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First Greater Glasgow

stait.john

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17 May 2013
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381
Ironically, a very similar position in Bristol with huge gaps in service and increased workloads for the buses that do run. And of course more loadings mean more time and more buses being late.

This very problem is causing more drivers to leave - it really is a catch 22.

Most passengers here do not take it out on the driver however, but it is making the job harder, as is tap on tap off, which should make things easier! It’s too time consuming.
 
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PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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4,029
Ironically, a very similar position in Bristol with huge gaps in service and increased workloads for the buses that do run. And of course more loadings mean more time and more buses being late.

This very problem is causing more drivers to leave - it really is a catch 22.

Most passengers here do not take it out on the driver however, but it is making the job harder, as is tap on tap off, which should make things easier! It’s too time consuming.
Tap on tap off has been a bit of a mess up here to be honest. It's made journeys so much longer because most of the machines either don't work or barely work so it then adds more time as the driver has to ask people to use the main ticket machine to tap off and then a lot of people can't hear through the driver's screen so it becomes frustrating on both sides.

As for the previous posts regarding splitting services and prioritising others, I think that would be an almost impossible task. The 7A for example, is only hourly on a Sunday and massively cut in route yet it's cancelled for seemingly a fair chunk of today going by the app as the next 2 are still cancelled and the previous runs had been too.

As for the 60, I think too many people use the Maryhill to Drumchapel end of it to prioritise the 60A over it. If anything off peak the 60A should probably go hourly and adopt a setup like the 4/4A have where the common part of the route is every 20 mins. The other option would be to extend some M60s to Maryhill but the problem is that then makes Scotstoun need to put more resources in just to save Caledonia some.

The one I think you could cut and shake up massively is the 38s. The main way I'd do it is cut all lettered variants except the 38As to operating between the City Centre and their terminus at Baillieston and Chryston and as part of this extend the 38B to Baillieston all week instead of just a Sunday. On the southside, make the 38s that go to Eastwood Toll into 38As and make them go to Rouken Glen keeping the Newton Mearns ones every 30 mins to Glasgow Fort from there.

For the 21, I'd argue that you could get rid of the Cathkin ones in the evening and just make it the Gardenhall ones. Most of the route of the short runs has the 267 anyway and then Cathkin has the 18 too.

The 61 is a tricky one because Summerston also has the 7/7A and 8 but the east end also has a lot of cover. It's only really Sandyhills that doesn't and even at that it's sandwiched in between 2 main roads with plenty of buses. I would say make the 64 hourly but it's mostly older people who are less mobile that use it so it's a tricky one.

I'd even argue you could make the 7A Osborne Street to Westburn permanently every 30 mins instead of the 24 mins then 36 mins gap we have now and make the 7 every 15 mins between Summerston and Rutherglen. The only issue is that would probably need a few double deckers as the north side of the 7 route can be absolutely loaded with people a lot of the time.

I'd not be surprised if the 16 went hourly off peak at some point. When Simplicity occurred, the bottom of Crow Road was supposed to be cut off anyway but got reversed last minute and other than peak times it carries so few passengers. I'd even cut the 8 back to Partick off peak too to save a bus or two as well.

I do wonder if the 2 could gain a variant to take the 81 off and cover Duntocher for it. It may result in a situation where it's a 12 minute frequency with 3 to Faifley and 2 to Duntocher but it save more resources.
 

92002

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Joined
27 Mar 2014
Messages
1,193
Location
Clydebank
Tap on tap off has been a bit of a mess up here to be honest. It's made journeys so much longer because most of the machines either don't work or barely work so it then adds more time as the driver has to ask people to use the main ticket machine to tap off and then a lot of people can't hear through the driver's screen so it becomes frustrating on both sides.

As for the previous posts regarding splitting services and prioritising others, I think that would be an almost impossible task. The 7A for example, is only hourly on a Sunday and massively cut in route yet it's cancelled for seemingly a fair chunk of today going by the app as the next 2 are still cancelled and the previous runs had been too.

As for the 60, I think too many people use the Maryhill to Drumchapel end of it to prioritise the 60A over it. If anything off peak the 60A should probably go hourly and adopt a setup like the 4/4A have where the common part of the route is every 20 mins. The other option would be to extend some M60s to Maryhill but the problem is that then makes Scotstoun need to put more resources in just to save Caledonia some.

The one I think you could cut and shake up massively is the 38s. The main way I'd do it is cut all lettered variants except the 38As to operating between the City Centre and their terminus at Baillieston and Chryston and as part of this extend the 38B to Baillieston all week instead of just a Sunday. On the southside, make the 38s that go to Eastwood Toll into 38As and make them go to Rouken Glen keeping the Newton Mearns ones every 30 mins to Glasgow Fort from there.

For the 21, I'd argue that you could get rid of the Cathkin ones in the evening and just make it the Gardenhall ones. Most of the route of the short runs has the 267 anyway and then Cathkin has the 18 too.

The 61 is a tricky one because Summerston also has the 7/7A and 8 but the east end also has a lot of cover. It's only really Sandyhills that doesn't and even at that it's sandwiched in between 2 main roads with plenty of buses. I would say make the 64 hourly but it's mostly older people who are less mobile that use it so it's a tricky one.

I'd even argue you could make the 7A Osborne Street to Westburn permanently every 30 mins instead of the 24 mins then 36 mins gap we have now and make the 7 every 15 mins between Summerston and Rutherglen. The only issue is that would probably need a few double deckers as the north side of the 7 route can be absolutely loaded with people a lot of the time.

I'd not be surprised if the 16 went hourly off peak at some point. When Simplicity occurred, the bottom of Crow Road was supposed to be cut off anyway but got reversed last minute and other than peak times it carries so few passengers. I'd even cut the 8 back to Partick off peak too to save a bus or two as well.

I do wonder if the 2 could gain a variant to take the 81 off and cover Duntocher for it. It may result in a situation where it's a 12 minute frequency with 3 to Faifley and 2 to Duntocher but it save more resources.
There were plasns a while back to send the 81 to Thornwood Roundabout then the Clydeside to Exhibition centre to the city. It would avoid Partick and become a psudo 2. For that matter it could use the expressway. However it never came to pass.
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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There were plasns a while back to send the 81 to Thornwood Roundabout then the Clydeside to Exhibition centre to the city. It would avoid Partick and become a psudo 2. For that matter it could use the expressway. However it never came to pass.
I vaguely remember that to be honest. We ended up with so many 1s that I don't think we need more now but the 1C and 1D need double deckers back even if it's just peak time. I'd also move them to Scotstoun fully do just for dead mileage purposes when driver resources are better. The only other real option is making a local route that's Mountblow to Duntocher via the 1D and 81 routes combined but that would get confusing as it would cover part of Kilbowie Road twice.
 

Albaman

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2018
Messages
112
For the 21, I'd argue that you could get rid of the Cathkin ones in the evening and just make it the Gardenhall ones. Most of the route of the short runs has the 267 anyway and then Cathkin has the 18 too.
From my observations , a substantial number of passengers alight from the 21 between Rutherglen Main Street and Cathkin which includes Fernhill and a location adjacent to the south east edge of Castlemilk. Whilst I agree the 21 and 267 do share the same route for a few miles, I don't think the citizens of Fernhill would appreciate the walk after alighting from a number 18.
 

PaulMc7

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From my observations , a substantial number of passengers alight from the 21 between Rutherglen Main Street and Cathkin which includes Fernhill and a location adjacent to the south east edge of Castlemilk. Whilst I agree the 21 and 267 do share the same route for a few miles, I don't think the citizens of Fernhill would appreciate the walk after alighting from a number 18.
The 21 wouldn't change frequency during the day, just the evening with it being one an hour to Glasgow already. From what I've used of it in the evening, it doesn't warrant having the short runs currently especially when they've began to have cancellations on them too.

On another note, I really do feel for drivers at Scotstoun now. There's roadworks just start at Kelvingrove Art Gallery and more at Scotstoun and this is while the roadworks in Yoker are still ongoing too. There's an awful lot of abusive passengers around as a result of this sadly. The social media is a mess and even a lot of the responses I've had for pointing out roadworks is awful.
 
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JumpinTrainz

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30 Jul 2018
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1,809
Passed by a 60 and 60A both brimming full. The front B9TL was displaying “bus full social distancing” and the E400MMC behind looked pretty full too.
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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4,029
Passed by a 60 and 60A both brimming full. The front B9TL was displaying “bus full social distancing” and the E400MMC behind looked pretty full too.
The 60/60A/61 seem to be affected by driver shortages more than most services to be honest from what I've seen. It also doesn't help when they are busy routes too. There's usually at least 2-3 complaints a day on the Twitter regarding them too in terms of not turning up or being absolutely packed.
 
Joined
31 Dec 2021
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834
Location
Glasgow
Sure was. Duke Street
The 60 route has two main areas where you’ll see it supremely busy.

If it’s traveling from the City Centre to either Clydebank or Milngavie you will see it busy in Maryhill because the 61 have been delayed or aren’t running, a similar story with the 61, if you see the 61 busy it’s because as we all know there are still major gaps in the 61 service alone.

If the 60 is busy on Duke Street heading in either direction it’s because it’s the only bus en masse which travels from Easterhouse to Duke St via Springboig, Shettleston & Parkhead, Glasgow X & Maryhill, not to mention the 60-duo have been notoriously unreliable for a LONG TIME now which obviously compounds the issue of unreliability.

Of course the 41 does travel from Easterhouse to Duke St via Edinburgh Rd/Carntyne but doesn’t pass through nearly as busy of an area like Shettleston and Parkhead, the 41 issue is also the fact that it actually only serves a very small portion of the city centre, personally I think the 41 should be extended to include Renfield St, Jamaica St, Broomielaw and terminating at the Glasgow Science Centre.
 

PaulMc7

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How many drivers are First actually short btw? I feel like it's coming down a bit but some services still get hammered with cancellations. It would be good to know how many more they actually need.
 

adrock1976

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10 Dec 2013
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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Two days ago on Tuesday when I was in the vicinity of the Royal Infirmary/Strathclyde Uni, I saw a branded X11 double decker on either the X85/87.

Is the X11 (which runs out to Newmains, Wishaw) a Caledonia route or is that Blantyre/Overtown (the former routes based at Motherwell KCB garage)?
 

Bus Lightyear

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16 Nov 2018
Messages
542
Two days ago on Tuesday when I was in the vicinity of the Royal Infirmary/Strathclyde Uni, I saw a branded X11 double decker on either the X85/87.

Is the X11 (which runs out to Newmains, Wishaw) a Caledonia route or is that Blantyre/Overtown (the former routes based at Motherwell KCB garage)?
I would assume the X11 is operated by a Lanarkshire garage.

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How many drivers are First actually short btw? I feel like it's coming down a bit but some services still get hammered with cancellations. It would be good to know how many more they actually need.
You could ask the exact same question of any bus depot or any bus operator in the entire country just now. It is an acute nationwide shortage of drivers and I don't think anybody is going to come on this forum and give you exact figures as the situation is probably changing on a day-to-day basis.
 
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PaulMc7

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I would assume the X11 is operated by a Lanarkshire garage.

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You could ask the exact same question of any bus depot or any bus operator in the entire country just now. It is an acute nationwide shortage of drivers and I don't think anybody is going to come on this forum and give you exact figures as the situation is probably changing on a day-to-day basis.
I know it is but no harm in asking when I use First 7 days a week.
 

Strathclyder

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12 Jun 2013
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3,460
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Clydebank
Two days ago on Tuesday when I was in the vicinity of the Royal Infirmary/Strathclyde Uni, I saw a branded X11 double decker on either the X85/87.

Is the X11 (which runs out to Newmains, Wishaw) a Caledonia route or is that Blantyre/Overtown (the former routes based at Motherwell KCB garage)?
I would assume the X11 is operated by a Lanarkshire garage.
Blantyre depot runs the X11. The buses in question have no doubt been transferred there from Caledonia.
 

route101

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16 May 2010
Messages
11,396
The 60 route has two main areas where you’ll see it supremely busy.

If it’s traveling from the City Centre to either Clydebank or Milngavie you will see it busy in Maryhill because the 61 have been delayed or aren’t running, a similar story with the 61, if you see the 61 busy it’s because as we all know there are still major gaps in the 61 service alone.

If the 60 is busy on Duke Street heading in either direction it’s because it’s the only bus en masse which travels from Easterhouse to Duke St via Springboig, Shettleston & Parkhead, Glasgow X & Maryhill, not to mention the 60-duo have been notoriously unreliable for a LONG TIME now which obviously compounds the issue of unreliability.

Of course the 41 does travel from Easterhouse to Duke St via Edinburgh Rd/Carntyne but doesn’t pass through nearly as busy of an area like Shettleston and Parkhead, the 41 issue is also the fact that it actually only serves a very small portion of the city centre, personally I think the 41 should be extended to include Renfield St, Jamaica St, Broomielaw and terminating at the Glasgow Science Centre.
The 41 used to run up Great Western Road, I believe.
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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The 41 used to run up GWR road I believe.
It did indeed. It ran to Drumchapel from Easterhouse. That road used to have a lot to be fair. The 11 ran part of it at different times and then there was the 20, 41 and 66 as well as the 91/92, 118 and 159 too. I am also forgetting the 51 and 59 too at different times.
 
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PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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the current 6A & 41 was the same route.
In Drumchapel, the 6A follows the old route of the 20 which then adds to the lack of sense that is the 21 currently. It wasn't the only numbering issue to come from Simplicity mind you. The 10/57 interlink when only one was changed is another. The 56 was fine as it was.
 

Tom Gallacher

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19 Mar 2021
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In Drumchapel, the 6A follows the old route of the 20 which then adds to the lack of sense that is the 21 currently. It wasn't the only numbering issue to come from Simplicity mind you. The 10/57 interlink when only one was changed is another. The 56 was fine as it was.
Being pedantic (as is my wont) the old route of the 20 when entering Drumchapel was along Drumry Road East, Dunkenny Road, Achamore Rd, Kinfauns Dr and Peel Glen Road. :'(:'(

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It did indeed. It ran to Drumchapel from Easterhouse. That road used to have a lot to be fair. The 11 ran part of it at different times and then there was the 20, 41 and 66 as well as the 91/92, 118 and 159 too. I am also forgetting the 51 and 59 too at different times.
You also had the 2 and the 58 along with Midland's 105 and Central's East Kilbride service (can't remember the number)
 

PaulMc7

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Being pedantic (as is my wont) the old route of the 20 when entering Drumchapel was along Drumry Road East, Dunkenny Road, Achamore Rd, Kinfauns Dr and Peel Glen Road. :'(:'(

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You also had the 2 and the 58 along with Midland's 105 and Central's East Kilbride service (can't remember the number)
I thought that was the 41? The 20 never covered Drumry Road East from memory or was there that many changes between all of the services I've forgotten one from when I was really young? The 9 and 42 took a turn doing it though before swapping out and they also took turns of going to Monymusk Place and Drumchapel Station.
 
Joined
21 Aug 2017
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Glasgow
I thought that was the 41? The 20 never covered Drumry Road East from memory or was there that many changes between all of the services I've forgotten one from when I was really young? The 9 and 42 took a turn doing it though before swapping out and they also took turns of going to Monymusk Place and Drumchapel Station.
The 20 came from Great Western Road and up the slip road to Duntreath Avenue into Drumchapel and vice versa. The 3 covers this section now.
 

PaulMc7

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The 20 came from GWR and up the slip road to Duntreath Avenue into Drumchapel and vice versa
I was thinking that. The network has been fairly stable since Simplicity in Drumchapel but before it especially between Overground and just before Simplicity there was a lot of changes.

The only one since I can think of is the 16 being put into Drumchapel and then taken back out. The 140 becoming the M60 with Simplicity is the one I can think of before that with the 6A also starting and of course the 1C.
 

EMU303

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24 Aug 2016
Messages
217
You also had the 2 and the 58 along with Midland's 105 and Central's East Kilbride service (can't remember the number)
Don’t remember the 2, which route was that?
The EK buses were I think the 138-140 which went to Faifley? Maybe I’m going too far back in time though…
 

duffers2324

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1 May 2014
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178
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Glasgow
I remember when Stagecoach also ran their version of the 20 in Drumchapel, this might possibly be what your thinking of @Tom Gallacher, it went up from the Centre up into Dunkenny Rd and then onto Achamore Rd but terminated up where the 1C now terminates at Monymusk pl,

I have always known the Strathclyde Buses/First 20 to come off Great Western Road onto the slip road onto Duntreath Ave and then into the centre but rather than go up Linkwood Ave as the 6A does now it carried straight on up Kinfauns Drive and then looped round from there via the current 6A onto Tallant Rd and then down Linkwood Ave to the centre and then back to East Kilbride.

Speaking of other buses that terminated in Drumchapel is it just me or is my memory playing tricks and did the 42 not terminate there as well, i think i remember it said Dalsetter Ave though and just of today now where exactly the bus may have had layover.
 
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GusB

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9 Jul 2016
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Elginshire
Could we avoid using jargon, please? Terms such as 'GWR' may make sense in a local context, but might not make sense to someone in another part of the country. Considering that this is primarily a railway forum, 'GWR' has another meaning and we should avoid any confusion. Thanks :)
 

Spsf3232

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21 Apr 2016
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Glasgow
From the 2000s drumchapel had the 120 service which ran against stagecoach. It looped around from the shopping centre, dunkenny road, achamore road, monymusk place, lady loan avenue, drummore road, kinfauns drive, tallant road, linkwood drive and back to the shopping centre and towards the city via Duntreath Ave.

Overground revised it into the 20 to E.K looping going via linkwood drive, kinfauns drive, tallant road and back again down linkwood drive to the shopping centre out towards the city via Duntreath Ave.

The 9 service covered the top end to Monymusk place via Drumry Rd roundabout.
Service 41 covered Peel Glen Road to Great Western Road, and 42 went to the station.

Since simplicity it is now the 6a as above.
The 9 is now the 3 running via Duntreath Ave, kinfauns drive to the station. 1C to Monymusk place.

The 40 or 60 has ran around kinfauns drive since the overground days, changed between the retail park and now Drumry road.

There has been a lot of changes over the years and lots of cuts especially to Great Western road services as back at Overground days we had the 20/41/66/59/11 covering most of it. It's not any less quiet yet we have less buses.
 

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