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First Greater Glasgow

Bus Lightyear

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Quite a substantial number of Volvo B7tls/Wright Eclipse Gemini have been withdrawn from Bus Times in the last week and don't appear to have transferred to another First company so I can only assume they've been binned.
 
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ScotRail158725

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Quite a substantial number of Volvo B7tls/Wright Eclipse Gemini have been withdrawn from Bus Times in the last week and don't appear to have transferred to another First company so I can only assume they've been binned.
32585/598-605/611-615/617/626 are the only ones not for the scrapman
 

PaulMc7

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To be honest this is exactly why the driver shortage is helping First in a way. It's been easy to get older buses off of the road with the constant cuts that more than likely will become permanent and more will probably need to happen with how many buses are still missing each day.
 

mb3

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Quite a substantial number of Volvo B7tls/Wright Eclipse Gemini have been withdrawn from Bus Times in the last week and don't appear to have transferred to another First company so I can only assume they've been binned.

The latest batch were withdrawn from end of service on 12/4/22. Those being: 31787, 31788, 31793, 31795, 32300, 32301, 32303, 32304, 32305, 32564 & 32605.
 
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PaulMc7

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As much as there's a mention of a lack of double deckers on the 2 I find it very interesting that on the day they're most likely to be quiet, from the 14 buses I could see on the app for the 2 in both directions combined, 13 of them at this time are double deckers. To be fair even my work bus yesterday was a double decker for the first time since the timetable change.
 
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Joerf21

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As much as there's a mention of a lack of double deckers on the 2 I find it very interesting that on the day they're most likely to be quiet from the 14 buses I could see on the app for the 2 in both directions combined 13 of them at this time are double deckers. To be fair even my work bus yesterday was a double decker for the first time since the timetable change.
It would be nice to see a green painted decker on the 2
 

Bus Lightyear

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As much as there's a mention of a lack of double deckers on the 2 I find it very interesting that on the day they're most likely to be quiet, from the 14 buses I could see on the app for the 2 in both directions combined, 13 of them at this time are double deckers. To be fair even my work bus yesterday was a double decker for the first time since the timetable change.
And yet I'm seeing Double Deckers more often on the 2 these days.

It would be nice to see a green painted decker on the 2
37751 (the GGPTE liveried Volvo B9tl) is quite regularly on the 2 these days. I don't know how long it will last like this until it's repainted back into First livery.

The latest batch were withdrawn from end of service on 12/4/22. Those being: 31787, 31788, 31793, 31795, 32300, 32301, 32303, 32304, 32305, 32564 & 32605.
So that's First Glasgow now a Plaxton President free zone. The bodywork on these were pretty good.

To be honest this is exactly why the driver shortage is helping First in a way. It's been easy to get older buses off of the road with the constant cuts that more than likely will become permanent and more will probably need to happen with how many buses are still missing each day.
The mass exodus of old Double Deckers has nothing to do with driver shortage. They allowed the new E400EVs to bed in before the time was right to dispose of them.
 
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PaulMc7

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And yet I'm seeing Double Deckers more often on the 2 these days.


37751 (the GGPTE liveried Volvo B9tl) is quite regularly on the 2 these days. I don't know how long it will last like this until it's repainted back into First livery.


So that's First Glasgow now a Plaxton President free zone. The bodywork on these were pretty good.


The mass exodus of old Double Deckers has nothing to do with driver shortage. They allowed the new E400EVs to bed in before the time was right to dispose of them.
I get the 2 on most days to be fair and the number of double deckers had been steadily growing but it's gone up a fair bit more with the new timetable to the most it has had in years.

The driver shortage absolutely helps First with getting rid of old stock as you now need less of it to cover services and being realistic most of these cuts due to driver shortages will be permanent. There isn't the passenger base for most services compared to pre-covid especially during the day in the off peak. A Saturday seems fairly busy on some services but midweek is questionable and even with the decreases on Sundays now for the likes of the 8, 16 and 77 most of them were reasonably quiet from what I seen on Sunday there.

It might pick up a little more if Covid dies down but some passengers are lost permanently due to home working and the fear of sitting next to people as some see everyone as Covid spreaders regardless of the situation. I fear it may get worse too with masks not being mandatory from Monday. There's already enough dirty looks towards others without them even if people are genuinely exempt.

Another issue is that the City Centre is becoming extremely unsafe and unattractive due to the amount of issues and fights caused by youngsters these days. Whether that's a direct result of the free travel passes for under 22s is up for debate but while it's an issue it's not good for First at all.
 

ScotRail158725

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Another issue is that the City Centre is becoming extremely unsafe and unattractive due to the amount of issues and fights caused by youngsters these days. Whether that's a direct result of the free travel passes for under 22s is up for debate but while it's an issue it's not good for First at all.
Its been like that for years and its no worse these days than i was back in the day….
 

PaulMc7

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Its been like that for years and its no worse these days than i was back in the day….
I remember it being bad but nothing like it's been lately. There's police incidents most days at the minute. It's been bad but not like that for a good while and as I say it's important when most of First's services cover the area becoming far less desirable
 

Glasgowbusguy

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I remember it being bad but nothing like it's been lately. There's police incidents most days at the minute. It's been bad but not like that for a good while and as I say it's important when most of First's services cover the area becoming far less desirable
Town has always been bad. It's just now that the issues have sort of moved nearer Central station and away from Sauchiehall Street.
 

PaulMc7

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Town has always been bad it's just now that the issues have sort of moved nearer Central station and away from sauchiehall st
Around the outside of St Enoch's is horrendous just now for trouble too. The only reason I go near is for food normally and because of using the 1s so much at the weekend.

On another note it would be cool to see proper comparisons and timetables from previous years to compare the network from then to now. It was interesting looking up registrations from the past and seeing the different routes like the old 6, 39, 55 etc.
 

Bus Lightyear

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On another note it would be cool to see proper comparisons and timetables from previous years to compare the network from then to now. It was interesting looking up registrations from the past and seeing the different routes like the old 6, 39, 55 etc.
The original 6 just seemed to gradually die over the years. It used to terminate on Alderman Road in Garscadden but on the east side it changed route and termini numerous times. I remember it went as far out as Gartferry possibly on an SPTE tender.

The 39 isn't needed these days as it's covered by the 38, 9 and McGill's 7.

I think the 9A covers part of the 55 and the Cadder end is today's 7-7A.
 
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route101

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Not just a Glasgow problem with the City Centre as I have seen recently.

As for looking back at old routes. The big cutbacks would of been the nightbuses. The 44 used to have a night service to Eaglesham. The non overground routes have thinned out and been chopped up into SPT tenders.
 

Albaman

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On another note it would be cool to see proper comparisons and timetables from previous years to compare the network from then to now. It was interesting looking up registrations from the past and seeing the different routes like the old 6, 39, 55 etc.
Growing up my local bus services were the 6 and 58 and I recall at the corner of Lincoln Avenue and Alderman Road the 6, 9, 10 and 15 were all available , depending on where you wanted to go and could get to the appropriate bus stop in time.

I have a copy of the bus timetable booklet dated June 1967 and it is a fascinating historical document. Whilst it does not give details of timetable frequencies etc, I would recommend the publication " A Handbook of Glasgow Corporation Motorbuses 1924-1971 " by Stuart M. Little. A quick look on Google suggests copies may still be available though I fear not at the original price of 65pence.
 

Tom Gallacher

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Growing up my local bus services were the 6 and 58 and I recall at the corner of Lincoln Avenue and Alderman Road the 6, 9, 10 and 15 were all available , depending on where you wanted to go and could get to the appropriate bus stop in time.

I have a copy of the bus timetable booklet dated June 1967 and it is a fascinating historical document. Whilst it does not give details of timetable frequencies etc, I would recommend the publication " A Handbook of Glasgow Corporation Motorbuses 1924-1971 " by Stuart M. Little. A quick look on Google suggests copies may still be available though I fear not at the original price of 65pence.
I remember buying that book when it first came out, Just wish I knew where it is now as it was a fount of knowledge.
 

PaulMc7

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Growing up my local bus services were the 6 and 58 and I recall at the corner of Lincoln Avenue and Alderman Road the 6, 9, 10 and 15 were all available , depending on where you wanted to go and could get to the appropriate bus stop in time.

I have a copy of the bus timetable booklet dated June 1967 and it is a fascinating historical document. Whilst it does not give details of timetable frequencies etc, I would recommend the publication " A Handbook of Glasgow Corporation Motorbuses 1924-1971 " by Stuart M. Little. A quick look on Google suggests copies may still be available though I fear not at the original price of 65pence.
Thanks for the info. When I was younger it was the 42, 62, 66, 204, 205, 215 and 216 for me and then the 9, 42A and 44 a bit further along. Other than Great Western Retail Park being a bit more accessible and the Knightswood to Glasgow West End link not too much has changed since. It's a shame though as I feel the 44 and even when it changed to the 4 they were much busier than the X4 a lot of the time.

I only ever remember the 6 for going to Cardowan from Garscadden but not actually using it. It's a shame the orbital routes that offered a lot of options are mostly gone but it's the main issue in a city that's heavily focused on City Centre travel by bus and car for anywhere else.

I don't see orbital routes being massively profit making anytime soon so I doubt there will ever be other services like the 8 and 90 especially as they both get loads of reliability issues due to the route lengths and congestion through a lot of the areas they serve.

I even remember with the 8 hearing a driver being asked about why they cut it from Carmyle to just Parkhead and they mentioned just because of reliability and route length but then not long after this was undone when the 15 was cut and the 8 was extended to the Queen Elizabeth hospital.

It would be nice to have loads of options and some places lost options due to Simplicity unfortunately so people will either be heavily reliant on 2 buses to get anywhere or have switched to cars.
 

Bus Lightyear

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Growing up my local bus services were the 6 and 58 and I recall at the corner of Lincoln Avenue and Alderman Road the 6, 9, 10 and 15 were all available , depending on where you wanted to go and could get to the appropriate bus stop in time.

I have a copy of the bus timetable booklet dated June 1967 and it is a fascinating historical document. Whilst it does not give details of timetable frequencies etc, I would recommend the publication " A Handbook of Glasgow Corporation Motorbuses 1924-1971 " by Stuart M. Little. A quick look on Google suggests copies may still be available though I fear not at the original price of 65pence.
By goodness you're showing your age.

I remember the 58 which was similar to the west end of the 6 these days. My memory of the 10 is a bit hazy but it went to Carntyne in the east end and was jointly operated by Knightswood and Gartcraig depots.
 

route101

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Thanks for the info. When I was younger it was the 42, 62, 66, 204, 205, 215 and 216 for me and then the 9, 42A and 44 a bit further along. Other than Great Western Retail Park being a bit more accessible and the Knightswood to Glasgow West End link not too much has changed since. It's a shame though as I feel the 44 and even when it changed to the 4 they were much busier than the X4 a lot of the time.

I only ever remember the 6 for going to Cardowan from Garscadden but not actually using it. It's a shame the orbital routes that offered a lot of options are mostly gone but it's the main issue in a city that's heavily focused on City Centre travel by bus and car for anywhere else.

I don't see orbital routes being massively profit making anytime soon so I doubt there will ever be other services like the 8 and 90 especially as they both get loads of reliability issues due to the route lengths and congestion through a lot of the areas they serve.

I even remember with the 8 hearing a driver being asked about why they cut it from Carmyle to just Parkhead and they mentioned just because of reliability and route length but then not long after this was undone when the 15 was cut and the 8 was extended to the Queen Elizabeth hospital.

It would be nice to have loads of options and some places lost options due to Simplicity unfortunately so people will either be heavily reliant on 2 buses to get anywhere or have switched to cars.
Cardowan had to look up where that was. Don't see that on the destination displays now. 44 used to be well used, I am more familar with Southside section of the route.
 

PaulMc7

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Cardowan had to look up where that was. Don't see that on the destination displays now. 44 used to be well used, I am more familar with Southside section of the route.
Yeah the 38C and the train to Stepps is as close to Cardowan as public transport covers now. As much as I had to walk by getting it the 44 dodged a lot of the congestion by going via Woodlands Road and Glasgow University so it became so much better to use to avoid Great Western Road and Partick.

Losing the link from Knightswood to the west end absolutely caused issues for a lot of people. I also don't think it helps that there's no stop where you can get the 4/4A and the X4. It would have been fine if there was even a connection between the two but unfortunately not so the train and cars benefitted.
 
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Yeah the 38C and the train to Stepps is as close to Cardowan as public transport covers now. As much as I had to walk by getting it the 44 dodged a lot of the congestion by going via Woodlands Road and Glasgow University so it became so much better to use to avoid Great Western Road and Partick.

Losing the link from Knightswood to the west end absolutely caused issues for a lot of people. I also don't think it helps that there's no stop where you can get the 4/4A and the X4. It would have been fine if there was even a connection between the two but unfortunately not so the train and cars benefitted.
The obvious answer to connecting the x4 is to divert the 4/4A around Stockwell Place
 

PaulMc7

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The obvious answer to connecting the x4 is to divert the 4/4A around Stockwell Place
I'd have just had it so the X4 covered Broomhill and then down to Thornwood and onto the expressway. Adds a few mins but creates another quicker option for people in Broomhill too.
 

Tom Gallacher

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I'd have just had it so the X4 covered Broomhill and then down to Thornwood and onto the expressway. Adds a few mins but creates another quicker option for people in Broomhill too.
That's actually a good suggestion. It could also - possibly - attract existing train passengers from that area as the running time to the city centre wouldn't be that much different when you factor in the walk to and from the station.
 

ScotRail158725

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I'd have just had it so the X4 covered Broomhill and then down to Thornwood and onto the expressway. Adds a few mins but creates another quicker option for people in Broomhill too.
You’d be as well cutting it at Broomhill if you were going to do that. All that change would do would make it a slow, unattractive route for the already few people in Knightswood that use it.
 
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PaulMc7

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That's actually a good suggestion. It could also - possibly - attract existing train passengers from that area as the running time to the city centre wouldn't be that much different when you factor in the walk to and from the station.
That was my main reason for suggesting it to be fair. Going back to the old route in Knightswood that every other bus has followed would probably help too to be fair. Trying to turn at Victoria Park is absolutely hell on earth in the evening peak. It wouldn't actually add much running time to the overall route either.
 

Tom Gallacher

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That was my main reason for suggesting it to be fair. Going back to the old route in Knightswood that every other bus has followed would probably help too to be fair. Trying to turn at Victoria Park is absolutely hell on earth in the evening peak. It wouldn't actually add much running time to the overall route either.
You would still need to run a service along Victoria Park Dr North (as opposed to going along Southbrae and turning at Jordanhill Station which would be the sensible route) though or you would run foul of the Jordanhill blue rinse gangster grannies.
 

mb3

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By goodness you're showing your age.

I remember the 58 which was similar to the west end of the 6 these days. My memory of the 10 is a bit hazy but it went to Carntyne in the east end and was jointly operated by Knightswood and Gartcraig depots.

Thanks for the info. When I was younger it was the 42, 62, 66, 204, 205, 215 and 216 for me and then the 9, 42A and 44 a bit further along. Other than Great Western Retail Park being a bit more accessible and the Knightswood to Glasgow West End link not too much has changed since. It's a shame though as I feel the 44 and even when it changed to the 4 they were much busier than the X4 a lot of the time.

I only ever remember the 6 for going to Cardowan from Garscadden but not actually using it. It's a shame the orbital routes that offered a lot of options are mostly gone but it's the main issue in a city that's heavily focused on City Centre travel by bus and car for anywhere else.

I don't see orbital routes being massively profit making anytime soon so I doubt there will ever be other services like the 8 and 90 especially as they both get loads of reliability issues due to the route lengths and congestion through a lot of the areas they serve.

I even remember with the 8 hearing a driver being asked about why they cut it from Carmyle to just Parkhead and they mentioned just because of reliability and route length but then not long after this was undone when the 15 was cut and the 8 was extended to the Queen Elizabeth hospital.

It would be nice to have loads of options and some places lost options due to Simplicity unfortunately so people will either be heavily reliant on 2 buses to get anywhere or have switched to cars.
When I was younger, very nearby was the 42, 42A, 92 & 159 when it ran. It was good to have many First bus options to Partick and a direct link to Clydebank without the need to walk down towards Yoker or change buses in Drumchapel, a thing residents of my area still need to do years since the withdrawal of the 92.'

It would be good to once again have a direct link to Partick as Avondale's 400 service cannot really be relied upon, with its buses seeming like they are held together with tape and seem like they are falling apart and at time not showing up at all. The link to Clydebank would also be useful through my area as the M11 is a fairly poor service with it being infrequent.
 

92002

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When I was younger, very nearby was the 42, 42A, 92 & 159 when it ran. It was good to have many First bus options to Partick and a direct link to Clydebank without the need to walk down towards Yoker or change buses in Drumchapel, a thing residents of my area still need to do years since the withdrawal of the 92.'

It would be good to once again have a direct link to Partick as Avondale's 400 service cannot really be relied upon, with its buses seeming like they are held together with tape and seem like they are falling apart and at time not showing up at all. The link to Clydebank would also be useful zDpt Sthrough my area as the M11 is a fairly poor service with it being infrequent.
The infrequent M11 runs every 30 minutes and gets an SPT tendered service in the evening.

Although the times slip as the day goes on. So hardly infrequent. Other parts have no service at all.

Enough said about Avondale, but it does stop at 1700 ish.
 
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The infrequent M11 runs every 30 minutes and gets an SPT tendered service in the evening.

Although the times slip as the day goes on. So hardly infrequent. Other parts have no service at all.

Enough said about Avondale, but it does stop at 1700 ish.
Outside of any services I’ve ever driven I’m unaware what areas are under served tbh, I have said though that the network looks like it could be a little more diverse and in turn SPT wouldn’t need to spend quite so much on subsidising some of the smaller routes if they could be removed.

Quite easily the 6 could be partially rerouted to include Dyke Rd.
 
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