First Greater Glasgow

[PaulMc7]

It’s a bit tedious when its the only conversation every day

Fair enough but it's really not every day plus unlike other times it was one part of bigger issues being discussed. The working conditions and tap on tap off were discussed more. In an industry where the passenger comes first, anything app related is relevant.

 

[GusB]

It's relevant to the current situation unfortunately so it will come up. With First currently, it's either vehicle repaints, an order being finished in the coming weeks or driver shortages. Unless something dramatic comes up there's nothing else to really feature on here.

There is no obligation to post anything on a daily basis. Sometimes threads just go quiet when there isn't much happening!

 

[Tom Gallacher]

It’s a bit tedious when its the only conversation every day

It's important to the member who posted so that's good enough for me. There's no obligation to open any posts. If it irritates you then pass on it. There's plenty of threads on here that I don't open.

 

[PaulMc7]

It's important to the member who posted so that's good enough for me. There's no obligation to open any posts. If it irritates you then pass on it. There's plenty of threads on here that I don't open.

Thank you for this. I'm the same. Not everything is for me but I enjoy reading different viewpoints on different topics. I barely knew which type of bus was what when I first began to use this site. It's good to learn.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Thank you for this. I'm the same. Not everything is for me but I enjoy reading different viewpoints on different topics. I barely knew which type of bus was what when I first began to use this site. It's good to learn.

If you're concerned about the app you would be best sending your comments to First's customer service department because mentioning it on here will do absolutely hee-haw I'm afraid.

Same with your posts every few days asking how many drivers First Glasgow are short of. Asking that question on here achieves nothing as it's such a changeable situation.

Oh sorry Edinburgh includes this now, I’ve used their dual-door buses there and by now most know exactly how they work. It’s not perfect but it works.

And they've since reverted back to ordering single door buses following the departure of their previous CEO who was rather headstrong and didn't listen to people.

 

[PaulMc7]

If you're concerned about the app you would be best sending your comments to First's customer service department because mentioning it on here will do absolutely hee-haw I'm afraid.

Same with your posts every few days asking how many drivers First Glasgow are short of. Asking that question on here achieves nothing as it's such a changeable situation.

Who's to say I hadn't done that before I mentioned it on here? Anything mentioned on here will do nothing effectively but there's zero wrong with discussion. The forum wouldn't exist otherwise.

As for the driver thing, I don't expect 100% accurate counts as that changes on a daily basis but on other threads, members have provided rough figures so no harm in asking on here incase someone has an answer.

Personally, I'd say it's still in the hundreds but that's based on my experience on cancelled buses I've gone for which isn't enough to really go on so I tried to find more information to go with that.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

If they’ve worked in London for decades why has it never caught on elsewhere?

Comparing London's bus operation with anywhere else in the UK is like comparing apples with oranges.

How much money would it cost Glasgow City Council and the surrounding councils to upgrade their bus stop and street furniture infrastructure to accommodate such vehicles?

And what about the additional running cost per vehicle as you've got to factor in the possibility of more things going wrong with the addition of the centre door particularly in an electrical sense.

As for the driver thing, I don't expect 100% accurate counts as that changes on a daily basis but on other forums, members have provided rough figures so no harm in asking on here incase someone has an answer.

Drivers probably wouldn't know the answer neither. All we know is that there is an acute nationwide shortage of drivers and I would say the responsibility for this mess lies collectively with the whole industry and not just individual operators.

 

[PaulMc7]

Drivers probably wouldn't know the answer either. All we know is that there is an acute nationwide shortage of driver and I would say the responsibility for this mess lies collectively with the whole industry and not just individual operators.

I agree with that. Most drivers know if the bus ahead of them is off at most from experience. I fully agree with that to be fair coupled with Covid and Brexit. The reality is a lot of people have absolutely no idea just how much damage they've done combined with other issues. Having now worked in recruitment, it's much worse than even I thought it was and I thought it was bad beforehand.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

If you're concerned about the app you would be best sending your comments to First's customer service department because mentioning it on here will do absolutely hee-haw I'm afraid.

Same with your posts every few days asking how many drivers First Glasgow are short of. Asking that question on here achieves nothing as it's such a changeable situation.

If we only asked questions that could be answered we would have very few posts.

Whether a bus turns up or not only affects me in that I might get a sale for some of the parts I do but for PaulMc7 it's an important part of his day. Without people like him I wouldn't have a business.

So, cut the guy some slack. At least he actually uses buses which is probably a lot more than most posters on here do. And I include myself in that.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

If we only asked questions that could be answered we would have very few posts.

That is true however we see the same questions on the app and driver shortage most days on this thread.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

That is true however we see the same questions on the app and driver shortage most days on this thread.

You need to applaud his persistence then

Seriously though, is there no-one on here that is in a position within First to actually provide some form of answer. I'd wager that somewhere within the management structure at First there is a dept that looks at social media sites such as this to gather information on how the travelling public feel. If there's not then they are missing out on a lot of important feedback that you don't get from sending out some smart arse to a bus stop with a clipboard.

I was visited a good few years ago by a couple of students (I assume that they were doing transport studies) that were conducting research on behalf of Firstbus. They told me all about what First were looking to do in respect of branding, timetables, accessibility, cleanliness etc but I stopped them in their tracks and said "there's a number of things that are more important than what colour a bus is. In order of priority:

1. The bus has to turn up.
2. When it turns up it needs to have space for additional passengers.
3. If, when it turns up, it is fully accessible that's a bonus.
4. If, when it turns up, it is nice and clean that's another bonus.

However, points 2,3 and 4 count for diddly squat if point 1 doesn't happen.

Sort that out and you'll be heading in the right direction"

Whether that was relayed back to their masters or not is not known.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Hi thanks so much for the reply!

If you would be able to post the downloaded copy you have then that would be very much appreciated.

The Lanarkshire map is slightly better, but yeah no decent Glasgow network map for some reason.
The diagrammatic map sounds cool! The size of greater Glasgow compared to Glasgow City would make a good map more difficult I'd think.

As per the other companies, that's a bit of a shame but unsurprising. I think companies undervalue the usefulness of network diagram maps.

Once again thanks so much

I definitely still use a map. It’s good to see which bus goes where.

I've finally managed to get my semi-diagrammatic map to a stage where it is acceptable to release.
It was supposed to be a "quick and dirty" effort; I've certainly managed the "dirty" but unfortunately not so much the "quick"!

You can download or view the file here, or go to this address if the link doesn't work: https://github.com/40414148/Transport-Published/raw/main/Maps/GreaterGlasgowBusNetwork.pdf
Alternatively click here to view the file on GitHub; this will let you see when it was last updated.
These links will always take you to the most recent file version and will never change for as long as the file remains online.

The map shows weekday daytime routes which has a frequency of hourly or better, across all operators.
There will be many errors that I haven't caught, if you see any let me know.
Issues I'm aware of:
- Some areas of one-way routes are missing arrows.
- Citylink service 900 missing from Baillieston area.
Some elements look very rough due to the conversion from SVG to PDF, I'm going to fix these when I get the time.
I'm going to add in the missing route termini and add in the Paisley and Lanarkshire area when I get the time.
I've put an image preview below, note that this may not be updated when I release new versions of the map.

 

[XAM2175]

The map shows weekday daytime routes which has a frequency of hourly or better, across all operators.
There will be many errors that I haven't caught, if you see any let me know.

It's a good bit of work!

The main issue I've spotted is that the X10's colour is very very hard to spot, haha.
Also the 90's one-way section on Maryhill Road heading towards Partick isn't shown, but that could be covered by your existing note on one-way sections.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

You need to applaud his persistence then

Yes of course, you cannot deny that.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

I've finally managed to get my semi-diagrammatic map to a stage where it is acceptable to release.
It was supposed to be a "quick and dirty" effort; I've certainly managed the "dirty" but unfortunately not so much the "quick"!

You can download or view the file here, or go to this address if the link doesn't work: https://github.com/40414148/Transport-Published/raw/main/Maps/GreaterGlasgowBusNetwork.pdf
Alternatively click here to view the file on GitHub; this will let you see when it was last updated.
These links will always take you to the most recent file version and will never change for as long as the file remains online.

The map shows weekday daytime routes which has a frequency of hourly or better, across all operators.
There will be many errors that I haven't caught, if you see any let me know.
Issues I'm aware of:
- Some areas of one-way routes are missing arrows.
- Citylink service 900 missing from Baillieston area.
Some elements look very rough due to the conversion from SVG to PDF, I'm going to fix these when I get the time.
I'm going to add in the missing route termini and add in the Paisley and Lanarkshire area when I get the time.
I've put an image preview below, note that this may not be updated when I release new versions of the map.
View attachment 122453

The only issue I noticed is that the x19 motorway section is missing.

 

[adrock1976]

I've finally managed to get my semi-diagrammatic map to a stage where it is acceptable to release.
It was supposed to be a "quick and dirty" effort; I've certainly managed the "dirty" but unfortunately not so much the "quick"!

You can download or view the file here, or go to this address if the link doesn't work: https://github.com/40414148/Transport-Published/raw/main/Maps/GreaterGlasgowBusNetwork.pdf
Alternatively click here to view the file on GitHub; this will let you see when it was last updated.
These links will always take you to the most recent file version and will never change for as long as the file remains online.

The map shows weekday daytime routes which has a frequency of hourly or better, across all operators.
There will be many errors that I haven't caught, if you see any let me know.
Issues I'm aware of:
- Some areas of one-way routes are missing arrows.
- Citylink service 900 missing from Baillieston area.
Some elements look very rough due to the conversion from SVG to PDF, I'm going to fix these when I get the time.
I'm going to add in the missing route termini and add in the Paisley and Lanarkshire area when I get the time.
I've put an image preview below, note that this may not be updated when I release new versions of the map.

A reasonable effort here with the above points noted.

This has got me thinking that there was a UK wide "Britain by Bus" campaign that was possibly run in partnership with Tourist Boards. When I was in my final Academic year at secondary school when I was still in the West Midlands, I remember picking up a leaflet in Birmingham that had tick boxes for various areas for further info. One of those was Strathclyde/Greater Glasgow (I cannot remember exactly) amongst a few other areas I had selected (this was back in 1993).

I remember receiving (either from SPT or Greater Glasgow Tourist Board) a paper map of the bus network in the Glasgow area with the bus routes listed on the other side. This had the routes of Strathclyde Buses and KCB, and also if my memory has not gone fuzzy, I recall the 2xx routes that ran to Motherwell, Hamilton, etc ran from the now former bus station at Anderston Cross.

Did the Anderston Cross bus station have KCB exclusively using it, or did both KCB and Strathclyde Buses use it jointly between them?

 

[Tom Gallacher]

A reasonable effort here with the above points noted.

This has got me thinking that there was a UK wide "Britain by Bus" campaign that was possibly run in partnership with Tourist Boards. When I was in my final Academic year at secondary school when I was still in the West Midlands, I remember picking up a leaflet in Birmingham that had tick boxes for various areas for further info. One of those was Strathclyde/Greater Glasgow (I cannot remember exactly) amongst a few other areas I had selected (this was back in 1993).

I remember receiving (either from SPT or Greater Glasgow Tourist Board) a paper map of the bus network in the Glasgow area with the bus routes listed on the other side. This had the routes of Strathclyde Buses and KCB, and also if my memory has not gone fuzzy, I recall the 2xx routes that ran to Motherwell, Hamilton, etc ran from the now former bus station at Anderston Cross.

Did the Anderston Cross bus station have KCB exclusively using it, or did both KCB and Strathclyde Buses use it jointly between them?

It was exclusively used by SBG companies. Strathclyde Buses being the old Glasgow Corporation Transport never had access to it (as far as I can remember) and (again from memory) Kelvin Central operated from Buchanan St. The only companies that used Anderston were Central, Clydeside and Western.

 

[KGGXXXY]

I've finally managed to get my semi-diagrammatic map to a stage where it is acceptable to release.
It was supposed to be a "quick and dirty" effort; I've certainly managed the "dirty" but unfortunately not so much the "quick"!

You can download or view the file here, or go to this address if the link doesn't work: https://github.com/40414148/Transport-Published/raw/main/Maps/GreaterGlasgowBusNetwork.pdf
Alternatively click here to view the file on GitHub; this will let you see when it was last updated.
These links will always take you to the most recent file version and will never change for as long as the file remains online.

The map shows weekday daytime routes which has a frequency of hourly or better, across all operators.
There will be many errors that I haven't caught, if you see any let me know.
Issues I'm aware of:
- Some areas of one-way routes are missing arrows.
- Citylink service 900 missing from Baillieston area.
Some elements look very rough due to the conversion from SVG to PDF, I'm going to fix these when I get the time.
I'm going to add in the missing route termini and add in the Paisley and Lanarkshire area when I get the time.
I've put an image preview below, note that this may not be updated when I release new versions of the map.
View attachment 122453

Excellent effort, only things I have spotted is wrong destinations in the South 49- South Park Village/Darnley (not Govanhill), and 57A - Kennishead (not Mosspark),

 

[Bus Lightyear]

It was exclusively used by SBG companies. Strathclyde Buses being the old Glasgow Corporation Transport never had access to it (as far as I can remember) and (again from memory) Kelvin Central operated from Buchanan St. The only companies that used Anderston were Central, Clydeside and Western.

A reasonable effort here with the above points noted.

This has got me thinking that there was a UK wide "Britain by Bus" campaign that was possibly run in partnership with Tourist Boards. When I was in my final Academic year at secondary school when I was still in the West Midlands, I remember picking up a leaflet in Birmingham that had tick boxes for various areas for further info. One of those was Strathclyde/Greater Glasgow (I cannot remember exactly) amongst a few other areas I had selected (this was back in 1993).

I remember receiving (either from SPT or Greater Glasgow Tourist Board) a paper map of the bus network in the Glasgow area with the bus routes listed on the other side. This had the routes of Strathclyde Buses and KCB, and also if my memory has not gone fuzzy, I recall the 2xx routes that ran to Motherwell, Hamilton, etc ran from the now former bus station at Anderston Cross.

Did the Anderston Cross bus station have KCB exclusively using it, or did both KCB and Strathclyde Buses use it jointly between them?

Pre-deregulation, I remember it mainly being Western and Central operating from Anderston. In later years Kelvin Scottish or it could've been Kelvin Central Buses by that time withdrew the 36, 40, 50, 70, 72, 75, 84 and possibly other services from Buchanan and extended them to Anderston until its closure in the mid 90s.

Anderston was a hellhole of a bus station and we should all be grateful for its demise.

 

[GusB]

If anyone wishes to continue the discussion about Anderston bus station, feel free to do so in a separate thread. It's not relevant to current First Glasgow operations.

 

[Rory N]

I have seen a while back that First Glasgow ordered at least 2 second hand E200’s, they have been sitting in first Glasgow livery for a while now. Does anyone know when they will enter service and where are they going with in the network?

 

[PaulMc7]

I do feel sorry for First when trying to schedule timetables in and around the City Centre because it seems to be an inconsistent minefield at the moment with how long buses are taking to navigate it.

I've noticed it especially with the 1s as a lot of them now seem to reach Oswald Street 3-4 minutes early and even buses getting to Union Street early coming from further up the City Centre isn't too rare these days.

There are also some occasions where a bus can get to the beginning of the City Centre bang on time but be 10-15 minutes late by the time they get out of it. The 38s and 57s are bad for this due to the nature of having to cut across George Square and up onto Cathedral Street.

I don't even really think it's something First can really fix because it's so inconsistent due to luck with traffic lights and being blocked from pulling away from stops by other buses at times. Some rerouting could maybe help with the longer routes but I don't even know what the best way would be in all honesty.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Anyone know when the next batch of E400EVs/E200EVs are due to be delivered?

 

[adrock1976]

It was exclusively used by SBG companies. Strathclyde Buses being the old Glasgow Corporation Transport never had access to it (as far as I can remember) and (again from memory) Kelvin Central operated from Buchanan St. The only companies that used Anderston were Central, Clydeside and Western.

Pre-deregulation, I remember it mainly being Western and Central operating from Anderston. In later years Kelvin Scottish or it could've been Kelvin Central Buses by that time withdrew the 36, 40, 50, 70, 72, 75, 84 and possibly other services from Buchanan and extended them to Anderston until its closure in the mid 90s.

Anderston was a hellhole of a bus station and we should all be grateful for its demise.

Many thanks both of you.

 

[route101]

Anyone know when the next batch of E400EVs/E200EVs are due to be delivered?

Hopefully we more of the E400EVS than the E200EVs!

From what I seen yesterday branded buses are not on their respective routes.

 

[tbtc]

The map shows weekday daytime routes which has a frequency of hourly or better, across all operators.
There will be many errors that I haven't caught

Great map, a thousand times better than anything I could have done!

I thought it looked quite thinned out at first, as if you’d forgotten to put a number of services on it but… no, that does look comprehensive (in line with the hourly definition etc you’ve stuck to), it’s just that First really have cut/ simplified their services that much!

I know you know it’s not the finished article, if I make one suggestion then I’d ask for more clarity of the M8/M80 situation - you can’t cram on all of the services heading to Cumbernauld etc but having just a black line with no explanation may confuse people unfamiliar with the routes (also, I’d swap the colour of the First 19 to something more colourful, since a black route running parallel with the motorways makes it look like another bit of motorway)

It reinforces my belief that First have picked some terrible fires to be cross city though, eg there are a few relatively short routes that terminate in the city centre (or are fairly short on both sides of the city centre) but then there are the 3 and the 6 which seem to be a competition for “which long and unreliable routes on one side of the city cab we stitch onto a similarly long and unreliable route on the far side” (yet services like the X4 and the 5 terminate in the city centre). Even if there’s a bit of cross city demand you’d think it made more sense to have the Castlemilk service run cross-city rather than one that’s come all the way from East Kilbride ?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Hopefully we more of the E400EVS than the E200EVs!

From what I seen yesterday branded buses are not on their respective routes.

I believe there’s only a small number of E200EVs to arrive from the last order. It’s mainly E400EVs. That’s not including the recent E200EV order for Scotstoun which won’t be until 2023 at least.

I believe the route branding is being discontinued and with good reason. Far too many routes were branded up and Glasgow is way too big to do it properly. It’s better that all buses are uniform so that they can be used on any route without confusion. I see a few buses have been debranded but the majority of 75 and 38 branded E400MMCs need to be debranded not to mention the 61, 65 and remaining 34/34A E200MMCs.

 

[Brimfulofasha]

There are also some occasions where a bus can get to the beginning of the City Centre bang on time but be 10-15 minutes late by the time they get out of it. The 38s and 57s are bad for this due to the nature of having to cut across George Square and up onto Cathedral Street.

As a result of the bus gate at West George Street, together with closing half of George Square to traffic, I would say that's now one of the quietest sections of the city centre. There are still all the lights but, apart from at the very busiest times, West George Street, George Square, Dundas Street, North Hanover Street and North Frederick Street are all pretty much free of traffic. As a pedestrian, I can almost always saunter across without much delay. I suppose that was the intention and, in this case, it appears to have worked.

 

[PaulMc7]

I believe there’s only a small number of E200EVs to arrive from the last order. It’s mainly E400EVs. That’s not including the recent E200EV order for Scotstoun which won’t be until 2023 at least.

I believe the route branding is being discontinued and with good reason. Far too many routes were branded up and Glasgow is way too big to do it properly. It’s better that all buses are uniform so that they can be used on any route without confusion. I see a few buses have been debranded but the majority of 75 and 38 branded E400MMCs need to be debranded not to mention the 61, 65 and remaining 34/34A E200MMCs.

I'd imagine it'll be well into 2023 by the time everything could be debranded with just how much needs repainted. I'd imagine they're not overly staffed in that area either given how everything everywhere seems to be. I'm not overly familiar with their working conditions mind you so I may be wrong.

Great map, a thousand times better than anything I could have done!

I thought it looked quite thinned out at first, as if you’d forgotten to put a number of services on it but… no, that does look comprehensive (in line with the hourly definition etc you’ve stuck to), it’s just that First really have cut/ simplified their services that much!

I know you know it’s not the finished article, if I make one suggestion then I’d ask for more clarity of the M8/M80 situation - you can’t cram on all of the services heading to Cumbernauld etc but having just a black line with no explanation may confuse people unfamiliar with the routes (also, I’d swap the colour of the First 19 to something more colourful, since a black route running parallel with the motorways makes it look like another bit of motorway)

It reinforces my belief that First have picked some terrible fires to be cross city though, eg there are a few relatively short routes that terminate in the city centre (or are fairly short on both sides of the city centre) but then there are the 3 and the 6 which seem to be a competition for “which long and unreliable routes on one side of the city cab we stitch onto a similarly long and unreliable route on the far side” (yet services like the X4 and the 5 terminate in the city centre). Even if there’s a bit of cross city demand you’d think it made more sense to have the Castlemilk service run cross-city rather than one that’s come all the way from East Kilbride ?

I've always thought over 90 mins is too long for a route here, to be quite honest. Other services that are shorter than that are horrendous for reliability too but deep down you need to give services a chance to be reliable and First aren't particularly good at that.

The 7 and 75 in particular are slightly shorter but both have been horrendously unreliable for years from experience. The 5 is similar to that although it's more to do with the fact it's a circular route in Castlemilk and not a standard terminus and recovery time setup. The 46 is also quite bad to the point it's fairly common for 2 to come together despite them being every 30 minutes and the full route is just over 90 minutes.

 

[adrock1976]

I believe there’s only a small number of E200EVs to arrive from the last order. It’s mainly E400EVs. That’s not including the recent E200EV order for Scotstoun which won’t be until 2023 at least.

I believe the route branding is being discontinued and with good reason. Far too many routes were branded up and Glasgow is way too big to do it properly. It’s better that all buses are uniform so that they can be used on any route without confusion. I see a few buses have been debranded but the majority of 75 and 38 branded E400MMCs need to be debranded not to mention the 61, 65 and remaining 34/34A E200MMCs.

I cannot remember if it was several pages ago in this thread or if it was in one of the other West of Scotland threads, but regarding route branding, the only routes in Glasgow that would be branded are the 500 that runs Buchanan - Airport and Stagecoach (Ayr) X19 Clyde Fastlink Easterhouse - New Southern General.

No other routes are to be branded - after all, there are no branded routes in London.