First Greater Glasgow

[318266]

Does anyone know if there is a list online of which routes operate from which depot? Can't seem to find any information.

I created my own list based on data from Bustimes if you want that.

 

[mb88]

I created my own list based on data from Bustimes if you want that.

Yes that would be great, thank you.

 

[LT02 NVV]

A minor, if rather admittedly pedantic correction: the tri-axle 'LT-class' Olympians that arrived in the early 2000s were ex-Hong Kong (specifically, ex-China Motor Bus & New World First Bus), not ex-Singapore. There was a ex-Singapore Olympian that arrived at the same time (all the vehicles in question had been transferred north from Manchester) - K174 EUX - but this was a twin-axle vehicle with a early Royale-style body (the LTs were R-Types) and was a early Volvo example (new June 1994; the LTs were late Leylands new in December 1993).

As for Parkhead getting lumbered with ex-London Tridents, things did somewhat improve with the later Presidents that arrived (which had been refurbished and converted to single-door prior to entering service here) and particularly with the arrival of the large number of the 53-reg ALX400 batch (the best Tridents Glasgow ever recieved, not that the competition was particularly stiff all things considered); used to be a treat when one appeared on my local route (the 62, now the 2). I tend to have a soft spot for the Tridents that arrived, having grown up with them and having done a good number of miles on them over the years with very few times where one 'sat down' on me (perhaps that was just luck on my part lol). But yeah, overall, quality did slip noticeably before the arrival of the E300s from late 2012 through to the end of 2013 (at the expense of overall capacity with the E400s mentioned above being diverted elsewhere, but that's another kettle of fish).

I doubt the real reason the E500s never appeared on the 62 as originally planned will ever be known for sure, although plenty of theories have sprung up! In the absence of a verified reason, we can only speculate on whether it was simply a change in direction at the highest level, deciding the 44/44A (then later the 75) was a better fit for them (with or without taking the headache that was the Baillieston loop into account; that latter one didn't stop a Nordic from very rarely slipping onto the 62 on occasion when Parkhead had a handful of them for a time. See attached image below*. The aforementioned LT Olympians were also semi-regulars on it during their time here) or anything of the sort. Was a shame all things considered, but meh. All purely academic now lol

*: Image copyright remains with A.W Shirley of GCSBromleygarage.com.

View attachment 100999

Note: I am back after a long time not talking about First Glasgow.


Some of the 51 & 02 plated Presidents that where kept in the Barbie livery started to show parts of the old First London red colours when by 2018/19, and some of them looked like they where ready for scrap. I also wonder why some buses like LT02 NVV, LK51 UZF, had the ”green leaf” style of seat pattern, but others such as most of the LN51 plated buses, had “the pink with mint green marks” style of seat pattern. LT02 NWC (The Last one still in Glasgow) has a mix of both, and so did a few others.
I can’t understand why they did such a bizarre thing for those buses.

Also, I kinda miss the Wright Eclipse Metro Volvo B7TLs, even with their flaws (Such as the back seat behind the engine of the bus, and how dirty those it was to sit there). My last time riding on them in public service was on the 60, the first one was the Ex-Manchester MV02 ? (I forgot the whole plate, but it did start with MV02), and on my favourite one of the batch, SJ51 DKL (Because it was still in Barbie Livery until it was scrapped). I am happy that one is at GVVT now,

 

[vla50]

Note: I am back after a long time not talking about First Glasgow.


Some of the 51 & 02 plated Presidents that where kept in the Barbie liver started to show parts of the old First London red colours when by 2018/19, and some of them looked like they where ready for scrap. I also wonder why some buses like LT02 NVV, LK51 UZF, had the ”green leaf” style of seat pattern, but others such as most of the LN51 plated buses, had “the pink with mint green marks” style of seat pattern. LT02 NWC (The Last one still in Glasgow) has a mix of both, and so did a few others.
I can’t understand why they did such a bizarre thing for those buses.

Also, I kinda miss the Wright Eclipse Metro Volvo B7TLs, even with their flaws (Such as the back seat behind the engine of the bus, and how dirty those it was to sit there), my last time riding on them in public service was on the 60, the first one was the Ex-Manchester MV02 ??? (I forgot the whole plate, but it did start with MV02), and on my favourite one of the batch, SJ51 DKL (Because it was still in Barbie Livery until it was scrapped). I am happy that one is at GVVT now,

Is LT02NWC still allocated to something or is it just a general spare?

 

[LT02 NVV]

Is LT02NWC still allocated to something or is it just a general spare?

It‘s in service, with the ALX400s that are still left. Since October 2020-ish, LT02 NWC has been seen mostly on the routes 4/A, 5, 10, 19, 41, 46, 57/A, 60/A, and occasionally it may make a rare appearance on the routes 2, 38, and 75.

It‘s in service, with the ALX400s that are still left. Since October 2020-ish, LT02 NWC has been seen mostly on the routes 4/A, 5, 10, 19, 41, 46, 57/A, 60/A, and occasionally it may make a rare appearance on the routes 2, 38, and 75.

Also, I forgot it was also on the 61 as a rare appearance too!

It‘s in service, with the ALX400s that are still left. Since October 2020-ish, LT02 NWC has been seen mostly on the routes 4/A, 5, 10, 19, 41, 46, 57/A, 60/A, and occasionally it may make a rare appearance on the routes 2, 38, and 75.


Also, I forgot it was also on the 61 as a rare appearance too!

Another thing also, I found out it was used on the 7/A as well.

33120 - LT02 NWC

Dennis Trident Plaxton President

bustimes.org

 

[cnjb8]

Note: I am back after a long time not talking about First Glasgow.


Some of the 51 & 02 plated Presidents that where kept in the Barbie livery started to show parts of the old First London red colours when by 2018/19, and some of them looked like they where ready for scrap. I also wonder why some buses like LT02 NVV, LK51 UZF, had the ”green leaf” style of seat pattern, but others such as most of the LN51 plated buses, had “the pink with mint green marks” style of seat pattern. LT02 NWC (The Last one still in Glasgow) has a mix of both, and so did a few others.
I can’t understand why they did such a bizarre thing for those buses.

Also, I kinda miss the Wright Eclipse Metro Volvo B7TLs, even with their flaws (Such as the back seat behind the engine of the bus, and how dirty those it was to sit there). My last time riding on them in public service was on the 60, the first one was the Ex-Manchester MV02 ? (I forgot the whole plate, but it did start with MV02), and on my favourite one of the batch, SJ51 DKL (Because it was still in Barbie Livery until it was scrapped). I am happy that one is at GVVT now,

Wright Eclipse Metro’s have a B7L chassis. B7TL is the double deck chassis.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Note: I am back after a long time not talking about First Glasgow.


Some of the 51 & 02 plated Presidents that where kept in the Barbie livery started to show parts of the old First London red colours when by 2018/19, and some of them looked like they where ready for scrap. I also wonder why some buses like LT02 NVV, LK51 UZF, had the ”green leaf” style of seat pattern, but others such as most of the LN51 plated buses, had “the pink with mint green marks” style of seat pattern. LT02 NWC (The Last one still in Glasgow) has a mix of both, and so did a few others.
I can’t understand why they did such a bizarre thing for those buses.

Also, I kinda miss the Wright Eclipse Metro Volvo B7TLs, even with their flaws (Such as the back seat behind the engine of the bus, and how dirty those it was to sit there). My last time riding on them in public service was on the 60, the first one was the Ex-Manchester MV02 ? (I forgot the whole plate, but it did start with MV02), and on my favourite one of the batch, SJ51 DKL (Because it was still in Barbie Livery until it was scrapped). I am happy that one is at GVVT now,

In terms of moquette, all would have been delivered in what I think you describe as green leaf.... greenish areas with a pattern of green and purple dashes bordered by dark purple bands. This was the original First interior. If they were refurbished in the late 2000s, they would have received the lilac (that faded badly). Some got more indepth refurbs on leaving London than others.

As regards the B7Ls, the enthusiast in me did like them but for passengers, they were awful. Bad seats, engine noise etc. Not much good for First as they were very poor on fuel. Most people won't mourn them.

 

[Jordan Adam]

In terms of moquette, all would have been delivered in what I think you describe as green leaf.... greenish areas with a pattern of green and purple dashes bordered by dark purple bands. This was the original First interior. If they were refurbished in the late 2000s, they would have received the lilac (that faded badly). Some got more indepth refurbs on leaving London than others.

As regards the B7Ls, the enthusiast in me did like them but for passengers, they were awful. Bad seats, engine noise etc. Not much good for First as they were very poor on fuel. Most people won't mourn them.

The lilac fabric came in to use in 2008. I think some of the Tridents were retrimmed with this style when they were converted to single door. The main reason for the inconsistency will be because the Tridents moved to Glasgow at varying points. Additionally some depots still use the 1997 style fabric on retrims, perhaps most notably Aberdeen.

To be fair if the B7Ls had a proper refurb they would've been fine. Aberdeen's B7LAs were extensively refurbished in 2015 with new insulation around the engine, deep clean, seats retrimmed and all interior fittings painted and it worked wonders, post-refurb engine noise wasn't really any worse than any other bus type. The issue was most First opcos let their B7Ls get in to a state that was probably beyond financial repair and being unpopular buses they were always going to be withdrawn as soon as possible. It perhaps says something that older more popular B10BLEs outlasted them.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The lilac fabric came in to use in 2008. I think some of the Tridents were retrimmed with this style when they were converted to single door. The main reason for the inconsistency will be because the Tridents moved to Glasgow at varying points. Additionally some depots still use the 1997 style fabric on retrims, perhaps most notably Aberdeen.

To be fair if the B7Ls had a proper refurb they would've been fine. Aberdeen's B7LAs were extensively refurbished in 2015 with new insulation around the engine, deep clean, seats retrimmed and all interior fittings painted and it worked wonders, post-refurb engine noise wasn't really any worse than any other bus type. The issue was most First opcos let their B7Ls get in to a state that was probably beyond financial repair and being unpopular buses they were always going to be withdrawn as soon as possible. It perhaps says something that older more popular B10BLEs outlasted them.

The B7Ls were horrible buses. I remember them when new on the 61. I was always hoping a B10BLE would come along instead. They have always smelled and the engine noise was horrific. They also rattled like mad and always felt really underpowered. I think you are right about the maintenance of them. It felt like they never got any better other than when First tried to install TVs on board!

Hopefully as we start to see new buses in the next few years the old First interiors from the 90s will fade out in favour of a more standard fleet.

 

[Strathclyder]

It‘s in service, with the ALX400s that are still left. Since October 2020-ish, LT02 NWC has been seen mostly on the routes 4/A, 5, 10, 19, 41, 46, 57/A, 60/A, and occasionally it may make a rare appearance on the routes 2, 38, and 75.

The 2 is now solely in the hands of Scotstoun depot, has been since at least mid/late July. With all the remaining Tridents staying put at Caledonia (the remaining President B7TLs at Scotstoun - 32300-301/303-305 - were moved across to Caledonia at the same time), sights like this are now confined to the history books (attached images are my own).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The lilac fabric came in to use in 2008. I think some of the Tridents were retrimmed with this style when they were converted to single door. The main reason for the inconsistency will be because the Tridents moved to Glasgow at varying points. Additionally some depots still use the 1997 style fabric on retrims, perhaps most notably Aberdeen.

To be fair if the B7Ls had a proper refurb they would've been fine. Aberdeen's B7LAs were extensively refurbished in 2015 with new insulation around the engine, deep clean, seats retrimmed and all interior fittings painted and it worked wonders, post-refurb engine noise wasn't really any worse than any other bus type. The issue was most First opcos let their B7Ls get in to a state that was probably beyond financial repair and being unpopular buses they were always going to be withdrawn as soon as possible. It perhaps says something that older more popular B10BLEs outlasted them.

I think you're right on 2008 - certainly the Bristol 58 plate B9s had it but think the 57 plates had the older. I think the inconsistency also came about because of who did the conversions to single door whether it be First Glasgow, the central facility at Rotherham, or external contractors. First Cymru had a number of W and X reg Marshall Darts and some were PSVAR compliant but some weren’t depending on who did the conversion.

As for B7Ls, the seats were terrible and wholesale replacement rather than refurbishment would only save them. And still no getting away from the intrusive engine noise (even when new) nor the heat. I know insulation degrades and can be replaced but they weren’t great. The lack of fuel economy was also pretty poor. However, I understand the enthusiast view in that they were quirky and had the thrash factor some like.

 

[Busman84]

Drivers too hated the B7Ls. The dashboards became loose on them falling over towards the handbrake area. A number of them did end up having metal brackets fixed onto both the dashboard and interior bodywork so that only the steering wheel could be adjusted rather than the complete steering and dashboard together..
The interior mirrors were also different from the rest of the fleet. You could not see much of the saloon either. Not that it mattered as usually if it was a B7L it broke down. Even early Tridents (T to Y reg) were far better than B7Ls.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Drivers too hated the B7Ls. The dashboards became loose on them falling over towards the handbrake area. A number of them did end up having metal brackets fixed onto both the dashboard and interior bodywork so that only the steering wheel could be adjusted rather than the complete steering and dashboard together.

That may just have something to do with local maintenance standards? The cabs on FSE/Glasgow vehicles always seem to be in far poorer condition compared to native vehicles up here, especially in the past.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I spotted a new 9/9A branded E200EV at Caledonia. It looks smart.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I spotted a new 9/9A branded E200EV at Caledonia. It looks smart.

Are they in just the usual lilac livery with a colour front? I had heard word that they'd be doing a slightly different livery/branding for the new EVs but I'm not sure on the truth of that.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Are they in just the usual lilac livery with a colour front? I had heard word that they'd be doing a slightly different livery/branding for the new EVs but I'm not sure on the truth of that.

Just the usual livery with pink wedged front although the branding hasn’t been applied just yet. That’s not to say they won’t alter it slightly.

They look like quite big solid buses because of the panels on the roof and the bigger wheels in comparison to say the E300s and look very smart.

 

[Zakforbes4]

I spotted a new 9/9A branded E200EV at Caledonia. It looks smart.

any pictures?

 

[GALLANTON]

any pictures?

I'd imagine if there was pictures publically available, someone wouldve posted a link.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

any pictures?

Unfortunately not.

I’m not sure what the protocol is for posting photos on here as I’ve had someone quote me about posting photos and the post has been deleted.

 

[ScotRail158725]

any pictures?

No, management aren’t wanting pictures out. Its probably best people listen to what they say and don't go spreading through the fence shots etc.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

No, Management aren’t wanting pictures out. Its probably best people listen to what they say and dont go spreading through the fence shots etc..

If they are taken from public land then I don't see what the issue is.

 

[PaulMc7]

They must be very well hidden within the depot given the location of Caley. It's just off a busy, main road in an area not far from the city centre. I would think enthusiasts would have been all over that with plenty of pictures taken. It would probably be unavoidable that at least one person would upload pictures somewhere online too.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

They must be very well hidden within the depot given the location of Caley. Off of a busy, main road in an area not far from the city centre. Would think enthusiasts would have been all over that with plenty of pictures taken. Would probably be unavoidable that at least one person would upload pictures somewhere online too.

The bus is on full display at the front of the depot so it was easy to see when passing in the car.

 

[LT02 NVV]

Drivers too hated the B7Ls. The dashboards became loose on them falling over towards the handbrake area. A number of them did end up having metal brackets fixed onto both the dashboard and interior bodywork so that only the steering wheel could be adjusted rather than the complete steering and dashboard together..
The interior mirrors were also different from the rest of the fleet. You could not see much of the saloon either. Not that it mattered as usually if it was a B7L it broke down. Even early Tridents (T to Y reg) were far better than B7Ls.

What, really? The T-Reg Plaxton President Tridents were much worse; they had the worst type of staircases, and I even remember that back around 2009/2010ish, 2 broke down at Clydebank on the 40 & 40a, and an old Alexander PS Volvo B10 type had to replace one of them, but yeah, the conditions of some of the Eclipse Metros between 2015-2019 where just awful, and I would say that the W-reg one that was kept till 2017-ish, the X-reg, and Y-reg plated Presidents where much better.

I found some pictures online of some of the old First Glasgow T-reg Presidents. One of the pictures is of them having the 2nd door, and the other picture features the weird staircases they had. Photos are Attached below, and come from: https://jimmyshengukbuses.smugmug.com/Operators-First-Group/First-Group/ADL-Enviro-200-MMC

The 2 is now solely in the hands of Scotstoun depot, has been since at least mid/late July. With all the remaining Tridents staying put at Caledonia (the remaining President B7TLs at Scotstoun - 32300-301/303-305 - were moved across to Caledonia at the same time), sights like this are now confined to the history books (attached images are my own).

View attachment 101375 View attachment 101376

Actually 32301 & 32305 are at Dumbarton now, working the 1C &1D and a few rare 206 Services.

The lilac fabric came in to use in 2008. I think some of the Tridents were retrimmed with this style when they were converted to single door. The main reason for the inconsistency will be because the Tridents moved to Glasgow at varying points. Additionally some depots still use the 1997 style fabric on retrims, perhaps most notably Aberdeen.

To be fair if the B7Ls had a proper refurb they would've been fine. Aberdeen's B7LAs were extensively refurbished in 2015 with new insulation around the engine, deep clean, seats retrimmed and all interior fittings painted and it worked wonders, post-refurb engine noise wasn't really any worse than any other bus type. The issue was most First opcos let their B7Ls get in to a state that was probably beyond financial repair and being unpopular buses they were always going to be withdrawn as soon as possible. It perhaps says something that older more popular B10BLEs outlasted them.

Yeah, that’s what I was talking about with “Green Leaf”, and ”Dotted” seats, and I do think they first started to appear in re-trims in late 2007, as most buses made for First from 2008-2012 had those ”dotted” seats.

 

[PaulMc7]

The bus is on full display at the front of the depot so it was easy to see when passing in the car.

I'm surprised there's nothing online then. There was a day not so long ago I was on a 267 into Rutherglen and there was a group of enthusiasts across the road from the depot taking photos. I didn't notice directly what it was they were taking photos of specifically but with how easy it is to do I'm surprised it's not been done.

 

[route101]

I recall one of the T reg double deckers lasting a while at Caledonia depot.

 

[LT02 NVV]

I recall one of the T reg double deckers lasting a while at Caledonia depot.

Yeah, one was kept till 2016, mostly for the route 19 from what I know.
First Glasgow 32840 T840 LLC was the bus.

First Glasgow Buses and Coaches in the 21st Century - Victoryguy

I've pulled together all my First Glasgow digital images right back to the start, when I was using a 2.4 megapixel Fuji Finepix camera which I thought was the best there would ever be..........count these pixels whilst you can:-) This collection covers both First Glasgow's Number One and...

victoryguy.smugmug.com

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Yeah, one was kept till 2016, mostly for the route 19 from what I know.
First Glasgow 32840 T840 LLC was the bus.

First Glasgow Buses and Coaches in the 21st Century - Victoryguy

I've pulled together all my First Glasgow digital images right back to the start, when I was using a 2.4 megapixel Fuji Finepix camera which I thought was the best there would ever be..........count these pixels whilst you can:-) This collection covers both First Glasgow's Number One and...

victoryguy.smugmug.com

They were truly horrible buses. I recall getting one on the 61 and the driver couldn’t get the indicators to stop. Even he seemed fed up with them. They had been clapped out by the time they left London I don’t know who ever thought that would have been a good idea. These were being put on routes that once had brand new buses.

 

[LT02 NVV]

They were truly horrible buses. I recall getting one on the 61 and the driver couldn’t get the indicators to stop. Even he seemed fed up with them. They had been clapped out by the time they left London I don’t know who ever thought that would have been a good idea. These were being put on routes that once had brand new buses.

I have to agree with you; even some of the Barbie livery 51 and 02 Reg ones (my favourite Trident Plaxton Presidents) looked awful from outside. This bus in the photo was seen here in 2017, and it looked really awful. Thankfully it did get a new livery before its withdrawal.

First Glasgow 33054 (LN51GKL)

Transforming Travel...Better journeys for life.... Typical output from First Glasgow and its contemptible standard of vehicle presentation in Glasgow represented by this superannuated former London Trident/Plaxton entering Bridge Street. Vehicles like this should not be in daily frontline...

www.flickr.com

 

[route101]

They were truly horrible buses. I recall getting one on the 61 and the driver couldn’t get the indicators to stop. Even he seemed fed up with them. They had been clapped out by the time they left London I don’t know who ever thought that would have been a good idea. These were being put on routes that once had brand new buses.

These deckers had hardly any seating downstairs.