First Greater Glasgow

[Zakforbes4]

Thing they should do with the X1/X1A is they should extend either the 255/263/267 out to High Earnock to replace the bit of the X1/X1A missing meaning there is still a link to Glasgow

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Thing they should do with the X1/X1A is they should extend either the 255/263/267 out to High Earnock to replace the bit of the X1/X1A missing meaning there is still a link to Glasgow

They would probably end up in the same situation as when the 2 went out to Airdrie. There was no demand for it and unfortunately you’re going to piss off the few people who get it but it’s not economical to run. I’m sure they’d have come up with an alternative like that had their been the numbers from the High Earnock section.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Thing they should do with the X1/X1A is they should extend either the 255/263/267 out to High Earnock to replace the bit of the X1/X1A missing meaning there is still a link to Glasgow

I don't think there would be much point. Most passengers are likely getting a day ticket so catching a local bus then connecting wouldn't be too much bother, plus the routes are fairly frequent anyway.

 

[Arriva Fan]

So what happens to the Gold Branded FirstXPress B9TLs?

I'd send them to Scotstoun and upgrade X4 & X8. Make a proper effort with those Express Services.

 

[ScotRail158725]

So what happens to the Gold Branded FirstXPress B9TLs?

I'd send them to Scotstoun and upgrade X4 & X8. Make a proper effort with those Express Services.

They’re now just debranded

 

[kez19]

Maybe asking a stupid question and possibly in wrong section, I bought now 3 network day m tickets to use in Glasgow, I bought them under the impression I could use them on certain days but now I can’t use them, I even bought a new ticket after midnight thinking it would cover me today, I have emailed First but I found the whole setup confusing! (activated 2 tickets before midnight was nowhere near bus in hotel), just going to ask for paper tickets today (question is only query not complaint plus this was first time using their app for Glasgow).

 

[PaulMc7]

I'd like the idea of them trying to improve the X8 because it at least has Silverburn as something a bit interesting on the route. Other problem though is Mosspark train station is strangely at the far end of Pollok so the X8 goes pretty near it and it's such a quick journey into Glasgow on that line so I'd say it's more attractive to use.

As for the X4, you'd run the risk of branding buses for it only to get rid of them. Jordanhill will never be good bus territory because of the area being affluent and near a train station. The people of Knightswood also got pretty fed up with First when the 4/4A got cut back to Broomhill so the chances of bringing any back to the X4 are pretty slim. It's pretty telling that the 16 isn't exactly that busy and the 94 is SPT tendered. The 2 schools in Jordanhill won't hold the demand together for long once funding goes so I can see the X4 frequency being dropped to every 30 mins if off peak demand precovid was anything to go by.

 

[lastbus]

Maybe asking a stupid question and possibly in wrong section, I bought now 3 network day m tickets to use in Glasgow, I bought them under the impression I could use them on certain days but now I can’t use them, I even bought a new ticket after midnight thinking it would cover me today, I have emailed First but I found the whole setup confusing! (activated 2 tickets before midnight was nowhere near bus in hotel), just going to ask for paper tickets today (question is only query not complaint plus this was first time using their app for Glasgow).

You should only activate 1 ticket at a time and on the day you are using the ticket.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I'd like the idea of them trying to improve the X8 because it at least has Silverburn as something a bit interesting on the route. Other problem though is Mosspark train station is strangely at the far end of Pollok so the X8 goes pretty near it and it's such a quick journey into Glasgow on that line so I'd say it's more attractive to use.

The train takes about 10 minutes from Central to Mosspark, the X8 takes about 20-25 depending where exactly in Pollok you're going. However with that you need to consider the time it takes to get to your nearest station, then once at Central how long it takes you to get to your final destination, because of this the X8 in many cases will be faster. Even then someone is going to take the X8 over the train if it stops at the end of their street and takes them closer to their destination even if it's a few minutes slower than walking and getting the train. Journey time is somewhat irrelevant here as once you take in all the factors it's very "six of one, half a dozen of the other".

 

[kez19]

You should only activate 1 ticket at a time and on the day you are using the ticket.

I understand that, my 3rd ticket is fine that’s now activated but the 2 I bought yesterday are rendered useless now

I just read on activation it’s valid to 1am next day, so for plan’s tomorrow I’ll have to get another ticket in morning before leaving than buying after midnight

I am familiar with bus apps as I use Xplore Dundee and the Go North East ones, with the Dundee app you can buy daytickets before and activate on specific day ie on day or day after (that was the impression I had in terms with First but wrong and I admit my mistake here)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The train takes about 10 minutes from Central to Mosspark, the X8 takes about 20-25 depending where exactly in Pollok you're going. However with that you need to consider the time it takes to get to your nearest station, then once at Central how long it takes you to get to your final destination, because of this the X8 in many cases will be faster. Even then someone is going to take the X8 over the train if it stops at the end of their street and takes them closer to their destination even if it's a few minutes slower than walking and getting the train. Journey time is somewhat irrelevant here as once you take in all the factors it's very "six of one, half a dozen of the other".

These are always the issues when you look at bus vs. rail services. If you have a conveniently located rail station (perhaps in the centre of a town or city) and your local station is also easy to get to, then rail tends to win even if the cost is higher as overall speed is quicker and general b*ggeration factor is low.

However, should either or both rail stations not be conveniently located and the alternative bus runs close to your house (so bus is more convenient and the speed advantage of the train is reduced or eliminated), then the bus has a fair chance. That's just the way it is, as you say.

 

[PaulMc7]

The train takes about 10 minutes from Central to Mosspark, the X8 takes about 20-25 depending where exactly in Pollok you're going. However with that you need to consider the time it takes to get to your nearest station, then once at Central how long it takes you to get to your final destination, because of this the X8 in many cases will be faster. Even then someone is going to take the X8 over the train if it stops at the end of their street and takes them closer to their destination even if it's a few minutes slower than walking and getting the train. Journey time is somewhat irrelevant here as once you take in all the factors it's very "six of one, half a dozen of the other".

That could also be said for the X8 now though with where it stops in the city centre. If you're at Argyle St for example you'd need to walk by the train station just to get up to the X8 plus then there's the M77 and all it takes is one bit of traffic or a bad run of traffic lights getting onto the motorway and the train is 100% quicker. It's handy for Silverburn and the first part of Pollok but once you get deeper into it I'd say the train becomes more favourable and going by the times I've used the X8 off peak I think it shows how key the train is. At peaks the X8 was always really busy when I've used it though.

Just looked at the X8 times and even from the beginning of Linthaugh Road at Crookston Castle to Silverburn bus station is 16 mins so the train is already quicker before the X8 is even on the motorway

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I’ve always found the X8 to be a fairly busy service given that it’s the quickest route to Silverburn from the City Centre. I’m not sure what it’s like now but peak services would fill a decker which at the time were mainly the B7TL ex-London 03 plates. I still see it passing on the motorway and it’s full heading towards Pollock. It’s mainly run by B9TLs now but on occasion it would get a B7RLE which would be full and people would have to get the next bus. It would be nice if they upgraded the route and provided the E400MMCs with express branding like the other routes.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Is that right, must be a recent thing.

[/QUOTE]
I thought only govan circle 90s did this

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Any of the evening SPT 89/90s I've seen have said Govan on the front but during the day I've seen the 90 have a range of places on the route displayed. Seen a few Parkheads displayed at both terminus then I've seen some just say Springburn and then on top of that I've seen ones just say the opposite terminus

Spt night time ones show Springburn or parkhead until waitrose on byres rd where it changes to govan

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

I’ve always found the X8 to be a fairly busy service given that it’s the quickest route to Silverburn from the City Centre. I’m not sure what it’s like now but peak services would fill a decker which at the time were mainly the B7TL ex-London 03 plates. I still see it passing on the motorway and it’s full heading towards Pollock. It’s mainly run by B9TLs now but on occasion it would get a B7RLE which would be full and people would have to get the next bus. It would be nice if they upgraded the route and provided the E400MMCs with express branding like the other routes.

The x8 benefits from using the bus station and the cash convertors bus stop meaning it shares a stop with lots of services coming from the east emd amd west end

 

[route101]

I use the X8 now and then. I think it gets good custom as it has an established passenger base. People do use it to commute to Silverburn. Funny Glasgow does not take advatage of the motorway network to offer fast services.

 

[PaulMc7]

I use the X8 now and then. I think it gets good custom as it has an established passenger base. People do use it to commute to Silverburn. Funny Glasgow does not take advatage of the motorway network to offer fast services.

Think the only problem is congestion to be fair. Motorway traffic seems to become a problem from about 3pm onwards sometimes and reliability in Glasgow is a bad enough issue before that even kicks in

 

[Arriva Fan]

What First really need to do is a SimpliCity exercise, Properly!!, this time.

X Prefixes should ONLY be used for Express Variants of the same Route Number for example. I'd have all the 1 Services change screen to ' Glasgow 1' at Clydebank, and have 1C & 1D run from their respective termini with the same.

The network is a little messy, and SimpliCity only made it more so to be honest. Renumbering the 62 as the 2 to clear up Scotstoun - Partick - Glasgow as the 1, 2, 3 worked well. You then have the Glasgow- Parkhead - Shettleston being the 2, 60, 61 though. Split the 2 and have the 60, 61, 62 and SimpliCity starts to work.

What needs to happen is what Southern Vectis did to their network, admittedly on a larger scale but the current numbering system is messy, and that's being polite.

 

[ScotRail158725]

The network is a little messy, and SimpliCity only made it more so to be honest. Renumbering the 62 as the 2 to clear up Scotstoun - Partick - Glasgow as the 1, 2, 3 worked well. You then have the Glasgow- Parkhead - Shettleston being the 2, 60, 61 though. Split the 2 and have the 60, 61, 62 and SimpliCity starts to work.

What needs to happen is what Southern Vectis did to their network, admittedly on a larger scale but the current numbering system is messy, and that's being polite.

numbering isnt messy at all. splitting the 2 also makes cross city east-west journeys longer and more inconvenient

 

[PaulMc7]

Wouldn't say the numbering is messy but the way services were split or not split was inconsistent. For example, the 56 became the 10 just to fit in with the 9/9A yet it didn't need to change as it fitted in with the 57 anyway and it was something people were familiar with.

As for the 1s and 38s they do need some sorting out to cut the number of route variations down.

35/36/37 could replace the 38B/C/E to simplify that down a bit.

With the 1s the 1C and 1D should have been X services and then you could make a bigger deal out of the rest being West Dunbartonshire/Argyll and Bute connections. Could have the Mountblow bus being an X2 and the Drumchapel one being an X6 so you could then market the X2/X4/X6 as a trio of expresses

 

[Zakforbes4]

What First really need to do is a SimpliCity exercise, Properly!!, this time.

X Prefixes should ONLY be used for Express Variants of the same Route Number for example. I'd have all the 1 Services change screen to ' Glasgow 1' at Clydebank, and have 1C & 1D run from their respective termini with the same.

The network is a little messy, and SimpliCity only made it more so to be honest. Renumbering the 62 as the 2 to clear up Scotstoun - Partick - Glasgow as the 1, 2, 3 worked well. You then have the Glasgow- Parkhead - Shettleston being the 2, 60, 61 though. Split the 2 and have the 60, 61, 62 and SimpliCity starts to work.

What needs to happen is what Southern Vectis did to their network, admittedly on a larger scale but the current numbering system is messy, and that's being polite.

I was looking through the SimpliCity network and one of the 3** routes and the X77 was part of it even though they run about 2 times a day

Wouldn't say the numbering is messy but the way services were split or not split was inconsistent. For example, the 56 became the 10 just to fit in with the 9/9A yet it didn't need to change as it fitted in with the 57 anyway and it was something people were familiar with.

As for the 1s and 38s they do need some sorting out to cut the number of route variations down.

35/36/37 could replace the 38B/C/E to simplify that down a bit.

With the 1s the 1C and 1D should have been X services and then you could make a bigger deal out of the rest being West Dunbartonshire/Argyll and Bute connections. Could have the Mountblow bus being an X2 and the Drumchapel one being an X6 so you could then market the X2/X4/X6 as a trio of expresses

yes but people aren't getting confused, if your local bus is the 38E it will be annoying if its suddenly a 36

 

[route101]

So what happens to the Gold Branded FirstXPress B9TLs?

I'd send them to Scotstoun and upgrade X4 & X8. Make a proper effort with those Express Services.

They are on 267, 263 and sometimes the 21.

So what happens to the Gold Branded FirstXPress B9TLs?

I'd send them to Scotstoun and upgrade X4 & X8. Make a proper effort with those Express Services.

They are on 267, 263 and sometimes the 21.

Wouldn't say the numbering is messy but the way services were split or not split was inconsistent. For example, the 56 became the 10 just to fit in with the 9/9A yet it didn't need to change as it fitted in with the 57 anyway and it was something people were familiar with.

As for the 1s and 38s they do need some sorting out to cut the number of route variations down.

35/36/37 could replace the 38B/C/E to simplify that down a bit.

With the 1s the 1C and 1D should have been X services and then you could make a bigger deal out of the rest being West Dunbartonshire/Argyll and Bute connections. Could have the Mountblow bus being an X2 and the Drumchapel one being an X6 so you could then market the X2/X4/X6 as a trio of expresses

There used to be a 36, the remenents exist in the form od early morning 38Cs

 

[PaulMc7]

I was looking through the SimpliCity network and one of the 3** routes and the X77 was part of it even though they run about 2 times a day


yes but people aren't getting confused, if your local bus is the 38E it will be annoying if its suddenly a 36

You'd be amazed at how often confusion can happen especially if people aren't regular bus users. It's an easy network to know if you use it a lot but if you don't it's really not simple. Been asked plenty of times which 38 etc goes where

 

[tbtc]

I think that one common route number would simplify things as far as the Clydebank to Glasgow bit of the 1s (including the eastbound X4s) or the southbound 38 corridor (so that services heading the same direction on the far side of the city centre show one number) - maybe you could do the same with the eastbound 9/9a/10 on Paisley Road West too (but that would mean having just one terminus for those services)... the 88/89 from Cadder into Glasgow too (so just one number for passengers in Springburn heading into town)... all Easterhouse bound buses on the 60/60a to show just one number...

Obviously you'd need multiple service numbers in the opposite directions, but think it'd make things a bit better to provide more of a "unified" service into the city, rather than confusing passengers with several route numbers that all go the same way (e.g. if I'm stood in Partick I don't care whether the bus into the city centre has come from Helensburgh/ Balloch/ Drumchapel, if they are all going the same way into town)

Changing the subject a bit - is there any reason for the seemingly slow route the 60/60a takes from Shettleston Road into the city centre (compared to the 2)? I could understand the diversion north via Duke Street to serve The Forge but then, instead of following Duke Street into town like the 41, it goes back south to take Gallowgate - must mean it's guaranteed to get overtaken by a 2 at some stage, surely? That kind of diversion happens on an infrequent service, where you're trying to keep a route viable by ticking lots of boxes, but seems a bit unusual on such a high frequency service IMHO.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Changing the subject a bit - is there any reason for the seemingly slow route the 60/60a takes from Shettleston Road into the city centre (compared to the 2)? I could understand the diversion north via Duke Street to serve The Forge but then, instead of following Duke Street into town like the 41, it goes back south to take Gallowgate

This is the original 62A route from the late 80s which I think competed with a Kelvin Scottish/Kelvin Central route (may have been one of the 5 variants). Then the 62A was replaced by the 40 in the late 90s which instead continued on Duke Street through Drygate then turned left onto High Street then Glasgow Cross, Trongate etc but this only lasted around 3 or 4 years and it went back to Bellgrove, Gallowgate and the Barras. I think it's essentially seen as 3 services for eastend folk, Easterhouse and Barlanark to Shettleston and Parkhead, Shettleston and Parkhead to Dennistoun and Dennistoun to Glasgow Cross and City Centre.

As a child I remember the 60 and 61 being the main services, and very busy in those days, on Maryhill Road and the 60 on Duke Street and 61 on Gallowgate. I was rather pleased to see the 60 number reintroduced in the Simplicity brand although the differences to pre 1980s is that it doesn't go via Garscube Road and from the City Centre straight out to Duke Street via George Street. The 61 outhwith changes to City Centre traffic management has been the same from Tollcross to Maryhill for 60 years or longer.

On the subject of the 38 numbering system, the way I look at it is B to Barlanark, C to Chryston and E to Edinburgh Road with the main 38 to Garthamlock as it's done for many years so it's probably easier to understand than you think.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Completely different topic from above but still within FIG.

The E500s which were delivered to Glasgow in 2009 were rumoured to be originally for the 62 which needed deckers however due to problems with Parkhead not having AD Blue tanks they were moved to Larkfield which did. Given what was to come and the merging of Parkhead with Caledonia could they not have swapped a route/routes for the 62 to operate from Larkfield and Scotstoun?

Also it’s confusing how the 62 went from almost have such big buses on it to having all singles ordered just 3 years later. It’s confusing. The 2 has been mainly deckers during COVID but I think they need to stay they’re so much better for capacity than the E300s.

 

[Zakforbes4]

Completely different topic from above but still within FIG.

The E500s which were delivered to Glasgow in 2009 were rumoured to be originally for the 62 which needed deckers however due to problems with Parkhead not having AD Blue tanks they were moved to Larkfield which did. Given what was to come and the merging of Parkhead with Caledonia could they not have swapped a route/routes for the 62 to operate from Larkfield and Scotstoun?

Also it’s confusing how the 62 went from almost have such big buses on it to having all singles ordered just 3 years later. It’s confusing. The 2 has been mainly deckers during COVID but I think they need to stay they’re so much better for capacity than the E300s.

Why did we even move the E500s? (to Aberdeen)

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Why did we even move the E500s? (to Aberdeen)

Wasn’t it because the B10LAs/B7LAs were ageing and they needed a replacement? Plus I’m sure the E500s were gas guzzlers down in Glasgow and weren’t used on Sundays for that reason. Something to do with the A/C which has been since fixed I believe in Aberdeen.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Wasn’t it because the B10LAs/B7LAs were ageing and they needed a replacement? Plus I’m sure the E500s were gas guzzlers down in Glasgow and weren’t used on Sundays for that reason. Something to do with the A/C which has been since fixed I believe in Aberdeen.

Indeed plus network changes in Glasgow meant the capacity was no longer justified, The Artics they replaced were not PSVAR compliant so had to be off the road by the end of 2015. One of which was W2FAL (Prototype for the Wright Eclipse/Solar body), despite being registered in 2000 it was built in 1998 so by the end of 2015 it was already 17 years old, approaching 18. The A/C has now been deactivated, all 25 E500s were retro-fitted with hopper windows and the usual "box heater" system that you find on ADLs in 2017. The MPG is more comparable to that of a B9TL now.