services that they have cut have had sweet fa changed about them for a long time is pretty poor

 

[lastbus]

Where did I say that? I don't think First should have to run loss makers at all but leaving areas completely bus free when the services that they have cut have had sweet fa changed about them for a long time is pretty poor

You said if they cared about the elderly they wouldn’t remove the service. The fact is the service is being removed as it doesn’t cover costs.

 

[PaulMc7]

You said if they cared about the elderly they wouldn’t remove the service. The fact is the service is being removed as it doesn’t cover costs.

And replacing it with nothing which is where my point about not caring about the elderly comes in. If it had been done with consultation then fair enough but First weren't even decent enough to do that either. For a company that operate in the public they treat the public patheticly

 

[overthewater]

On top of that the service has been loss maker for donkey years now, as much as we want we cant run a bus service for a few people, SPT could easily provide a cheap option with My Bus rural

 

[PaulMc7]

On top of that the service has been loss maker for donkey years now, as much as we want we cant run a bus service for a few people, SPT could easily provide a cheap option with My Bus rural

That's where First lack big-time for me. It's been a loss maker for a long time but they've done nothing to change that. If something doesn't work you change it. It's becoming a "get what you deserve" situation with them for a lot of people

 

[overthewater]

That's where First lack big-time for me. It's been a loss maker for a long time but they've done nothing to change that. If something doesn't work you change it. It's becoming a "get what you deserve" situation with them for a lot of people

The route was a controlled route linked to Scotrail franchise, that meant for far too long it operate as was in 2003 etc. It managed to finally get it out of the hands of this but the damage was done.
Big Question now is what will cover Stewartfield Cres, Maybe divert 395? Where did these people really want to go? Kingsgate Retail park? Hamilton?

 

[adrock1976]

Before the pandemic and when it all dies down, McGills will probably resume their roving staff doing revenue checks.

Remember when the drivers were refused a pay rise? McGills citing that there was inevitable fraud with people who were clearly adults buying kids tickets on the app.

McGill's threatened with job losses over ticket fraud on buses

A ROW has broken out after staff working for one of Glasgow's bus companies were told they would face job losses if fare fraudsters could not be…

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk

People find a weakness and then go for it, that is how fraud works. Let one customer away with something for a goodwill gesture then word spreads and then you'll have loads of people chancing their arms with First tickets.

In London, there is no problem which operator runs a route as it is all under the distinctive umbrella of Transport for London, which has a flat fare regardless if it is one stop or ten or twenty stops that the passenger is travelling.

Perhaps now is the time for SPT to radically shake up the bus network by consulting with local residents, and for all bus services within the SPT area to have a flat fare?

 

[PaulMc7]

The route was a controlled route linked to Scotrail franchise, that meant for far too long it operate as was in 2003 etc. It managed to finally get it out of the hands of this but the damage was done.
Big Question now is what will cover Stewartfield Cres, Maybe divert 395? Where did these people really want to go? Kingsgate Retail park? Hamilton?

This is why I think to limit the damage from the current situation a ton of consultation needs to be done from all operators and politicians. You'll probably find out answers on where people want to go pretty quickly if you ask them. If Philipshill was used to link the 31 to the 6 for the city centre link the cut would probably have gone down so much better plus then there's a link for Castlemilk/Carmunnock passengers to get into East Kilbride too. I do think Stewartfield/Kirktonholme does need something though from First

 

[PaulMc7]

In London, there is no problem which operator runs a route as it is all under the distinctive umbrella of Transport for London, which has a flat fare regardless if it is one stop or ten or twenty stops that the passenger is travelling.

Perhaps now is the time for SPT to radically shake up the bus network by consulting with local residents, and for all bus services within the SPT area to have a flat fare?

I think a lot of people would be all for that tbh. The problem I've always found with SPT is that they run a lot of fresh air services and never change them. I think if fares were a bit cheaper it would encourage families especially out of cars or off of trains and onto buses. Out of habit some wouldn't change but everything needs a refresh so if it was done correctly I think it would be a positive

 

[jcf5561]

In London, there is no problem which operator runs a route as it is all under the distinctive umbrella of Transport for London, which has a flat fare regardless if it is one stop or ten or twenty stops that the passenger is travelling.

Perhaps now is the time for SPT to radically shake up the bus network by consulting with local residents, and for all bus services within the SPT area to have a flat fare?

A flat fare for buses in the SPT area wouldn't be viable due to the distances involved. I very much doubt Stagecoach would be willing to let someone travel from Ayr to Greenock on the 585 for a £2.00 flat single for example.

 

[PaulMc7]

A flat fare for buses in the SPT area wouldn't be viable due to the distances involved. I very much doubt Stagecoach would be willing to let someone travel from Ayr to Greenock on the 585 for a £2.00 flat single for example.

I think having flat fare stages varying by distance would make most sense tbh because then it would avoid instances like that.

 

[Stan Drews]

In London, there is no problem which operator runs a route as it is all under the distinctive umbrella of Transport for London, which has a flat fare regardless if it is one stop or ten or twenty stops that the passenger is travelling.

Perhaps now is the time for SPT to radically shake up the bus network by consulting with local residents, and for all bus services within the SPT area to have a flat fare?

A laudable aspiration, but unless you know of a public body with very deep pockets, that is never going to happen in a Glasgow, let alone across the vast swathes of the former Strathclyde Region.

 

[tbtc]

Since there's lot of discussion of Dumbarton, what was it like before Kelvin Scottish took over various bits of Midland and Central Scottish?

I think it was Central (rather than Midland - although presumably Midland had Milngavie before Kelvin closed it?), but either way it must have been quite a far flung operation

My first trip to the town was sampling the delights of Boghead a few times in the '90s (when Kelvin had given way to Kelvin Central etc)

 

[156478]

In London, there is no problem which operator runs a route as it is all under the distinctive umbrella of Transport for London, which has a flat fare regardless if it is one stop or ten or twenty stops that the passenger is travelling.

Perhaps now is the time for SPT to radically shake up the bus network by consulting with local residents, and for all bus services within the SPT area to have a flat fare?

What works in one place will not work in another.

TFL nearly collapsed into a black hole due to the pandemic- if it wasnt for the government bail out it they would have had to shut the system down and it was already circling the drain before hand.

It was also in severe financial restraints as the mayor introduced hopper fares and fares freezes a few years ago to canvass votes. They then came along with the great idea of shutting off busy lanes on main roads in London and making them Cycle Highways to the detriment to bus travel speeds. Then giving children free travel was just the topping on the cake to their financial woes.

The result is TFL who were already up the proverbial creek without a paddle before the pandemic nearly didnt even have a boat to be without a paddle during the pandemic. They have shut down tube ticket offices and making remorseless cuts wherever they can.

There's a reason the fare is £1.50, because you would only get the bus to go short distances because of the pre-pandemic congestion or where you wanted to go didnt have something that ran on metal wheels.

SPT can certainly consult residents. But doing anything worthwhile with the views of customers is another story. Their regulatory powers are close to non existant. They are a reactive organisation and not a proactive organisation.

I don't see Stagecoach wanting to charge the same fare for someone travelling from the top end of Ardrossan to the town centre paying the same as someone going from Dumfries to Glasgow.
Or McGills charging one flat fare to go from Linwood to the Phoenix on the 7 that is the same as from Linwood to Glasgow on the X7.
First charging someone the same fare to go from Helensburgh to Glasgow on the One the same fare as someone going from Central Station to Watt Brothers.

 

[awsnews]

Since there's lot of discussion of Dumbarton, what was it like before Kelvin Scottish took over various bits of Midland and Central Scottish?

I think it was Central (rather than Midland - although presumably Midland had Milngavie before Kelvin closed it?), but either way it must have been quite a far flung operation

My first trip to the town was sampling the delights of Boghead a few times in the '90s (when Kelvin had given way to Kelvin Central etc)

It was Central, from Gavinburn depot at Old Kilpatrick. Looking at the timetable for 1980 the Dumbarton 'network' consisted of 13 services, a couple of which were works services to Sthathleven Estate. At that time they did get to Luss from Ballochand going further west they got to Helensburgh from Dumbarton but no further as the original Garelochhead Coach Services still ran the Helensburgh Town services and around to Coulport. There were two routes to Glasgow from Balloch, the 132 & 133.
As ana side from Clydebank there was even anhourly service across to Erskine in addition to the Clydebank local services.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

I think it was Central (rather than Midland - although presumably Midland had Milngavie before Kelvin closed it?), but either way it must have been quite a far flung operation

Yes the Dumbarton area was Central up until 1985 (based at Old Kilpatrick) then it was inherited by Kelvin.

If I recall correctly Kelvin closed 3 depots. Baillieston in 1985 (although could've been Eastern), Kilsyth in 87 and Milngavie in 89. The early pressures from deregulation undoubtedly forced them into making these decisions.