First Greater Glasgow

[GaryMcEwan]

I'm unsure if this has ever been answered but was there ever any logical reasoning given for Caledonia and Scotstoun depot based drivers getting £13 per hour compared to Dumbarton/Overtown and Blantyre getting £12.35 an hour? It makes zero sense especially given that all 3 of the depots on lower rates have routes that cover into Glasgow City Centre.

Is it not something to do with the old Strathclyde Buses and Kelvin Scottish set up.

Happy to be corrected if not.

 

[Stef434]

I'm unsure if this has ever been answered but was there ever any logical reasoning given for Caledonia and Scotstoun depot based drivers getting £13 per hour compared to Dumbarton/Overtown and Blantyre getting £12.35 an hour? It makes zero sense especially given that all 3 of the depots on lower rates have routes that cover into Glasgow City Centre.

Historically First Glasgow 1 and First Glasgow 2 were two entirely separate businesses with their own terms and conditions. Whilst both are now part of First Glasgow, the demographic differences mean that it simply isn’t possible to have both operating with the same cost base.

FG1 predominantly serves the city, where the population density is greater, and passengers travel relatively short distances. FG2 on the other hand mostly serves areas outside the city where the population density is lower, and passengers travel proportionally longer distances.
The impact these demographic differences have at route level can best be seen in the passenger and revenue per mile statistics both operations produce.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I'm unsure if this has ever been answered but was there ever any logical reasoning given for Caledonia and Scotstoun depot based drivers getting £13 per hour compared to Dumbarton/Overtown and Blantyre getting £12.35 an hour? It makes zero sense especially given that all 3 of the depots on lower rates have routes that cover into Glasgow City Centre.

It’s likely a dinosaur old tradition, Dumbarton and the Lanarkshire depots were never Strathclyde buses therefore never were they given the same wages.

I agree they should all be on the same.

 

[stevenedin]

It would make sense to do the same but it happens in other places too. Edinburgh has the same issue. City drivers get paid more than drivers of Lothian Country or East Coast Buses.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

It would make sense to do the same but it happens in other places too. Edinburgh has the same issue. City drivers get paid more than drivers of Lothian Country or East Coast Buses.

To be fair those East Coast/Lothian Country drivers are on £13ph/£15.60 overtime.

Back to First Glasgow, under that banner alone the profit margin taken by the city can help provide £13ph to “all” First Glasgow drivers regardless of area served. First has a significant portion of Lanarkshire under their wing and it does take decent money, perhaps less so that it did. Keep in mind though that the likes of the 240 & 267 are taking considerable length into the city area.

At the end of the day it’s a revenue saving technique, nothing more.

 

[PaulMc7]

To be fair those east coast/LC drivers are on £13ph/£15.60 OT.

Back to first Glasgow, under that banner alone the profit margin taken by the city can help provide £13ph to “all” First Glasgow driver irregardless of area served, First has a significant portion of Lanarkshire under there wing and it does take decent money, perhaps less so that it did, keep in mind though that the likes of the 240 & 267 are taking considerable length into the city area.

At the end of the day it’s a revenue saving technique, nothing more.

The key thing for First in Lanarkshire is they control large parts of the right Lanarkshire towns to make good money. If First consulted the public they'd probably find better ways to run services too and it's baffling as to why they don't.

East Kilbride always seems to strike me as the big Lanarkshire let down to be fair and the people there definitely feel the same given what is usually said online and in public regarding First in the area. I wonder how losing the SPT tenders M1 and 205 will go because they were busy by SPT tenders' standards.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

To be fair those east coast/LC drivers are on £13ph/£15.60 OT.

Although First Glasgow pay double time for overtime.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Although First Glasgow pay double time for overtime.

Aw yeah now they do, are the No’2 depots getting that overtime rate?

 

[lastbus]

Aw yeah now they do, are the No’2 depots getting that overtime rate?

Yes

 

[PaulMc7]

There seem to be so many more buses missing today than there have been for a while, to be honest. 2 2s missing after work and the next only went to Scotstoun and my bus this morning only went to Scotstoun too. The 3s seem to be as bad too.

Fair enough having buses missing is unavoidable but the scheduling around it seems to be very poor at times.


Changes have been registered for August 29th on VOSA today too:

The list is quite long to be fair:

• PM0000006/225 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: East Kilbride Bus Station to South Lanarkshire College
  Service number: 120
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/146 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Newmains, West Crindledyke to Glasgow Buchanan Bus Station via Wishaw, Motherwell
  Service number: X11
  Service type: Limited Stop, Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/119 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Glasgow, City Centre ( Buchanan Bus Station) to Cumbernauld Town Centre via Muirhead, Moddiesburn, Westfield, Craiglinn & Cumbernauld Town Centre
  Service number: X3
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/424 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hamilton Bus Station to Hamilton Campus
  Service number: U1
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/357 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hamilton Bus Station to Buchanan Bus Station via Blantyre, Cambuslang, Rutherglen
  Service number: 267
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/423 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Shotts or Newmains, West Crindledyke to Hamilton Bus Station via Wishaw, Motherwell
  Service number: 266
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/354 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hamilton Bus Station to Buchanan Bus Station via Uddingston, Tollcross, Parkhead
  Service number: 255
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/353 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Newarthill, Mosshall Street to Motherwell, West Hamilton Street via Carfin
  Service number: 254
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/181 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Holytown or Maxim Bus Bay to Overtown via Wishaw
  Service number: 242
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/134 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Coltness/Cleland to Blantyre, Overtown or North Motherwell via Wishaw, Muirhouse
  Service number: 241
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/5 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Pather or Overtown or Motherwell to Glasgow Bus Station
  Service number: 240
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/3 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Hillhouse Farm Road to Fairhill, Burnhouse Road or Little Earnock
  Service number: 226
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/12 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Petersburn Minch Way to East Kilbride, Hairmyres Hospital Rail Station
  Service number: 201
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/280 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Glasgow Buchanan Bus Station to Torrance or Lennoxtown or Kilsyth via Bishopbriggs
  Service number: 89 (89A, 89B)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/47 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Kirkintilloch, Harestanes ( Ellisland Drive), Campsie Glen, Kilsyth ( to Glasgow (Buchanan Bus Station)
  Service number: 88 (88A, 88C)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/406 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Auchinairn (Westhill) to Glasgow Buchanan Bus Station via Springburn
  Service number: 87
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000006/183 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  Route: Glasgow, (City Centre, Holland Street) to East Kilbride, Greenhills via Rutherglen
  Service number: 18
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/95 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Glasgow City Centre, Buchanan Bus Station to Silverburn
  Service number: x8
  Service type: Circular, Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/602 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Knightswood, Knightscliffe Ave to Stockwell Place via Lincoln Avenue
  Service number: X4
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/13 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Easterhouse, Terminus to Hillington Estate via Govan
  Service number: 765
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/12 Cancelled​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Drumchapel, Station to Penilee via Braehead Bus Stance
  Service number: 709
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/637 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Sandyhills, Balbeggie Street to Summerston, Turning Circle
  Service number: 61
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/638 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Easterhouse, Terminus to Clydebank Bus Station or Milngavie
  Service number: 60 (60A)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/68 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Easterhouse Lochend Road Terminus to Glasgow, West Regent Street
  Service number: 41
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/636 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Easterhouse Shopping Centre to West Regent Street, Glasgow
  Service number: 19
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

• PM0000001/374 Registered​

  FIRST GLASGOW (NO1) LTD
  Route: Buchanan Bus Station to Linwood, Penilee or Braehead via Paisley
  Service number: 9 (9A)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 29 Aug 2022

 

[Stan Drews]

All local bus service registrations are required to revert to their March 2020 position by 1st September, unless they have been varied/cancelled using the regular 70 day notice period, during the pandemic.
Therefore, if operators wish to continue running timetables that were introduced using the reduced notification periods (that have been permitted during the pandemic), they have to formally register them using the full notice period. For that to take place prior to 1st September, the most likely start dates will be Sun/Mon 28/29 Aug, and those registrations will be submitted to the Office of the Traffic Commissioner no later than this Sunday/Monday.

 

[PaulMc7]

All local bus service registrations are required to revert to their March 2020 position by 1st September, unless they have been varied/cancelled using the regular 70 day notice period, during the pandemic.
Therefore, if operators wish to continue running timetables that were introduced using the reduced notification periods (that have been permitted during the pandemic), they have to formally register them using the full notice period. For that to take place prior to 1st September, the most likely start dates will be Sun/Mon 28/29 Aug, and those registrations will be submitted to the Office of the Traffic Commissioner no later than this Sunday/Monday.

Thank you for the information. I'm guessing it's likely this is nowhere near the end of First's registrations then given how short of drivers they are meaning pre-covid levels are impossible. I'd expect the network to reduce further if anything soon.

 

[Stan Drews]

Thank you for the information. I'm guessing it's likely this is nowhere near the end of First's registrations then given how short of drivers they are meaning pre-covid levels are impossible. I'd expect the network to reduce further if anything soon.

A lot of their current timetables will have been introduced using the short notice dispensation, so it’s quite possible that some of these registrations could actually just mean the current timetables will continue, but they have to do it through the full formal process.

 

[PaulMc7]

A lot of their current timetables will have been introduced using the short notice dispensation, so it’s quite possible that some of these registrations could actually just mean the current timetables will continue, but they have to do it through the full formal process.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[adrock1976]

I'm unsure if this has ever been answered but was there ever any logical reasoning given for Caledonia and Scotstoun depot based drivers getting £13 per hour compared to Dumbarton/Overtown and Blantyre getting £12.35 an hour? It makes zero sense especially given that all 3 of the depots on lower rates have routes that cover into Glasgow City Centre.

Caledonia (formerly Larkfield/Parkhead) and Scotstoun (formerly Knightswood) were the ex Glasgow Corporation/Strathclyde, with Dumbarton, Overtown (and the former Motherwell and Cumbernauld) being the ex KCB.

Personally, I believe it should be the exact same pay regardless of which garage as it is the same company.

 

[PaulMc7]

Caledonia (formerly Larkfield/Parkhead) and Scotstoun (formerly Knightswood) were the ex Glasgow Corporation/Strathclyde, with Dumbarton, Overtown (and the former Motherwell and Cumbernauld) being the ex KCB.

Personally, I believe it should be the exact same pay regardless of which garage as it is the same company.

Thanks for the info. Yes, it absolutely should be the same pay for everyone. To be fair with Blantyre especially from what I've read and heard from people who have worked there pay is only the tip of the iceberg regarding problems. I've known people at Caledonia, Scotstoun and Blantyre in recent years but not Overtown and Dumbarton.

In general with First, it seems to be far more negative than positive from a working experience.

 

[scosutsut]

Caledonia (formerly Larkfield/Parkhead) and Scotstoun (formerly Knightswood) were the ex Glasgow Corporation/Strathclyde, with Dumbarton, Overtown (and the former Motherwell and Cumbernauld) being the ex KCB.

Personally, I believe it should be the exact same pay regardless of which garage as it is the same company.

Dumbarton being the indirect replacement for Old Kilpatrick, from the KCB days.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Fair enough having buses missing is unavoidable but the scheduling around it seems to be very poor at times.

It's maybe not as simple as you think. Depot Clerks at times could be left with no alternative but to cancel consecutive journeys.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2022 ==

Dumbarton being the indirect replacement for Old Kilpatrick, from the KCB days.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure Old Kilpatrick was locally referred to as Gavinburn depot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2022 ==

Caledonia (formerly Larkfield/Parkhead) and Scotstoun (formerly Knightswood) were the ex Glasgow Corporation/Strathclyde, with Dumbarton, Overtown (and the former Motherwell and Cumbernauld) being the ex KCB.

Personally, I believe it should be the exact same pay regardless of which garage as it is the same company.

Going back 36 years ago before deregulation took place, from what I remember of First Glasgow's predecessors depots -

Strathclyde - Larkfield, Parkhead, Possilpark, Knightswood, Gartcraig, Newlands
Kelvin - Old Kilpatrick, Milngavie, Kirkintilloch, Stepps, Cumbernauld
Central - Airdrie, Wishaw, Motherwell, Hamilton, East Kilbride

There may be others and hopefully someone can put me right.

Not a predecessor of First but Clydeside had a depot on Carnwadric Road, Thornliebank but they pulled all of their services from the area when the depot closed.

 

[92002]

Caledonia (formerly Larkfield/Parkhead) and Scotstoun (formerly Knightswood) were the ex Glasgow Corporation/Strathclyde, with Dumbarton, Overtown (and the former Motherwell and Cumbernauld) being the ex KCB.

Personally, I believe it should be the exact same pay regardless of which garage as it is the same company.

Considering that the one group of services are one of the largest money making services for First. Which are part of the No 2 company, run by Dumbarton. That operate wholly to the city. It makes more sense for Dumbarton to be part of the no 1 company.

In reality however the two companies should be merged into one, with similar conditions of service and pay. Its a good while since Glasgow corporation existed and no need for such history to get continued.

 

[PaulMc7]

The other thing that makes it strange to me is the fact they've merged so many depots that you have No 2 services operating out of Caledonia in the No 1 region hence there isn't need to separate them any longer and it should be one company only.

As for pay and conditions, everyone on the same rate would be a start but I think you'd need to massively build up reputation as a good employer and pretty quickly if you want more drivers to come in and also stick around.

There is definitely a vibe of "don't go there to work" anytime First are mentioned and that does seem to have spread around Glasgow pretty quickly. Pay increases are great but in 2022 in any industry they aren't the be all and end all like they used to be.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Pay will get people in the door but it's how they are treated that keeps them there and how the employer uses its duty of care to its employees

 

[DC21]

Looking at the August changes, can anyone confirm the 240 going back into Pather and the 242 running to Overtown? I see the 241 has starting and finishing points of Overtown and Blantyre. I'm presuming these changes aren't what the actual routes will be.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Looking at the August changes, can anyone confirm the 240 going back into Pather and the 242 running to Overtown? I see the 241 has starting and finishing points of Overtown and Blantyre. I'm presuming these changes aren't what the actual routes will be.

Perhaps this is why they are standing to debrand the E200MMCs.

 

[DC21]

Perhaps this is why they are standing to debrand the E200MMCs.

Possibly right there. Although I don't see a point of the 240 switching to Pather and 242 to Overtown, as Pathers evening buses aren't run by First and the 240 would still go to Overtown at night.

 

[lastbus]

Possibly right there. Although I don't see a point of the 240 switching to Pather and 242 to Overtown, as Pathers evening buses aren't run by First and the 240 would still go to Overtown at night.

No change to 240 or 242 routes. The Registration for the 240 has had Pather in it for years. Some 242s already start and finish at Overtown depot.

 

[PaulMc7]

No change to 240 or 242 routes. The Registration for the 240 has had Pather in it for years. Some 242s already start and finish at Overtown depot.

Are there any timetable or route changes to come anytime soon?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Is there a 38 branded E400MMC on loan to Blantyre or are some of the batch being moved to Blantyre?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Is there a 38 branded E400MMC on loan to Blantyre or are some of the batch being moved to Blantyre?

34389 has been tracking on the 21 and 201 over the last couple of days. Just seems to be the only one that's at Blantrye.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

34389 has been tracking on the 21 and 201 over the last couple of days. Just seems to be the only one that's at Blantrye.

34388 has also been reported as transferring to Blantyre. It was mentioned around 3 weeks ago that 34388-34392 are to end up at Blantyre eventually

 

[JumpinTrainz]

34388 has also been reported as transferring to Blantyre. It was mentioned around 3 weeks ago that 34388-34392 are to end up at Blantyre eventually

I wonder if this will see off the YN08 B9TLs at Blantyre and have it exclusively E400MMCs.

I dare say it maybe would have made sense to move over the ex-FSE E400MMCs branded for the 41 and convert that route to electric given it’s a popular route and it’s relatively short so would be suitable for the E400EVs.