First Greater Glasgow

[Jordan Adam]

The issue in Glasgow isn't with branding itself but with the number of vehicles branded. First of late have essentially been branding the equivalent of a route's off peak vehicle requirement. For example if a route requires 20 buses off peak then First have been branding 20 buses. This leaves no room for operational flexibility, particularly when you have duties set up so buses interwork on to different routes in the evening. In my opinion no more than 75% of a route's vehicle requirement should be branded. McGill's have made the same mistake with their Yutongs and as such you often see them off route especially at weekends, but that' a topic for another thread...

 

[Jarcoed]

Branding of routes does not bother me. Only time is when buses are just white with no company branding, you only see that with smaller operators and single deckers. When your standing at the bottom of Union St, the branding works well for the 18 as you can spot it from afar. To me whats important is a reliable service with a decent frequency.


Why do these have London area registrations rather the Scottish S?

I am mixed about route branding - it does make the new livery look more complete and attractive but knowing the company itself it doesn't tend to keep allocated buses on the right route. I do like the yellow on the EV's more than I do on the Enviro400 MMC's.

Also, I have this funny feeling Glasgow buses are starting to become more like London ones

38418 has arrived at caley and is not branded (white front)

 

[JumpinTrainz]

With 34380 being painted into the gold express livery - I’m wondering if the plan is to have the 65 plate E400MMCs replaced by the 18/19 plates and have them cascaded over to Blantyre.

 

[ScotRail158725]

With 34380 being painted into the gold express livery - I’m wondering if the plan is to have the 65 plate E400MMCs replaced by the 18/19 plates and have them cascaded over to Blantyre.

some to Blantyre, some down south

 

[JumpinTrainz]

some to Blantyre, some down south

I imagined in the future that we’d probably see a lot more fleet cascades what with the fleet being of similar ages eventually, however there seem to be quite a lot of buses heading elsewhere and with the LEZ target to be met I’d have thought they’d be wanting to keep all of their Euro 6 stock. There’s still a fair bit of Euro 3 hanging around.

 

[PaulMc7]

I imagined in the future that we’d probably see a lot more fleet cascades what with the fleet being of similar ages eventually, however there seem to be quite a lot of buses heading elsewhere and with the LEZ target to be met I’d have thought they’d be wanting to keep all of their Euro 6 stock. There’s still a fair bit of Euro 3 hanging around.

More cuts will probably come to cover it to be honest and going by off peak usage at times it's potentially warranted. I also think the driver shortage will play it's part in that too. They're definitely hiring new drivers as I've seen plenty of unfamiliar faces recently despite using the same routes a lot but it's how many that leave that's the issue.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

The hoary old chestnut of branding... People DO care about branding which is why you don't have a dealer white vehicle with BUS stamped on the site, much as you don't have a chocolate bar with just CHOCOLATE on plain wrapping nor washing powder or many other things.

Well, yes, I suppose anything but a complete lack of colour and logos is already some sort of branding. That said, setting aside ads and the odd description in tiny, virtually illegible letters, London's buses are kept very simple in terms of their branding. When I say passengers don't really care about branding, I mean things such as inconsistent (or perhaps unnecessary) route branding, new colour schemes rolled out every few months or buses cluttered with symbols advertising ticket types, special offers, free-wifi, the city's sights, destinations served etc.

So yes, without going to extremes, less is indeed more, in my opinion. In fact, I wouldn't mind Strathclyde red making a comeback. It certainly looked great on that celebratory B7TL / Eclipse Gemini back in 2019, but that's probably just my personal preference.

More generally, I think good, consistent branding can attract new customers, but I also have the distinct feeling that most companies (and bus operators are no exception) employ a certain number of people who's very jobs are dependent on constantly updating and changing the branding, either purely for the sake of it, or to keep things "fresh", whether that ends up being a benefit to the customer or not.

Again, to a certain degree, this is simply a matter of opinion. Personally, I think a single colour scheme with some minor adaptations (where relevant) is best. Sorry to bang on about Copenhagen, but I really like how a single colour scheme is used for "regular bus lines", a splash of red is added for "A-lines" (24 hour service and 5-10 minute headways) and blue is used for "S-lines" (express services with fewer stops). Nice and simple.






This, in my view, is confusing to the average customer:

 

[cnjb8]

This, in my view, is confusing to the average customer:


View attachment 110784

That photo is from a photoshoot. I seriously doubt that this ‘scene’ would present itself in real life.
I do notice First don’t put the names of the colours on their branding, so for instance it could be Yellow Line 75 which would be simpler

 

[JumpinTrainz]

That photo is from a photoshoot. I seriously doubt that this ‘scene’ would present itself in real life.
I do notice First don’t put the names of the colours on their branding, so for instance it could be Yellow Line 75 which would be simpler

I believe they did this with the Aberdeen before they started to go with the Sunshine/Thistle line etc.

 

[Volvodart]

Glasgow/Aberdeen have received funding for electric buses:-

https://www.transport.gov.scot/public-transport/buses/scottish-zero-emission-bus-challenge-fund/

First Aberdeen Ltd & First Glasgow No1 Ltd

£18,599,858

74

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Glasgow/Aberdeen have received funding for electric buses:-

https://www.transport.gov.scot/public-transport/buses/scottish-zero-emission-bus-challenge-fund/

Interesting that the Aberdeen ones will be electric rather than hydrogen? I guess it must be as it does mention "associated charging infrastructure" etc.

 

[Volvodart]

The hydrogen buses are substantially more expensive to buy and run than electric buses, and the funding level available for them was the same as for the electric buses which probably made them uneconomic. The Scottish Government previously said funding for hydrogen buses through funds like this was not to be available until the hydrogen was produced in a "green" way, so it may not have been an option.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

More generally, I think good, consistent branding can attract new customers, but I also have the distinct feeling that most companies (and bus operators are no exception) employ a certain number of people who's very jobs are dependent on constantly updating and changing the branding, either purely for the sake of it, or to keep things "fresh", whether that ends up being a benefit to the customer or not.

I don't know if that's the case. Certainly not when you look at Arriva or Stagecoach but also that operators are just not carrying that sort of overhead.

Certainly, there are instances where marketing has realised significant benefits but, of course, these things are seldom done in isolation. Those operators who believe that simply slapping on some branding, and that's enough, have usually been found out. If you look at the marketing mix, the promotion element comes in last after getting the product right!

In that respect, First has some way to go with a lot of rather tired, unrefurbished fleet still to address (though much better than the days of knackered Tridents holding sway and B7Ls polluting the place). FWIW, I'd be more inclined to go with a more nuanced approach as you suggest but I'm not so certain that the average customer is so confused. The flip side is that you can see your yellow fronted 75 more easily than just one of any number of identically liveried vehicles.

The hydrogen buses are substantially more expensive to buy and run than electric buses, and the funding level available for them was the same as for the electric buses which probably made them uneconomic. The Scottish Government previously said funding for hydrogen buses through funds like this was not to be available until the hydrogen was produced in a "green" way, so it may not have been an option.

True enough but having embarked on the hydrogen route (and it clearly being in the thinking), it still seems slightly incongruous.

 

[Jarcoed]

Well, yes, I suppose anything but a complete lack of colour and logos is already some sort of branding. That said, setting aside ads and the odd description in tiny, virtually illegible letters, London's buses are kept very simple in terms of their branding. When I say passengers don't really care about branding, I mean things such as inconsistent (or perhaps unnecessary) route branding, new colour schemes rolled out every few months or buses cluttered with symbols advertising ticket types, special offers, free-wifi, the city's sights, destinations served etc.

So yes, without going to extremes, less is indeed more, in my opinion. In fact, I wouldn't mind Strathclyde red making a comeback. It certainly looked great on that celebratory B7TL / Eclipse Gemini back in 2019, but that's probably just my personal preference.

More generally, I think good, consistent branding can attract new customers, but I also have the distinct feeling that most companies (and bus operators are no exception) employ a certain number of people who's very jobs are dependent on constantly updating and changing the branding, either purely for the sake of it, or to keep things "fresh", whether that ends up being a benefit to the customer or not.

Again, to a certain degree, this is simply a matter of opinion. Personally, I think a single colour scheme with some minor adaptations (where relevant) is best. Sorry to bang on about Copenhagen, but I really like how a single colour scheme is used for "regular bus lines", a splash of red is added for "A-lines" (24 hour service and 5-10 minute headways) and blue is used for "S-lines" (express services with fewer stops). Nice and simple.


View attachment 110785View attachment 110786View attachment 110787



This, in my view, is confusing to the average customer:


View attachment 110784

The 77 livery is my favourite. I think dark blue goes so well with the Enviro400 MMC. We now know both the 75 and 38 are getting new EV's but it's also being rumour that the 61 and 4/4A are getting them too.

Glasgow/Aberdeen have received funding for electric buses:-

https://www.transport.gov.scot/public-transport/buses/scottish-zero-emission-bus-challenge-fund/

In my opinion, I think the 60/60A should receive new buses, it's a key route for Maryhill and Duke Street etc

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The 77 livery is my favourite. I think dark blue goes so well with the Enviro400 MMC. We now know both the 75 and 38 are getting new EV's but it's also being rumour that the 61 and 4/4A are getting them too.


In my opinion, I think the 60/60A should receive new buses, it's a key route for Maryhill and Duke Street etc

The 60/60A and 61 haven’t had new buses ordered since 2005/2006 when the B7RLEs were new to Parkhead. Since then it’s been cast offs which is a shame as they are busy routes. It would definitely be nice to see something new on those routes. I’ve heard whispers the 61 is getting new EVs but nothing on the 60/60A - guess we’ll have to wait and see.

On a separate note it would be nice to see the 2 see some new stock. It was notorious for seeing new buses but has since been landed with the E300s and the oldest ones are coming up for 10 years old this year. I’d like to see a mix of singles and deckers on this route like they plan on doing with the 201. Since Covid - the 2 has seen a mix which makes perfect sense. Hopefully eventually it’ll see electric stock but it may need to have a battery option given the length of the route.

 

[stevenedin]

Have any vehicles left First Glasgow recently other than the ones to Scotland East and the ones loaned to Aberdeen?

 

[Rgy88]

Have any vehicles left First Glasgow recently other than the ones to Scotland East and the ones loaned to Aberdeen?

Noticed a few of the B7RLEs have been withdrawn / disappeared from that bustimes.org vehicle list

 

[ScotRail158725]

Have any vehicles left First Glasgow recently other than the ones to Scotland East and the ones loaned to Aberdeen?

69021/027/034 32550/578

A lot more B7RLEs and B7TLs soon…

 

[stevenedin]

Thanks interesting to see they are being scrapped/withdrawn rather than transferred elsewhere. I guess they may be the worst of the batch.

 

[Jarcoed]

69021/027/034 32550/578

A lot more B7RLEs and B7TLs soon…

I was never a huge fan of the Volvo B7RLE's but I'm going to miss ther B7TL's, they've always been my favourite amongst the fleet along with the Scania L94UB Flolines and Enviro400 EV's

On another note, 38418 is on the 60A today

 

[ScotRail158725]

Thanks interesting to see they are being scrapped/withdrawn rather than transferred elsewhere. I guess they may be the worst of the batch.

the RLEs were meant to be trainers in Glasgow along with 083/084/087/096 but are going elsewhere now. The two B7TLs were VOR and it was more cost effective to get rid of them than repair them

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I was never a huge fan of the Volvo B7RLE's but I'm going to miss ther B7TL's, they've always been my favourite amongst the fleet along with the Scania L94UB Flolines and Enviro400 EV's

On another note, 38418 is on the 60A today

I always liked the B7RLEs I feel like they were the last solid single buses First got and were a massive improvement on the B7Ls which were just awful. Like the B7TLs they were great when new but they were neglected internally with very few ever seeing refurbishment. I hated the fans on the B7TLs which sound like hoovers.

It’ll be nice to see some quieter new stock buzzing around Glasgow.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I’d be crying if I still drove 60/61s there and they eventually will remove the Volvos of course.

Give me a b5tl anyday.

Better than the Dennis stuff also.

The 200/400 MMC vehicles are some of the most irritating vehicles I have ever driven.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I always liked the B7RLEs I feel like they were the last solid single buses First got and were a massive improvement on the B7Ls which were just awful. Like the B7TLs they were great when new but they were neglected internally with very few ever seeing refurbishment. I hated the fans on the B7TLs which sound like hoovers.

It’ll be nice to see some quieter new stock buzzing around Glasgow.

The later Euro4/5 D7E engine B7RLEs (07 plate onwards) were much better and have aged far better imo, although Glasgow doesn't have any. The floor layouts on them were revised offering better legroom and addressing the structural issues the early examples have at the rear, the gearbox is much smoother on them particularly when it comes to the retarder which on the Euro3s especially when new was very violent, while the D7E engine is significantly more powerful. I also find the build quality on the 2007-9 Eclipse Urbans to be far better than that of the 2005-6 examples.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The later Euro4/5 D7E engine B7RLEs (07 plate onwards) were much better and have aged far better imo, although Glasgow doesn't have any. The floor layouts on them were revised offering better legroom and addressing the structural issues the early examples have at the rear, the gearbox is much smoother on them particularly when it comes to the retarder which on the Euro3s especially when new was very violent, while the D7E engine is significantly more powerful. I also find the build quality on the 2007-9 Eclipse Urbans to be far better than that of the 2005-6 examples.

I do recall trying to sit down before the bus moved off on the B7RLEs. The E300s had a similar thing. It would have been nice to see some of the newer examples in Glasgow but we only got up to the 56 example. I’ll be sad to see them go but new, more efficient buses are the forward.

 

[Whiteway215]

69021/027/034 32550/578

A lot more B7RLEs and B7TLs soon…

On a Facebook site it says 69021/27 were going to W Yorkshire as trainers.

 

[ScotRail158725]

On a Facebook site it says 69021/27 were going to W Yorkshire as trainers.

69034 as well.

 

[christopherrfc]

Scotstoun depot to receive the new electric buses which will be single deckers

74 ScotZEB battery-electrics for First Bus all to be single-deck - routeone

All 74 battery-electric buses for First Bus Scotland that will be part-funded by the ScotZEB challenge fund will be single-deck models.

www.route-one.net

74 ScotZEB battery-electrics for First Bus all to be single-deck​

First Bus Scotland has moved quickly to confirm that all 74 of the battery-electric buses that will be part-funded by the first round of the Scottish Zero Emission Bus (ScotZEB) challenge fund are to be single-deck models. The manufacturer has not been confirmed but they will all be in service by spring 2024.
50 of them will go to First Glasgow’s Scotstoun depot and 24 will join the First Aberdeen fleet. The former will take the number of battery-electric buses in operation by the group in Glasgow to 200, while those for Aberdeen will grow to 30% the percentage of its fleet that is zero-emission, the group says.
£18.6m has been secured by First Bus for its Scottish business from the first round of ScotZEB. To that it will add £16.4m for a total investment of £35m.
The 50 battery-electric buses for Scotstoun will complement current work at Caledonia depot in Glasgow that upon completion will see 150 buses there that use the same propulsion technology. When all 200 are delivered across Caledonia and Scotstoun, 40% of the buses operating from the two depots will be zero-emission.
Significant money will be invested in infrastructure at Aberdeen and Scotstoun as part of the ScotZEB work to future-proof both depots, the group adds. In Aberdeen, the battery-electric buses will run alongside Wrightbus StreetDeck Hydroliner hydrogen fuel cell-electric double-deckers.
Says First Bus Scotland Managing Director Duncan Cameron: “We are delighted to have been awarded this funding, and we are proud to be continuing our journey towards achieving a 100% zero-emission fleet by 2035.
“Scotstoun will become the second of our depots in Glasgow to start its journey, while Aberdeen will further enhance its growing number of zero-emission buses. Both depots will be future-proofed for further investment in zero-emission vehicles as a result of the infrastructure work undertaken.”
The first round of ScotZEB will see over £62m go towards the delivery of 276 battery-electric buses across Scotland. A second round of ScotZEB is expected to open in April.

 

[PaulMc7]

Scotstoun depot to receive the new electric buses which will be single deckers

74 ScotZEB battery-electrics for First Bus all to be single-deck - routeone

All 74 battery-electric buses for First Bus Scotland that will be part-funded by the ScotZEB challenge fund will be single-deck models.

www.route-one.net

74 ScotZEB battery-electrics for First Bus all to be single-deck​

By
routeone Team
-
February 28, 2022
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https://www.route-one.net/decarbonisation/74-scotzeb-battery-electrics-for-first-bus-all-to-be-single-deck/
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=74+ScotZEB+battery-electrics+for+First+Bus+all+to+be+single-deck&url=https://www.route-one.net/decarbonisation/74-scotzeb-battery-electrics-for-first-bus-all-to-be-single-deck/&via=@routeoneteam

https://www.linkedin.com/shareArtic...electrics+for+First+Bus+all+to+be+single-deck

First Bus Scotland has moved quickly to confirm that all 74 of the battery-electric buses that will be part-funded by the first round of the Scottish Zero Emission Bus (ScotZEB) challenge fund are to be single-deck models. The manufacturer has not been confirmed but they will all be in service by spring 2024.
50 of them will go to First Glasgow’s Scotstoun depot and 24 will join the First Aberdeen fleet. The former will take the number of battery-electric buses in operation by the group in Glasgow to 200, while those for Aberdeen will grow to 30% the percentage of its fleet that is zero-emission, the group says.
£18.6m has been secured by First Bus for its Scottish business from the first round of ScotZEB. To that it will add £16.4m for a total investment of £35m.
The 50 battery-electric buses for Scotstoun will complement current work at Caledonia depot in Glasgow that upon completion will see 150 buses there that use the same propulsion technology. When all 200 are delivered across Caledonia and Scotstoun, 40% of the buses operating from the two depots will be zero-emission.
Significant money will be invested in infrastructure at Aberdeen and Scotstoun as part of the ScotZEB work to future-proof both depots, the group adds. In Aberdeen, the battery-electric buses will run alongside Wrightbus StreetDeck Hydroliner hydrogen fuel cell-electric double-deckers.
Says First Bus Scotland Managing Director Duncan Cameron: “We are delighted to have been awarded this funding, and we are proud to be continuing our journey towards achieving a 100% zero-emission fleet by 2035.
“Scotstoun will become the second of our depots in Glasgow to start its journey, while Aberdeen will further enhance its growing number of zero-emission buses. Both depots will be future-proofed for further investment in zero-emission vehicles as a result of the infrastructure work undertaken.”
The first round of ScotZEB will see over £62m go towards the delivery of 276 battery-electric buses across Scotland. A second round of ScotZEB is expected to open in April.

To me that translates to either the 2, 3 or 6 benefitting hugely here and the 8, 16 and 90 becoming E300 only unless they get rid of a lot of them to other depots

 

[JumpinTrainz]

To me that translates to either the 2, 3 or 6 benefitting hugely here and the 8, 16 and 90 becoming E300 only unless they get rid of a lot of them to other depots

I’m hopeful the 2 will see these also which is great news for Glasgow and regular user of the 2! It’s nice to see another depot see new stock.