First Greater Glasgow

[JumpinTrainz]

It’s a shame the 90 lost the Streetlites which were new for the route back in 2014. It seems to get a mix of just about anything now and a lot more deckers have appeared on it even prior to the pandemic.

 

[PaulMc7]

I think at times the 90 does need the odd double decker here or there. Wonder how it'll be going forward but before Covid there was times with single deckers where it was completely full with people standing. Springburn and Parkhead in particular can be pretty busy

 

[Jordan Adam]

I think at times the 90 does need the odd double decker here or there. Wonder how it'll be going forward but before Covid there was times with single deckers where it was completely full with people standing. Springburn and Parkhead in particular can be pretty busy

Given the frequency it would make more sense to increase it to every 20 minutes. That way you ease capacity issues while the higher frequency could stimulate further growth.

 

[adrock1976]

Given the frequency it would make more sense to increase it to every 20 minutes. That way you ease capacity issues while the higher frequency could stimulate further growth.

When I used to reside in Springburn, I remember when Possilpark garage operated that route with the red Volvo double deckers where the driver would board or leave the cab on the right hand side, the frequency was every 20 minutes and was retained when it was transferred to Parkhead back in 2000, operated by the Volvo Citybus double deckers. At some point, the frequency was dropped to every 30 minutes and around 2002, Parkhead had introduced the Optare Solo midibuses (not a minibus, but not a single decker either - it was somewhere in between).

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Volvo double deckers where the driver would board or leave the cab on the right hand side

That would be the Volvo Ailsa with it's front engine and off-side cab door although they only started running out of Possil in the late 90s when a number of them were transferred from Larkfield.

The 89/90 was still every 20 minutes when the Solos were brought in then cut to 30 around 05/06 with SV types or Volvo B10m/Alexander PS to most people.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

That would be the Volvo Ailsa with it's front engine and off-side cab door although they only started running out of Possil in the late 90s when a number of them were transferred from Larkfield.

The 89/90 was still every 20 minutes when the Solos were brought in then cut to 30 around 05/06 with SV types or Volvo B10m/Alexander PS to most people.

I recall the Solos being so underpowered and appearing on the 34. The 89/90 used to always have the PS buses as did the old 1 services (204, 206, 215, 216). Those buses were fantastic

 

[route101]

I think at times the 90 does need the odd double decker here or there. Wonder how it'll be going forward but before Covid there was times with single deckers where it was completely full with people standing. Springburn and Parkhead in particular can be pretty busy

There used to be a gemini that started from Braehead in Afternoon on the 90.

It’s a shame the 90 lost the Streetlites which were new for the route back in 2014. It seems to get a mix of just about anything now and a lot more deckers have appeared on it even prior to the pandemic.

The wee streetlites are back at Caley, i got one on 6 one morning!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

There used to be a gemini that started from Braehead in Afternoon on the 90.



The wee streetlites are back at Caley, i got one on 6 one morning!

The 03 plate B7TLs have been known to make an appearance on the 90 also.

 

[lastbus]

The wee streetlites are back at Caley, i got one on 6 one morning!

They were only on loan they are now back at Overtown.

 

[PaulMc7]

Definitely seems a lot busier on the buses I've seen today when I've been out. Also seems like normality has resumed with the 1s too as some of them were 10/20mins late again

 

[Zakforbes4]

Yeah i read that. I have noticed a lot of part route on the 90. Partick to Springburn.

They put Springburn on the destination screen at Partick so people wont get on to Braehead thinking it just goes under the tunnel. They change it at the top of Hillhead

 

[PaulMc7]

Spotted the following on Facebook from councillor Josh Wilson regarding the X1 a few days ago:

"I have just received notification from First Bus that they will not reinstate the X1. This is despite giving assurances that they would attend a further meeting to discuss the legitimate concerns that our constituents have and what could be done to ensure communities remain connected.

First have handled this whole affair shockingly and an email sent after 5 on a Friday advising elected representatives that they are axing a lifeline service is simply unacceptable.

I, along with my colleagues, will continue to fight this terrible decision."

I do understand why First won't bring it back seeing as the losses mentioned regarding it are 210k a year. However, the way they've handled it doesn't come across particularly great either. First seem to be very sneaky with how they communicate with politicians in order to avoid backlash but it clearly is not working. Councillor Christina Cannon also mentioned in response to one of the posts about the X1 that the X2 cut was communicated to her at 4:45pm on a Friday through email too. Seems to be late Friday afternoons the emails are sent to try and get by the weekend untroubled. Safe to say the residents of Hamilton won't be sending First Christmas cards anytime soon

 

[route101]

The 03 plate B7TLs have been known to make an appearance on the 90 also.

Yes ive seen them too, usually a gemini if its a decker.

They put Springburn on the destination screen at Partick so people wont get on to Braehead thinking it just goes under the tunnel. They change it at the top of Hillhead

Is that right, must be a recent thing.

Definitely seems a lot busier on the buses I've seen today when I've been out. Also seems like normality has resumed with the 1s too as some of them were 10/20mins late again

Yes, roadworks and traffic buses are back to their usual self. Peak loadings still way down. Suppose for me back to using buses at least 3 days a week.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Spotted the following on Facebook from councillor Josh Wilson regarding the X1 a few days ago:

"I have just received notification from First Bus that they will not reinstate the X1. This is despite giving assurances that they would attend a further meeting to discuss the legitimate concerns that our constituents have and what could be done to ensure communities remain connected.

First have handled this whole affair shockingly and an email sent after 5 on a Friday advising elected representatives that they are axing a lifeline service is simply unacceptable.

I, along with my colleagues, will continue to fight this terrible decision."

I do understand why First won't bring it back seeing as the losses mentioned regarding it are 210k a year. However, the way they've handled it doesn't come across particularly great either. First seem to be very sneaky with how they communicate with politicians in order to avoid backlash but it clearly is not working. Councillor Christina Cannon also mentioned in response to one of the posts about the X1 that the X2 cut was communicated to her at 4:45pm on a Friday through email too. Seems to be late Friday afternoons the emails are sent to try and get by the weekend untroubled. Safe to say the residents of Hamilton won't be sending First Christmas cards anytime soon

The X1 isn’t coming back get over it. All this fight for a route people clearly aren’t using otherwise First wouldn’t be getting rid of it. They wanted to pull it before COVID and rebranded buses to give it a chance. It’s obviously not happening. End of

 

[156478]

Spotted the following on Facebook from councillor Josh Wilson regarding the X1 a few days ago:

"I have just received notification from First Bus that they will not reinstate the X1. This is despite giving assurances that they would attend a further meeting to discuss the legitimate concerns that our constituents have and what could be done to ensure communities remain connected.

First have handled this whole affair shockingly and an email sent after 5 on a Friday advising elected representatives that they are axing a lifeline service is simply unacceptable.

I, along with my colleagues, will continue to fight this terrible decision."

I do understand why First won't bring it back seeing as the losses mentioned regarding it are 210k a year. However, the way they've handled it doesn't come across particularly great either. First seem to be very sneaky with how they communicate with politicians in order to avoid backlash but it clearly is not working. Councillor Christina Cannon also mentioned in response to one of the posts about the X1 that the X2 cut was communicated to her at 4:45pm on a Friday through email too. Seems to be late Friday afternoons the emails are sent to try and get by the weekend untroubled. Safe to say the residents of Hamilton won't be sending First Christmas cards anytime soon

"Sneaky"- yes. But they are just playing the polticians at their own PR games.

I dont agree very often with any Councillors at the best of times, but I can agree on one thing, the way First have dealt with the X1 saga has been absolutely terrible.

 

[overthewater]

I disagree, I don't believe First has handled this saga terribly. Its clear as day the Councillors don't have a clue what their are talking about and have spend over 2 months talking with not positive action, with very little money to back up their words. Worse still they claim it was a lifeline service.. we all know that is not true since the trains are still running and of course X74.

 

[Aidan1]

Councillors need to be seen to do something with regards to the X1, so fair play they have had talks with First but everyone knows their minds are made up. Never good to see a route go but in the X1’s case Covid will be the final nail in the coffin. Wonder if a 225 will appear Davington - Hamilton TC?

 

[PaulMc7]

Councillors need to be seen to do something with regards to the X1, so fair play they have had talks with First but everyone knows their minds are made up. Never good to see a route go but in the X1’s case Covid will be the final nail in the coffin. Wonder if a 225 will appear Davington - Hamilton TC?

If SPT step in and fund something I reckon there might be a local service but if there is I doubt it'll be First running it. The problem with the X1 was always the Hamilton to Glasgow end as well so if there isn't anything local then I could see a lot more distrust appearing between people and public transport in Hamilton than there clearly already is

 

[Jordan Adam]

If SPT step in and fund something I reckon there might be a local service but if there is I doubt it'll be First running it. The problem with the X1 was always the Hamilton to Glasgow end as well so if there isn't anything local then I could see a lot more distrust appearing between people and public transport in Hamilton than there clearly already is

I doubt SPT would step in, despite what councillors protest in the log rags the X1 isn't a "vital" service. I don't really think First have been poor with communication here, it's not as if the X1 being "officially" axed is random and out of the blue the service was already at risk pre-covid. It won't have any short term affects on anyone as the X1 isn't currently running so people who would've used it have already found alternatives anyway.

 

[PaulMc7]

I doubt SPT would step in, despite what councillors protest in the log rags the X1 isn't a "vital" service. I don't really think First have been poor with communication here, it's not as if the X1 being "officially" axed is random and out of the blue the service was already at risk pre-covid. It won't have any short term affects on anyone as the X1 isn't currently running so people who would've used it have already found alternatives anyway.

I don't think the X1 is vital either but the way First have handled this from a communication point of view is pretty shocking especially given that another meeting was supposed to happen. It's only really became a saga too because First let that happen. People are clearly siding more with politicians too so First definitely aren't the winners in this given that they could have put this to bed in the first meeting.

The first stage of this saga was about this time last year too. Shows how avoidable a lot of this actually was from First's point of view

 

[sannox]

I recall the Solos being so underpowered and appearing on the 34. The 89/90 used to always have the PS buses as did the old 1 services (204, 206, 215, 216). Those buses were fantastic

89/90 has had everything on it- Ailsas were basic but shifted- often found on the 22/23 and they could move along the 40mph section of Cowglen Road! The Solos were slow- the engines were screaming yet movement didn't match the noise! They did get to the 34, but I often found them packed at peak and the Varios were the same. 34 used to be double deck- only went to single deck to fight First Stop as they used Darts which took a more direct route under a low bridge.

They put Springburn on the destination screen at Partick so people wont get on to Braehead thinking it just goes under the tunnel. They change it at the top of Hillhead

When it was a complete circle, they used to run it with Inner Circle as destination. Not particularly helpful in the days before the internet or much in the way of bus stop publicity. I think latterly the via screen flicked between places.

The SPT services still show Partick in either direction don't they? Or is it Govan?

 

[PaulMc7]

Any of the evening SPT 89/90s I've seen have said Govan on the front but during the day I've seen the 90 have a range of places on the route displayed. Seen a few Parkheads displayed at both terminus then I've seen some just say Springburn and then on top of that I've seen ones just say the opposite terminus

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't think the X1 is vital either but the way First have handled this from a communication point of view is pretty shocking especially given that another meeting was supposed to happen. It's only really became a saga too because First let that happen. People are clearly siding more with politicians too so First definitely aren't the winners in this given that they could have put this to bed in the first meeting.

The first stage of this saga was about this time last year too. Shows how avoidable a lot of this actually was from First's point of view

Of course people are going to side with politicians, a bus service has been dropped. The general public lack the common sense to realise if you don't use it you loose it. I doubt another meeting would've made any difference, it's pretty evident First had already made their mind up. Most users likely already switched to using the walking, cycling or the 226/227 and connecting with the train, even when the X1 was still in operation.

 

[PaulMc7]

Of course people are going to side with politicians, a bus service has been dropped. The general public lack the common sense to realise if you don't use it you loose it. I doubt another meeting would've made any difference, it's pretty evident First had already made their mind up. Most users likely already switched to using the walking, cycling or the 226/227 and connecting with the train, even when the X1 was still in operation.

The general public in this sense are thinking First don't care at all about them and that's what the problem is unfortunately. If the mind was made up too it shouldn't still be a saga a year on either which is entirely on First

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The general public in this sense are thinking First don't care at all about them and that's what the problem is unfortunately. If the mind was made up too it shouldn't still be a saga a year on either which is entirely on First

You're right. They should have axed it, explained why, and left it at that.

 

[PaulMc7]

You're right. They should have axed it, explained why, and left it at that.

Exactly. It should have been gone in October, explained using the figures and then politicians could have looked for an alternative. It's been dragged out more than anything I can remember with First previously

 

[Jordan Adam]

The general public in this sense are thinking First don't care at all about them and that's what the problem is unfortunately. If the mind was made up too it shouldn't still be a saga a year on either which is entirely on First

The key thing you've forgotten is the pandemic. First couldn't have known a year ago that such a thing was going to happen, nor did they or anyone know in March how long the lockdown would last and what it's impact would be long term. By First already making their mind up i'm referring to more recently, not January/February pre-pandemic when First were clearly trying to increase numbers on the X1 and make it sustainable long term.

 

[smtglasgow]

If First were losing that much on the X1 (and I’m sure the figures are accurate), how much are they throwing away running out to Shotts? There’s a JMB bus right in front of every First one, so unless they’re getting a decent number of season tickets (doubtful), it must be haemorrhaging cash. Surely a tactical retreat to Bonkle (or wherever they can turn) would make sense. I’m guessing Hamilton-Newmains does well.

 

[PaulMc7]

The Shotts to Newmains section of the 266 is so weird to me. Used it maybe twice at most and on each occasion I can only remember there being 2 passengers at most other than myself. Motherwell to Wishaw can be incredibly busy though so I wouldn't be surprised if it's enough to prop up the worse off parts of the route

Would be interesting to see figures for a lot of different services just to get an indication of what could be next to go and what services just survive as they are. Even from a political aspect that could maybe help because finding what could work and what won't could be easier. A simple sit down with local councillors, MSPs etc could probably go a long way especially when it comes to trying to get viability into the network when we've got through this pandemic

 

[156478]

If First were losing that much on the X1 (and I’m sure the figures are accurate), how much are they throwing away running out to Shotts? There’s a JMB bus right in front of every First one, so unless they’re getting a decent number of season tickets (doubtful), it must be haemorrhaging cash. Surely a tactical retreat to Bonkle (or wherever they can turn) would make sense. I’m guessing Hamilton-Newmains does well.

Just now there seems to be a bit of co-ordination between the two of them on the current timetables for Shotts but competitive timings from Newmains.

Monday to Friday from Shotts
Early runs JMB are in front and then they get into their respective frequencies.
JMB xx13, xx28, xx43, xx58
First xx20, xx35, xx50, xx05
However when the JMB gets to Newmains the First journeys from West Crindledyke are timed to be there at the exact same time. Both are supposed to be at Newmains at xx40, xx55, xx10, xx25

Monday to Friday from Motherwell
JMB xx26, xx41, xx56, xx11
First xx33, xx48, xx03, xx18 for Shotts and xx25, xx40, xx55 and xx10 for Newmains- its the Newmains runs that are scheduled to run a minute in front of JMB

Saturdays its First every 20 minutes and JMB every half hour.

It also has to be factored in that the First journeys start from Hamilton and its like pulling teeth getting round the one way system in Hamilton and then the faff of getting from there to Motherwell town centre. So getting to Motherwell to be in front of the JMB will be challenging for the Newmains journeys.

I also remember Wishaw used to be really bad for traffic.

At the end of the day the First drivers could have an easier shift if they wanted to hang back ever so slightly and let the JMB drivers get in front to pick up the Concessions. At the end of the day drivers are paid to drive the bus safely and its your licence and livelihood thats on the line and to the vast majority thats more important than breaking a sweat trying to get in front of the green and cream for a few quid that you wont see the benefit of.

I recon considering how long the competition has been going on customers will have their favourites. If they are only travelling with JMB from Shotts to Motherwell they are quids in, but First offer the more comprehensive network and tickets.